'Fight for $15' wage protests across metro Detroit

[Vic01]

$15 an hour to work at McDonald's... sense or nonsense? what's your vote...

Local workers are participating in protests which call for fast-food chains and other businesses to pay employees a wage of $15 an hour.
The protest is joined by other employees, such as convenience store and healthcare workers.
Fox 2's Maurielle Lue was at the McDonald's in Highland Park, where a protest was scheduled to begin at 6 a.m. She reports more than 200 demonstrators are there.
Some of those involved are part of D15, a coalition of metro Detroit fast food and retail workers, community organizations, labor and faith leaders who fight to raise the minimum wage and for the right to form a union without interference.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/27...-metro-detroit

[Vic01]

More coverage here

"We have 190 cities participating," she said. Workers will walk off their jobs for one shift "and then they'll do a walk-back the next day" to show they're available to work again — although some likely will be fired, McConnell said.
The job action was mainly organized by the SEIU, the big Service Employees International Union.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...nion/19876795/

[mikeg19]

I'm sorry, but these people [[fast food workers) are complete idiots if they think that flipping a burger or running a fryer warrants $15 an hour. EMT's, cops, and firefighters make less or equal to that amount in many communities. How can you equate that to working at a drive thru window? Personally, I hope that these idiots who walk off the job are let go and are replaced with someone who is greatful for a job and is working on bettering themself, not just bitching and moaning about not making enough money.

Fast food jobs WERE NOT intended to be a lifelong career in which you make gobs of money and support a family of 4. These jobs are a stepping stone, a first job, part time work. If you want to make $15 or $20 an hour, here's a thought: do it like everyone else, go to college, learn a trade, acquire some sort of a skill and maximize your earning potential. Don't go out in the street with a sign and demand more money because you think you deserve more.

Now that I've ranted about that, I WILL agree that I believe the minimum wage should be increased, but not to $15 an hour. Lets be reasonable and think $9-$9.50. Something in that arena.

[Scottathew]

Now that I've ranted about that, I WILL agree that I believe the minimum wage should be increased, but not to $15 an hour. Lets be reasonable and think $9-$9.50. Something in that arena.

I'm kind of in the same camp. Fast food isn't going to be lucrative. That's why I quickly moved away from a string of retail jobs as a kid into technology.

Not everyone has the resources, support structure, or lives in a culture that prepares you for college.

I'd like to see the Obama amount get approved, $10.10 an hour. Then have automatic increases tied to inflation. We wouldn't have to revisit the issue for quite a while.

These folks work hard, and we need to make sure that working is much more appealing and rewarding option than welfare.

[mikeg19]

I'm kind of in the same camp. Fast food isn't going to be lucrative. That's why I quickly moved away from a string of retail jobs as a kid into technology.

Not everyone has the resources, support structure, or lives in a culture that prepares you for college.

I'd like to see the Obama amount get approved, $10.10 an hour. Then have automatic increases tied to inflation. We wouldn't have to revisit the issue for quite a while.

These folks work hard, and we need to make sure that working is much more appealing and rewarding option than welfare.

I agree with you, and I'm not trying to dog on the fast food workers, as a lot of them might not be able to afford college and bills just to live. Do I think they make too little? Yes. Should they make more? Absolutely. There are a lot of people in that industry that work ten times harder than people in industries making $80K a year and just floating through life.

But I don't subscribe to the notion that fast food workers [[or a lot of them) don't have the means or resources to move on to better jobs and a better place in life. You can take 8 or 12 week courses in healthcare, truck driving, skilled trades, etc at a minimal cost and get on a path to making a decent wage. Yea, college is incredibly expensive and that's not an option for everyone, but there are other avenues.

We were all sold the idea of the American Dream. Work hard, pay your dues, and good things will come in the form of good jobs, benefits, nice homes and cars, good schools for the kids, a college education. We've quickly realized it was just a facade. And I think a lot of people are pissed about that.

[nain rouge]

We were all sold the idea of the American Dream. Work hard, pay your dues, and good things will come in the form of good jobs, benefits, nice homes and cars, good schools for the kids, a college education. We've quickly realized it was just a facade. And I think a lot of people are pissed about that.

