Restoration at Woodward and Baltimore in Detroit
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanDawg View Post
    so wait if there's 6 being added currently, and half the bridge is still up. wouldn't that bring the total up to around 10? up from 8?

    not sure how many are still currently up i'm just guessing.
    Yea. I was kinda of lazy in explaining it, but the half of the bridge still up has 3 pillars supporting it. Assuming they rebuild it unchanged or with more (or even less) then it probably means the bridge is going to be holding weight differently, I would think.

  2. #52

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    Another Pizza Pizza Building in front of Woodward with hollow mega parking lots in the back. Sounds like a thinking of Mike Illitch.

  3. #53

    Default What's the big deal

    They're moving from the Fox to a new building. I don't see what the controversy is all about. They're already downtown.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago48 View Post
    They're moving from the Fox to a new building. I don't see what the controversy is all about. They're already downtown.
    They're also consolidating operations from other areas as well. I believe Farmington and a couple other places were mentioned, plus they are going to add people as well.

    Great news overall, but I think we are all collectively waiting for the announcements on other major buildings in the "entertainment district" (United Artists, Life Building, Fine Arts Facade).

  5. #55

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    there was a little casears in the Milliner Center for years, it mite still be there, didnt have the $5.00 pizza though

  6. #56

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    Exactly what Mikeg19 said.

    It's great news. There's concern-- a better word than controversy-- re the overall development of the area: will Olympia fulfill its promises, and will they tear down more buildings in doing so?

    The only "controversy" with this recent news is whether they are gonna put Little Caeser's signs on the Fox Theatre. While I think that's a scary prospect, I doubt they actually intend it.

  7. #57

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    With the Illiches and Gilbert sinking a bunch of dough and creating all the interest in rebuilding the downtown area to attract new residents and visitors, I have yet to see any interest toward public safety. There once was 7 firehouses with 12 active in service fire companies and not to forget the EMS units that used to serve the downtown & near downtown areas. Now there is one with a single engine company at Park & Montcalm. Take a good look at whats been built or revamped and whats going to be built. Given the shortage of daily manning and fire company brown outs, where will the needed responders be coming from should a normally busy day or major incident occur else where in the city simultaneously causing a shortage of units to respond….Just Curious and Just Wondering where the priorities lay

  8. #58

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    Considering how much I can find to dislike about the Ilitch's, I'm actually a bit excited about this. I like the design, too.

    But the pattern of all their past developments still leaves me skeptical. Back when the Fox was restored and Little Caesar's moved some of their employees downtown, a senior official spoke of interest by some of their employees in living downtown. They talked of turning the Detroit Life Building into apartments. Here it is, almost 27 years later, and well...

    I used to like John Gallagher's writing, but where's the journalism? Specifically, there's no mention of public subsidies. How did that question not get asked?
    Last edited by downtownguy; December-11-14 at 01:07 PM.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by birwood View Post
    With the Illiches and Gilbert sinking a bunch of dough and creating all the interest in rebuilding the downtown area to attract new residents and visitors, I have yet to see any interest toward public safety. There once was 7 firehouses with 12 active in service fire companies and not to forget the EMS units that used to serve the downtown & near downtown areas. Now there is one with a single engine company at Park & Montcalm. Take a good look at whats been built or revamped and whats going to be built. Given the shortage of daily manning and fire company brown outs, where will the needed responders be coming from should a normally busy day or major incident occur else where in the city simultaneously causing a shortage of units to respond….Just Curious and Just Wondering where the priorities lay
    For one, it's not the private sector to prioritize public service. That's an entirely different discussion and thread.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownguy View Post
    Considering how much I can find to dislike about the Ilitch's, I'm actually a bit excited about this. I like the design, too.
    I'm in a similar boat, but I think this is more of a play to get what they want with the Eddystone/Park Ave hotels. If this moves the needle even 1% with Council on that issue, shame on them.

  11. #61

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    Downtownguy, my theory is that Gallagher now writes in a generally promotional tone, and in exchange he gets a lot of exclusive scoops-- i.e. yesterday. Occasionally he breaks this mold with a more serious analytical piece.

    Anyway, what question about public subsidies needs to be answered? Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do. Obviously, we should hope for more and the council should have insisted on more.

    Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownguy View Post
    I used to like John Gallagher's writing, but where's the journalism? Specifically, there's no mention of public subsidies. How did that question not get asked?
    Supposedly John Gallagher is an architecture critic, but in reality his job is regurgitating "building-y" press releases.


    But both of those eras gloried in architectural experimentation, which captures something of what the Ilitch family hopes to stress with its new headquarters -- a zest for innovation and energy that will propel forward both a company and its host city.
    That design would have been innovative and energetic in the 70s, except those ideas back then were the result of intellectual developments, and not fuddy duddy obliviousness.

    The family's architectural choices may delight some and infuriate others, but those choices are never dull. And fortunately the Ilitches avoided what may have seemed the easy choice -- a mere repetition or mimicking of what Crane did on the adjacent Fox building nearly a century ago.
    And now that design is the most safe and easy choice possible. "Historical chunk" + "shiny chunk" = "true to its history, reimagines itself for the future" every time. When the historical chunk isn't copying a particular building it's just a generic historical chunk that is either respectful of "context" or "tradition". It's not like there's some controversial design theories being applied here, the infuriating part is that this is the dullest most formulaic corporate architecture possible. Is "But the Ilitch family's architecture ... has been marked by an energetic, even exuberant embrace of design as entertainment." code for "their tourist trap marketing team tells the architects what to do"?

