Does Detroit have too much single family housing?

**boater4life** · December-26-14, 05:21 PM

When you see a view of Detroit like on the news from a helicopter, you can see a relatively small area of downtown detroit with skyscrapers and such. Then outside of that small circle is just rows and rows of single family homes. Do you think it would be in the city's benefit to have more apartment buildings and condos. Seems like the time would be now to do that with all the homes being bulldozed down to nothing. It also seems to me like up and coming/newer cities are thriving with the skyscraper type buildings and less single family homes.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-26-14, 05:24 PM

I'm not so sure about hi-rise buildings, but at least mid-rise and multiple family structures in close in areas, such as Brush Park, to create much needed density.

**mtburb** · December-26-14, 06:00 PM

Heading north on Woodward out of downtown, there are a number of mid-rise buildings, then just past Grand Boulevard it turns into one-story commercial development.

Can't say the same for the other radials, though, for the most part.

Then again, there are a small number of other major cities that have, to a lesser extent, that sharp of a cut from skyscrapers to one-story buildings-only examples I can think of are San Diego, Los Angeles, parts of Atlanta and Miami.

**Hypestyles** · December-26-14, 06:01 PM

There needs to be a more diverse housing mixture overall. During Detroit's "boom years", single-family homes became the standard, apparently. But until most of the blighted structures are cleared out- not just homes but the derelict storefronts and former commercial buildings-- it's unclear exactly what neighborhoods would be ripe for all-new alternative housing rehabs or new buildings. I'll stop short of endorsing "skyscraper size" developments [[outside of downtown) since, well, the hemorrhaging of the outer neighborhoods continues and it would be counterproductive to build a "high-rise" apartment tower somewhere and occupancy doesn't fill up right away. Also, I suspect that zoning issues would have to be addressed for the broader neighborhoods to have really-high newer structures built, since, I suspect, the taller structures in the outer neighborhoods were likely constructed only as late as, say, the 1940s or 50s at the latest.

**Bham1982** · December-26-14, 06:20 PM

If you believe in supply and demand, then you would think the opposite were true.

Generally speaking, over time in Metro Detroit, single family homes have been a much better investment than condo/coop homes, or multifamily rental properties. This has always been a very, very tough market for condos/coops, even in the best locations [[witness the empty condos in Birmingham and Royal Oak, or the still unsold Book Cadillac units.).

**mtburb** · December-26-14, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

If you believe in supply and demand, then you would think the opposite were true.

Generally speaking, over time in Metro Detroit, single family homes have been a much better investment than condo/coop homes, or multifamily rental properties. This has always been a very, very tough market for condos/coops, even in the best locations [[witness the empty condos in Birmingham and Royal Oak, or the still unsold Book Cadillac units.).

And the reason why Labadie Park in Wyandotte switched from condos to separate houses after the first buildings were erected.

**Bham1982** · December-26-14, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

And the reason why Labadie Park in Wyandotte switched from condos to separate houses after the first buildings were erected.

I can tell you that in Birmingham, there are regular bidding wars on single family homes, often selling above asking. As for condos, they will eventually sell, but usually at deep discounts.

A number of out-of-town developers tried building extreme high-end condos in downtown Birmingham over the last decade, and pretty much all the projects have failed.

The only one that has done well is a project called the Willits which, while very nice, was not extreme in unit size or amenities, and specifically targeted the affluent empty nester, winter in Naples crowd, and offered homes for a million or less [[while the out-of-towners have $2 and $3 million units sitting empty).

**Dumpling** · December-26-14, 07:37 PM

The brothers of the immigrant household next door in Warrendale, Detroit have found jobs in Texas, I hear, and would like their Detroit family members to come and help so they can all go in on a house down there. Not sure what kind of house - will the Tall Shanghai roosters
next door have to stay in Michigan, or will they be able to go to Texas too? [[Sweet Betsy from Pike melody here).
I like my cookie cutter Detroit single family home. It reminds me much of my Berkley relatives'
cookie cutter single family home that they lovingly improved over the years. The Berkley
uncle had to spend many years in a nursing home. The aunt moved to a condo - she retired from the house upkeep as well as her job.
When shopping for my cookie cutter single family home, of which there were
market depressingly many many, I tried but couldn't find one that was handicap accessible throughout. The houses were all built before the handicap accessible era.