You have to broaden your perspective, man. What if I told that both you AND fast food workers deserve to make more money? I know - crazy, right?

Let's start with fast food. McDonald's is making over a billion dollars a quarter, and if you've been to many McDonald's recently, you'd know that's with the company reinvesting substantially into its restaurants. You think the company can't afford to pay workers a few bucks more?

I've read varying estimates on yearly employee turnover in the fast food industry, but I feel safe saying it's probably close to or above 100%. Now if McDonald's increases the average pay for an employee by 30% - which wouldn't even be that much money in real terms - you don't think turnover will decrease? And if job turnover decreases, that substantially cuts job training costs and should result in a more consistent product.

Who knows, people might even be willing to pay an extra 20 cents for a McNasty! That raise would barely hurt old McDonald's.

On to you: you probably don't work in fast food. You're a big shot, of course. But what if I told you that real wages in most professional fields have stagnated for decades, all while the real wages of CEOs and the profits of companies [[adjusted for inflation) have increased steadily? That, in reality, you're being shafted just as bad as the fast food worker, just on a different scale? In all likelihood, your job could afford to pay you more. If it went under after it wouldn't be because it paid you an extra 5 bucks an hour. It would be the end result of a series of unrelated bad decisions that happened way above your pay scale.

Just think, in America, companies hand out bonuses to executives and pay millions for a TV spots while telling us that there is nothing left in the vault for us. How stupid do we look?

Wake up.

[jackie5275]

We were all sold the idea of the American Dream. Work hard, pay your dues, and good things will come in the form of good jobs, benefits, nice homes and cars, good schools for the kids, a college education. We've quickly realized it was just a facade. And I think a lot of people are pissed about that.

I don't think it was a facade for many people, mostly aged 65 and up. They lived the dream, at least in our area, through auto factory jobs. Those that came before had it hard and saw they missed it because it came after them. Those of us now won't have the dream because it's gone. It probably could've continued without those pesky Reagonomics and dynamics of other economic changes that've happened since.

[BankruptcyGuy]

You have to broaden your perspective, man. What if I told that both you AND fast food workers deserve to make more money? I know - crazy, right?

Let's start with fast food. McDonald's is making over a billion dollars a quarter, and if you've been to many McDonald's recently, you'd know that's with the company reinvesting substantially into its restaurants. You think the company can't afford to pay workers a few bucks more?

McDonald's has 1.5 million employees working for franchises, and around 2 million overall. Take the 4 billion in profits, divide by 2 million workers, and then divide by 2,000 hours in a year. What do you get?

$1/hr.

So, no McDonald's can't "afford" to raise its worker's pay from $7.25 to $15/hr.

I think reaction from Pres. Obama's visit to Zingerman's was pretty instructive. He was touting how great it was that the Zingerman's workers were paid well above the minimum wage [[but it's still way less than $15/hr, but let's move on). In Ann Arbor, not exactly a bastion of conservativism and supply-side economics, the reaction was closer to "well, of course they can afford high wages, they charge $15 for a sandwich!"

[sumas]

You have to broaden your perspective, man. What if I told that both you AND fast food workers deserve to make more money? I know - crazy, right?

Let's start with fast food. McDonald's is making over a billion dollars a quarter, and if you've been to many McDonald's recently, you'd know that's with the company reinvesting substantially into its restaurants. You think the company can't afford to pay workers a few bucks more?

I've read varying estimates on yearly employee turnover in the fast food industry, but I feel safe saying it's probably close to or above 100%. Now if McDonald's increases the average pay for an employee by 30% - which wouldn't even be that much money in real terms - you don't think turnover will decrease? And if job turnover decreases, that substantially cuts job training costs and should result in a more consistent product.

Who knows, people might even be willing to pay an extra 20 cents for a McNasty! That raise would barely hurt old McDonald's.