    If John Gallagher didn't want to do any criticism himself he could at least inform readers of what criticisms other people may have. Or at the very least don't mischaracterise or miscontextualize things.


    As far as the design itself (rather than the design attitude) I'd like to know more about the decision to set the building back.

    I also wonder if this is even for real or if it's just the last PR stunt to get people to not mind their demolition plans. If this is real it would have been in the works for a while, and it would have been something concrete and credible they could have added to their over the top arena district announcements/hussling. If they really are expanding and consolidating their HQ that'd be great though, and that lot has been crying for a building for a while now.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanDawg View Post
    Attachment 25145

    Oh wow. The architecture actually really compliments the Fox and Fillmore too! should make people happy!

    This is awesome news!

    (Although the giant little caesars logo is a bit much) still overall i'm ecstatic!
    I agree. I can not think of a better building for that location and a better job of architectural harmony.

    Putting the wrong building there would be an eyesore.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmike76 View Post
    I agree with Detroit. It is happening. I'm glad to see that Illitch is finally moving on some of these properties. I still think that a lot of his recent development plans are smoke and mirrors, but I am encouraged by this.
    I assume the arena and this building will be the first two projects to see shovels in the ground.

    Anyone venture a guess what would be the 3rd new building in the Ilitch development plans?

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    Anyway, what question about public subsidies needs to be answered? Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do. Obviously, we should hope for more and the council should have insisted on more.
    This is a good point. I wonder if this is something they were planning on doing anyway, and they waited to officially do it until after the arena stuff was settled, so that it could count towards their investment totals.

    Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?
    "A Columbia Street neighborhood to be activated with retail and green space" so I'm guessing the building will be the site of some cutting edge "green space" (grass) which will "activate" the "neighborhood" (parking lots and abandoned buildings).

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu steve View Post
    I agree. I can not think of a better building for that location and a better job of architectural harmony.

    Putting the wrong building there would be an eyesore.
    And for once not everyone is complaining about a bland cookie-cutter design, which is notable in and of itself.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast View Post
    And for once not everyone is complaining about a bland cookie-cutter design, which is notable in and of itself.
    Agreed.... this may not please the "innovative" crowd...but I can live with this design. I do like the nod to C. Howard Crane's original Fox Building design... and when people see this historic touch, they will know immediately that this is part of the Fox complex.

    As for the setback... yes it does appear to have one. That may have been deliberate. Perhaps when Chuck Forbes sold Mike Ilitch the Fox Building and this parcel... a stipulation may have been included to never build a building that would block the side windows of the Francis Palms Building... and this design appears to satisfy that caveat...
    Last edited by Gistok; December-11-14 at 09:39 PM.

  18. #68

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    [QUOTE=Mackinaw;462145]Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do.QUOTE]

    THAT building is going to cost $70 million? Are the insides going to be covered in 24k gold???? Meridian was going to build their new headquarters at $111 million and it was almost double the size.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Another Pizza Pizza Building in front of Woodward with hollow mega parking lots in the back. Sounds like a thinking of Mike Illitch.
    Ugh!!!

    Ilitch proposes the 'perfect building' for that frontage and you complain.

    What do you propose for that frontage?

    The building looks like it will have some 'depth' so it will eat up some land space behind it.

    Whatever happens behind that building happens, but really doesn't have anything to do with this building.

    This building is the right building for the right location.

  20. #70

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    Awesome. /thread

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by emu steve View Post
    I assume the arena and this building will be the first two projects to see shovels in the ground.

    Anyone venture a guess what would be the 3rd new building in the Ilitch development plans?

    I am going to guess that they may announce the two buildings that will be built across the street from the Fox on the surface lots between the Fox and Comerica...

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit View Post
    I am going to guess that they may announce the two buildings that will be built across the street from the Fox on the surface lots between the Fox and Comerica...
    That would be my guess.

    I could see that AFTER the 2015 Tigers' season (most likely Spring 2016). They will need to build an additional parking garage to replace the lost parking spaces.

    As soon as the parking garage is open for business, work can begin on these buildings.

    2016 will be a year of dramatic change if there are multiple buildings going up by the Fox and the arena. The Ilitches have promised a number of concurrent projects.

    And they have a real vested interest to FIRST build up properties with frontage on Woodward and closest to their other properties, e.g., Comerica, Fox, and the arena site.

    I think most folks would use the word 'prioritize'. Something on Woodward has a higher priority than something on say Cass.
    Last edited by emu steve; December-16-14 at 06:47 AM.

  23. #73

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    I walked by the future home of Little Caesar's headquarters building on Woodward today, between the State and Fox, and noticed that nothing has changed, despite previously announced plans that development would start in spring 2015. Anyone have any updates on the timing of this development?

    1953

  24. #74

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    New update. Supposedly starting construction this summer. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...oreUserAgent=1

  25. #75

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    I don't hate it. The pizza shapes, while a bit gimmicky, aren't that bad and actually pretty subtle. If this building was not for the LC HQ I wouldn't think of it as pizza slices, just very sleek triangles. Not shabby at all.

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