**mtburb** · December-26-14, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I can tell you that in Birmingham, there are regular bidding wars on single family homes, often selling above asking. As for condos, they will eventually sell, but usually at deep discounts.

A number of out-of-town developers tried building extreme high-end condos in downtown Birmingham over the last decade, and pretty much all the projects have failed.

The only one that has done well is a project called the Willits which, while very nice, was not extreme in unit size or amenities, and specifically targeted the affluent empty nester, winter in Naples crowd, and offered homes for a million or less [[while the out-of-towners have $2 and $3 million units sitting empty).

Have there been other attempts to build Naples/Daytona Beach/Miami Beach-style condos anywhere else in Metro Detroit?

And are there any forces or obstacles that are preventing a Manhattanization of Detroit?

**Chicago48** · December-26-14, 09:12 PM

Yes, considering that Detroit has lost its population and there are no longer large familes. There are too many single family homes. There needs to be apartments and condo apartment and apartment communities to bring people closer together.

**48202** · December-26-14, 09:48 PM

Detroit needs more single family housing.
Detroit needs more families.

**Hypestyles** · December-26-14, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by 48202

Detroit needs more single family housing.
Detroit needs more families.

they aren't coming. Singles are, and most tend to cluster in downtown, midtown and corktown, not the outlying neighborhoods.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-27-14, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I can tell you that in Birmingham, there are regular bidding wars on single family homes, often selling above asking. As for condos, they will eventually sell, but usually at deep discounts.

A number of out-of-town developers tried building extreme high-end condos in downtown Birmingham over the last decade, and pretty much all the projects have failed.

The only one that has done well is a project called the Willits which, while very nice, was not extreme in unit size or amenities, and specifically targeted the affluent empty nester, winter in Naples crowd, and offered homes for a million or less [[while the out-of-towners have $2 and $3 million units sitting empty).

Some homes in certain parts of Birmingham are ridiculously priced. For instance, in the 14 Mile and Woodward area, they have numerous, small [[800 to 1400 sq ft) homes listed for $150,000 dollars and up. I see the same type of homes in older areas of Detroit, that cost a 1/4 of that, not to mention high ass property taxes. I know...location..location.. location, still doesn't make it right.

**sumas** · December-27-14, 12:32 AM

New Detroit housing puzzles me. I live in what I pretty much call old Detroit. We actually have one of a few handful of a single family homes. These homes were built pretty much built from 1880 to 1916. Duplesxes galore but the flats look like single homes one entry door type setups. Pretty much built for large and extended families. A good case in point is on the next block, looks like a large single dwelling but actually has 6 separate units. Wasn't subdivided just built that way.

**sumas** · December-27-14, 12:48 AM

New housing in our area is mostly town houses at market rate 230k to 280k. Very nice by the way and elevations [[exterior appearance) very in sync withthe old homes. All sold.

There used to be what I guess is called row housing all gone but one which is being rehabbed. Maybe 12 units ?

Then we have what I call the u snap back low income housing duplexes. Kind of cute semi victorian facade but suspect they will look like shit in twenty years. All occupied.

Same type housing on Alter and also Wayburn in Morningside. Mostly empty and boarded. Why does one community new builts fail and another seems thriving. Trust me I am not complaining the thriving one is down the street from me, great people good block club parties too. Honestly I really am clueless.

**sumas** · December-27-14, 01:19 AM

The proliferation of single family homes really kind of started after WWII. Homes for returning vets. We lived in one, you know, the brick bungalow two bedrooms down and a second floor that could be finished, until I was ten. Cost new was $8500. When they bought there was still a working farm down the way. I remember side roads being dirt with ditches and the freeway being built that promoted urban sprawl. I do not remember the farm. Eight mile had tons of truck farmers and we hunted pheasant in what is now Warren.

Really wish Detroit had established a green zone. Up not out has been my motto for decades. Unfortunately my opinions have little to do with public policy

**Dan Wesson** · December-27-14, 04:58 AM

If you reduce single family housing you reduce the biggest source of equity for the average american. Albeit a financially crappy way to save. You lose a big tax write off that young families appreciate. It happens to be one of the largest sources of GDP out there and way, way more than a few average folks support their families building, maintaining, selling and financing single family dwellings.