On to you: you probably don't work in fast food. You're a big shot, of course. But what if I told you that real wages in most professional fields have stagnated for decades, all while the real wages of CEOs and the profits of companies [[adjusted for inflation) have increased steadily? That, in reality, you're being shafted just as bad as the fast food worker, just on a different scale? In all likelihood, your job could afford to pay you more. If it went under after it wouldn't be because it paid you an extra 5 bucks an hour. It would be the end result of a series of unrelated bad decisions that happened way above your pay scale.

Just think, in America, companies hand out bonuses to executives and pay millions for a TV spots while telling us that there is nothing left in the vault for us. How stupid do we look?

Wake up.

I see no reason for Mickey D workers not to make a living wage.

[bailey]

I see no reason for Mickey D workers not to make a living wage.

What's a living wage? Who gets to set what "living" is? How many kids should that "living wage" support"? How much vacation should a McD's employee making a "living" wage be entitled to?

Look, if we're going to have a "minimum wage" it needs to keep pace with inflation...which would put it at 12-ish a hour.

[nain rouge]

McDonald's has 1.5 million employees working for franchises, and around 2 million overall. Take the 4 billion in profits, divide by 2 million workers, and then divide by 2,000 hours in a year. What do you get?

Slams buzzer. Beep-beep. WRONG.

That's about how many people McDonald's employs globally.

I'll use 24/7 Wall St.'s numbers, since they're more or less on the money:

"The math of exactly how much a move up to a $15 an hour minimum wage would total is not simple. McDonald’s and its franchises likely employ 300,000 people in the United States. McDonald’s does not provide an exact number, or separate its own workers from those of its franchises.

[[...)


Here is some simple but not entirely accurate math about what [McDonald's and Walmart] would pay if its hourly minimum wage rose to $15. If 75% of the workers at both companies make $8 and the number rose to $15, Walmart’s expense increase would be $18 billion a year. McDonald’s would be $4.5 billion. In the case of McDonald’s, profits would be cut in half."

Yes, that's a big deal. But McDonald's now gives out over 80 cents a share in dividends, and has almost a BILLION shares. So that's where a lot of the profit is going. Cuts can be made there.

And though we don't have enough data from McDonald's to be sure of the exact cost, the high job turnover at McD's has to eat a lot of money. Not just in job training, but in money lost due to poor service. It's exceedingly likely that a substantially higher wage would reduce job turnover and improve service. That would help offset the added costs.

It could also be that McDonald's might have to charge a nickel or two more for a few products. But customers - particularly Millennials - would probably accept that as the the end result of McDonald's paying a living wage. It could even improve the public's ailing perception of the company. Young adults aren't latching onto McD's like previous generations did. It's junky food and they abuse their workers.

[Armin]

I'm no economist, but I think this proposed increase would ultimately be a bad thing for the workers who are pushing for it. $15/hour is a decent wage. Certainly not great, but somewhat decent. If fast food wages were increased to this level, those jobs would be more sought-after by a lot more people. Much more qualified candidates would apply for those jobs, and they would get them above the less qualified workers who currently have those positions filled. More of those employees would be squeezed out and lose their jobs. It would seem to be a little ironic that the $15/hour would actually result in less job security for them. Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't that seem likely?

[nain rouge]

$15/hour is a decent wage. Certainly not great, but somewhat decent. If fast food wages were increased to this level, those jobs would be more sought-after by a lot more people. Much more qualified candidates would apply for those jobs, and they would get them above the less qualified workers who currently have those positions filled.

Theoretically, it would lift all of our boats. The companies that depend on those "more qualified" candidates would have to raise wages, too, or else lose out on the qualified workforce. And without those workers, your company probably isn't going to last long.

Or, those companies will move everything overseas and America will descend into chaos. CEOs and stockholders will be forced to move to China.

[nain rouge]

Also, in regards to the McDonald's argument, the company also spent nearly a billion in ads last year. So that's another area where cuts could be made.

[Ray1936]

Also, in regards to the McDonald's argument, the company also spent nearly a billion in ads last year. So that's another area where cuts could be made.

Then think of all the people in ad agencies who would lose their jobs. Hey, bottom line, it ain't gonna happen.

