Woodward corridor near royal oak/birmingham

**boater4life** · November-12-14, 11:06 PM

How has this area been since the recent recession? Seems like times are tough but I was taking a ride along Woodward near 13 and 14 mile road and it seems like this area has seen better days. Even saw some of those shops with bars over the windows. Just wondering how crime has been around here and if anyone has seen the area go downhill at all in recent years.

**rjlj** · November-13-14, 12:44 AM

Ha!! WTF are you talking about?

Originally Posted by boater4life

How has this area been since the recent recession? Seems like times are tough but I was taking a ride along Woodward near 13 and 14 mile road and it seems like this area has seen better days. Even saw some of those shops with bars over the windows. Just wondering how crime has been around here and if anyone has seen the area go downhill at all in recent years.

**animatedmartian** · November-13-14, 01:10 AM

Pretty sure there's no store front along that stretch of Woodward with bars over the front.

**Dumpling** · November-13-14, 02:07 AM

Was just at the little strip mall at the corner of 13 Mile and Woodward today. Yes,
it has seen better days. It used to be fully occupied with a store I remember as
JCPenney's anchoring it. Parking used to be a bear. Now it is easy to find a spot.
It's not in a death spiral yet and its parking lot is full for one weekend in August
at least. I think as far as shopping it has been superceded by the new shopping
area somewhat to the north and east that is right by the new Birmingham train
station.

**Kathleen** · November-13-14, 05:15 AM

For a number of years, Beaumont Hospital has had plans to convert/tear down Northwood Center for medical facilities of some sort. With that in mind, some businesses have closed when their contract was up for renewal. And while this project has been stretched out for many years due to the economic downturn of 2008-2009, new businesses won't take the chance of opening there. Hope something happens one way or another there soon!!

**Bham1982** · November-13-14, 07:20 AM

There is no store with "bars over the windows" along that corridor.

Woodward in Northern Royal Oak is probably healthier now that at any time in recent history.

**Honky Tonk** · November-13-14, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kathleen

For a number of years, Beaumont Hospital has had plans to convert/tear down Northwood Center for medical facilities of some sort. With that in mind, some businesses have closed when their contract was up for renewal. And while this project has been stretched out for many years due to the economic downturn of 2008-2009, new businesses won't take the chance of opening there. Hope something happens one way or another there soon!!

I'm not a big shopper, and never have been. When I actually need something, the first place I go to is the Internet. The 45 minutes I waste there, allows me to look @ multiple products within my parameters, and choose one that best suites my needs. Wasting the same 45 minutes using my car, gets me to one store, which may, or may not, have what I'm looking for. I think a lot of brick and mortar type shopping demise undoubtedly has to do with Internet development.

**MizMotown** · November-13-14, 08:41 AM

happy, happy, joy, joy for Detroit being able to declare bankruptcy and basically get a do-over but what about the surrounding cities that don't have the money, are not declaring bankruptcy and are slowly but surely going to shit?

**Bham1982** · November-13-14, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm not a big shopper, and never have been. When I actually need something, the first place I go to is the Internet. The 45 minutes I waste there, allows me to look @ multiple products within my parameters, and choose one that best suites my needs. Wasting the same 45 minutes using my car, gets me to one store, which may, or may not, have what I'm looking for. I think a lot of brick and mortar type shopping demise undoubtedly has to do with Internet development.

What does any of this have to do with Beaumont expansion??

**DTWflyer** · November-13-14, 11:26 AM

This is a rediculous thread.....
Only on Detroityes to we get threads about "Is Grosse Pointe becoming ghetto?" "Is Birmingham in decline?" "Is Royal Oak in decline?"....seriously???

I live right off this section of Woodward for the better part of the past decade and there really has been no significant change.

Woodward Ave through Royal Oak is that, Woodward Ave. Its a hodge-podge of commerical properties dating in age and vintage from the 1950s-2010s. They range in size and scale from small to large, renovated & modern to dated. It is still one of the major commerical corridors in the region and thus has the types of businesses you would expect to find on a major throughfare.

The shopping center at 13 & Woodward has been in decline for the past several years, in part due to the lack of investment by the owner - Beaumont. As said, for several years Beaumont has been proposing tearing down the shopping center and using the land for expansion of the medical complex. Thus tenants have pulled-out with the uncertain future. Plus, Beaumont has made zero investment in the complex so it looks dated and shoddy. The Kroger there, while always busy is almost one of the most dated and small Kroger stores in the region. They have much smaller selection than the Kroger in Troy or Birmingham. Honestly, I wish they would keep the shopping center and update and try to actually attact new tenants because its convenient. The former Rite Aid was converted into a day care center. The Secretary of State is gone now that they've consolidated into regional super-center. Four-Greenfields bar/tavern is gone. The major tenants - Office Depot, Dunhams, Party City, and Kroger remain.

Chrysler pullled their franchise from Village Automotive a few years ago, a very odd dealership with a parking garage but that now seems to be doing ok as a used car dealer.

Red Coat, Duggans, Pasqualles are always extremely busy.