Do we want to be a nation of renters?

**Hermod** · December-27-14, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

The proliferation of single family homes really kind of started after WWII. Homes for returning vets. We lived in one, you know, the brick bungalow two bedrooms down and a second floor that could be finished, until I was ten. Cost new was $8500. When they bought there was still a working farm down the way. I remember side roads being dirt with ditches and the freeway being built that promoted urban sprawl. I do not remember the farm. Eight mile had tons of truck farmers and we hunted pheasant in what is now Warren.

Really wish Detroit had established a green zone. Up not out has been my motto for decades. Unfortunately my opinions have little to do with public policy

What I grew up in. After the war, my father used his mustering out pay to finish the top floor into two bedrooms as the family grew in size. Yorkshire and Grayton cross streets were still oiled gravel with ditches. I think my father paid $3500 for the place in 1941 just before he got called to active duty [[ROTC commission from Mich St in 1935). .

**sumas** · December-27-14, 08:25 AM

I lived on Canyon near Balduck till 10, than Harvard near Mack. Sounds like maybe you lived north of 94? Our first home [[my husband and I ) was on Lansdown. Did you go to Finney or Denby or private school? Finney was always trying to steal Denby's anchor before homecoming. They never quite succeeded but came close a few times. The police were genuinely amused. Todays world they would have been arrested and booked for vandalism. Sometimes I think we have lost a sense of humor.

**sumas** · December-27-14, 08:44 AM

My Dad bought in 48 on Canyon, same year my oldest sister was born. My Grandfather and Dad finshed the second story. Actually I never knew any of my Grandparents which seems sad. My sisters shared the upstairs bedroom and I was so envious of them. They were envious of me because I had my own room downstairs. Sold that house for 15K and bought the home on Harvard for 28K when my brother, quite a surprise baby was born.

**Hermod** · December-27-14, 09:39 AM

I went to Denby for a year, then we moved to the country north of Rochester. Finney didn't exist then and Denby was horribly overcrowded with 4,500 students so we went to school in shifts with eleven class periods during the day. We lived on Nottingham between Yorkshire and Grayton. I went to Anthony Wayne Elementary K-6 [[Lakepointe and Courvlle), was bussed to Andrew Jackson Intermediate for 7-8 [[Marlborough and Phillip), then to Denby for 9. We lived on Nottingham 1941-1954.

Nottingham about 1951, heading off for church.Attachment 25353

**Hypestyles** · December-27-14, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

If you reduce single family housing you reduce the biggest source of equity for the average american. Albeit a financially crappy way to save. You lose a big tax write off that young families appreciate. It happens to be one of the largest sources of GDP out there and way, way more than a few average folks support their families building, maintaining, selling and financing single family dwellings.

Do we want to be a nation of renters?

The unquestioned narrative we've accepted of building "wealth" via home ownership in this era of subprime loans, job instability and flatlining wages is a dubious proposition at best.

**Dan Wesson** · December-27-14, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

The unquestioned narrative we've accepted of building "wealth" via home ownership in this era of subprime loans, job instability and flatlining wages is a dubious proposition at best.

Agreed... but, Era's come and go.

Hopefully...

**Wesley Mouch** · December-27-14, 12:57 PM

No. Detroit does not have too much single family housing.

I think it is a great advantge that Detroit is one of the few 'affordable' cities in the USA.

**Bham1982** · December-27-14, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Some homes in certain parts of Birmingham are ridiculously priced. For instance, in the 14 Mile and Woodward area, they have numerous, small [[800 to 1400 sq ft) homes listed for $150,000 dollars and up. I see the same type of homes in older areas of Detroit, that cost a 1/4 of that, not to mention high ass property taxes. I know...location..location.. location, still doesn't make it right.

Those tiny homes you see for sale are tear-down sites. The sales price would actually be higher if they were vacant lots. I also doubt they're going for $150k; the dumpy bungalows close to 14 mile probably go closer to 300k [[but again, the dumpy bungalow is besides the point, it's the land).