[nain rouge]

Yep, we're so conscious about wasteful spending on fast food employees, but god forbid if a couple of ad execs had to take a pay cut...

[1953]

I find it curious that people making $8/hr are trying to set strategy for a major, global corporation. If McDonald's leaders thought it was a good business strategy to pay more [[perhaps to lower turnover, as you suggested) or reduce dividends and profits, they probably would. I'm betting people who run large corporations know a little bit more about business strategy then people flipping burgers.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Slams buzzer. Beep-beep. WRONG.

That's about how many people McDonald's employs globally.

I'll use 24/7 Wall St.'s numbers, since they're more or less on the money:

"The math of exactly how much a move up to a $15 an hour minimum wage would total is not simple. McDonald’s and its franchises likely employ 300,000 people in the United States. McDonald’s does not provide an exact number, or separate its own workers from those of its franchises.

[[...)


Here is some simple but not entirely accurate math about what [McDonald's and Walmart] would pay if its hourly minimum wage rose to $15. If 75% of the workers at both companies make $8 and the number rose to $15, Walmart’s expense increase would be $18 billion a year. McDonald’s would be $4.5 billion. In the case of McDonald’s, profits would be cut in half."

Yes, that's a big deal. But McDonald's now gives out over 80 cents a share in dividends, and has almost a BILLION shares. So that's where a lot of the profit is going. Cuts can be made there.

And though we don't have enough data from McDonald's to be sure of the exact cost, the high job turnover at McD's has to eat a lot of money. Not just in job training, but in money lost due to poor service. It's exceedingly likely that a substantially higher wage would reduce job turnover and improve service. That would help offset the added costs.

It could also be that McDonald's might have to charge a nickel or two more for a few products. But customers - particularly Millennials - would probably accept that as the the end result of McDonald's paying a living wage. It could even improve the public's ailing perception of the company. Young adults aren't latching onto McD's like previous generations did. It's junky food and they abuse their workers.

<sup>Is the suggestion that minimum wage workers should get a raise, but that the store managers, most of which are promoted after having worked in the minimum wage positions, should not?

So your suggestion is that McDonalds should take GLOBAL profits and use them to raise wages of DOMESTIC workers?

Or is your suggestion that someone other than the business owner should dictate how to resolve the issue of employee turnover? Is your suggestion that the thousands of McDonalds HR empolyees haven't thought about that problem? Or that you know how to solve it better?

Or is your suggestion that the people that, you know, OWN McDonalds [[the shareholders) shouldn't get paid for owning it? Their dividend yield of 3.52% isn't much over the 10 year treasury rate.

Or is your suggestion that McDonalds is immune to reductions in demand due to increased prices? That the basic rules of economics don't apply? Or that the people who have years of experience and expertise, research and analysis supporting pricing decisions should yield to the judgment of who exactly?

I'm inclined to listen about wage stagnation, and how government policies tend to exacerbate the situation. This just doesn't happen to be a particularly good example.</sup>

[Scottathew]

I find it curious that people making $8/hr are trying to set strategy for a major, global corporation. If McDonald's leaders thought it was a good business strategy to pay more [[perhaps to lower turnover, as you suggested) or reduce dividends and profits, they probably would. I'm betting people who run large corporations know a little bit more about business strategy then people flipping burgers.

Yeah, like all the bank executives at Countrywide, Bears Stearns, Merrill Lynch, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual, Wachovia, National City, Citigroup, IndyMac, etc... They were soooo smart! Way smarter than us peons!

This issue is about more than just McDonald's. It's about every minimum wage worker out there.

A modest increase to minimum wage, along with implementing an automatic inflation increase would have the following effects:

Positive:
- Make working more appealing than assistance programs
- Allow folks that are working and contributing to society to live better lives
- The folks will put the extra money right back into the economy

Negative:
- Some folks will lose their jobs due to downsizing and greater focus on efficiency

[nain rouge]

Or is your suggestion that someone other than the business owner should dictate how to resolve the issue of employee turnover? Is your suggestion that the thousands of McDonalds HR empolyees haven't thought about that problem? Or that you know how to solve it better?

The business owners only worry about what's necessary to maximize their take of the profits. It's true that decreased turnover wouldn't completely offset the costs of raising wages. That's why McDonald's doesn't want to do it. But it's not a zero sum game.

So your suggestion is that McDonalds should take GLOBAL profits and use them to raise wages of DOMESTIC workers?

Now we're getting into semantics. Money for an international company comes from all over the place, and exits from all sorts of places. Take the dividend yield. That's only part of the story. McDonald's also has periodic stock buybacks. Sometimes almost 1 1/2 billion dollars in profit is returned to shareholders in a QUARTER when you combine everything. Another $250 million is spent a quarter on advertising.

If American workers want to try and negotiate for themselves a cut of that spending, I don't see it as horrendous or inconceivable. I don't know the exact numbers off hand, but I do know that America typically runs neck and neck with Europe as the McDonald's biggest market. American workers contribute heavily to McDonald's bottom line. They deserve more.

[Bham1982]

Fast food is supposed to be temporary, fill-in type of work. It's not supposed to be a lifetime career, or one to support a family. I know people with Masters degrees earning around the same, or a little more.

All this will do is hasten the advent of automation. The fast food giants are all about a decade away from nearly full automation, and elimination of most "front counter" and some kitchen jobs.

So then, if we get at $15 wage, all the protesters will have a new cause- protesting all the unemployed poor people now back on the dole, and needing a "living welfare check".

[mikeg19]

On to you: you probably don't work in fast food. You're a big shot, of course. But what if I told you that real wages in most professional fields have stagnated for decades, all while the real wages of CEOs and the profits of companies [[adjusted for inflation) have increased steadily? That, in reality, you're being shafted just as bad as the fast food worker, just on a different scale? In all likelihood, your job could afford to pay you more. If it went under after it wouldn't be because it paid you an extra 5 bucks an hour. It would be the end result of a series of unrelated bad decisions that happened way above your pay scale.

Just think, in America, companies hand out bonuses to executives and pay millions for a TV spots while telling us that there is nothing left in the vault for us. How stupid do we look?

In all honesty, I worked in a restaurant when I was 15 for about a month and absolutely hated it. Swore I'd never work in food as long as I lived and I haven't.

But your statement that the wealth gap between CEO's and non management company workers has increased at an alarming rate isn't any kind of secret. I think I read a stat somewhere that in the 50's or 60's the CEO to worker pay ratio was something like 60:1, and now it's somewhere in the 250:1 area if memory serves me correct. Someone would have to check on that. And I do agree with you that people can afford to pay an extra $0.25 cents for a Big Mac or whatever, but to even think that McDonalds or Taco Bell or whatever could afford to pay its workers $15 an hour with its business model is assanine. There would be a ripple effect across a lot of different sectors if Mc'ds raised it's pay to $15 an hour, and I don't think the results would be that great.

How pissed off would you be if you're a cop making $14 an hour and your 16 year old son is cleaning toilets in Taco Bell making $15 an hour?

Believe me, I agree with you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the system. I wish all of those [[ex)-employees good luck in there venture to bring the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

[nain rouge]

Fast food is supposed to be temporary, fill-in type of work. It's not supposed to be a lifetime career, or one to support a family.

Times change. We're a consumer society with a gigantic service sector. That's where the jobs are. If the surpluses are there, why can't we have some of it? No one is saying that fast food workers should be paid like CEOs. But a few bucks on hour won't destroy the economy. In fact, it could actually improve it. The economy does better when more money is circulating, and lower wage workers tend to spend almost everything they earn.

[Dan Wesson]

Just like everything else... Robots

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...flipping-robot

[nain rouge]

How pissed off would you be if you're a cop making $14 an hour and your 16 year old son is cleaning toilets in Taco Bell making $15 an hour?

Then they'd have to pay the cop more, wouldn't they? And then maybe we wouldn't be able to afford quite as many wasteful civic projects. They might even have to scale back the new convention center a tiny bit! Doom, I say, DOOOOM!