Actually there has been more new stuff that has gone into this strip in the past year than in the past several.
A new Starbucks with a drive-through was just built south of 13 Mile, replacing an old auto repair garage.
Burger King just rebuilt and modernized their store there.
A new Subway and a Moe's [[the first one I've seen in the state) just opened on the stretch.

I'm actually more impressed with the stretch of Woodward in Birmingham from Maple down past Lincoln as there seems be continual redevelopment in this stretch. Birmingham has stronger zoning and a signage ordinance that keeps their strip looking less hodge-podge.

Outside of that, the residential areas along the corridor are still very desirable. This area of North Royal Oak is one of the higher value areas in the city.

Yes, I've heard of a few crime stories in the area - a buddy was held-up for his wallet outside a bar, the bartender at Duggans was robbed while closing down a few years ago, the weird drifters who were murdered some elderly residents a few years ago. I mean, you hear stories about random robberies and such in every community.

I actually think the Woodward corridor from Ferndale up through Birmingham actually as a lot of potential in the future. Particularly as more business moves back into the City of Detroit, this area continues to become more desirable. There are more tear-downs & reconstructions in Royal Oak than they've ever had and in neighborhoods well away from the downtown area too.

**mtburb** · November-13-14, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

a Moe's [[the first one I've seen in the state) just opened on the stretch.

Actually, there used to be a Moe's on Eureka near Dix-Toledo Highway in Southgate in what was once a Pizza Hut. That one is now an independent restaurant.

**Hamtragedy** · November-14-14, 09:34 AM

I will admit to seeing a ton of Panhandlers this summer at that 13/ Woodward intersection. They've even crept their way up to 14 / Woodward. Daily. All summer long.

**dtowncitylover** · November-14-14, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

I will admit to seeing a ton of Panhandlers this summer at that 13/ Woodward intersection. They've even crept their way up to 14 / Woodward. Daily. All summer long.

Yes this is true. Starting from 696 and Woodward up to 13 Mile I've seen them too. I haven't seen any at 14 but I'll take your word.

**Towne Cluber** · November-14-14, 02:18 PM

I drive the Woodward corridor from 696 to Maple all the time [[almost daily and at varying hours). I've seen the same panhandler in the westbound 696 at Woodward intersection a handful of times. Likewise, the same panhandler at 13 and Woodward a few times. I've only seen a panhandler at Maple [[15) and Woodward once over several decades. Bottom line, to say "a ton of panhandlers" is an incredible stretch of reality.

**DTWflyer** · November-17-14, 09:00 AM

"A ton of panhandlers" is a little exaggerated, but yes it is common to see a few people panhandling at the major intersections along Woodward through Royal Oak.

A few years ago, Royal Oak lifted some of their ordinances on begging and panhandling, which now makes it legal for passive and polite panhandling.

Again, I live right off this stretch of Woodward and there is almost always a panhandler at Woodward & 13 Mile during daylight hours. They actually typically sit on Coolidge by the Walgreens or White Castle where traffic backs-up at the traffic light. They don't bother anyone, usually just sitting there hanging out.

That said, I've seen people in scooters/wheelchairs, disabled, and blind. On the other hand, I've seen guys younger than me in their early/mid 20s. I've even seen some younger woman out there, which I wasn't sure if she was soliciting or not. The younger ones look like junkies.

Some of them I think live in the apartment complexes around 13 & Woodward, others ride the bus up Woodward. Woodward after all is one of the major throughfares and one of the major bus routes too.

The panhandlers don't bother anyone really.

http://patch.com/michigan/royaloak/i...m-in-royal-oak
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...lcome_pol.html

**Llama** · November-17-14, 09:14 AM

I can't help but wonder whether boater4life has ever take a look at Lake Angelus.

**Bham1982** · November-17-14, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

Some of them I think live in the apartment complexes around 13 & Woodward, others ride the bus up Woodward. Woodward after all is one of the major throughfares and one of the major bus routes too.

Those sketchy apartments across Woodward are filled with subsidized, Section 8 tenants and I would not be shocked if the 13/Wood panhandlers have some connection to that complex.

13/Wood is a bit odd. Surrounded by generally desirable neighborhoods of various types but many of the 50's-era apartment complexes surrounding Beaumont are of dubious reputation.

I assume they were all built for hospital staff, and some remain as such, but others, esp. east of Woodward, are pretty sketchy for Royal Oak standards. There is some petty drug dealing, loitering during weekday hours, off-the-books stuff going on. Not exactly unsafe but not desirable for most folks with a steady paycheck.

**Bham1982** · November-17-14, 09:37 AM

Oh, and the motels- some have been demolished, others have been cleaned up, but there are still a few transient motels on Woodward in Royal Oak. They accept monthly residents, so you have a certain crowd in the vicinity. I don't know if these motels are havens for solicitation, but I would not be surprised.

**DTWflyer** · November-17-14, 10:29 AM

Yes, the apartment complexes around 13 & Woodward are generally not the nicest in the area, however dubious any be a little too harsh a term.

The complexes west of Woodward still retain a number of people associated with the hospital, but some of the townhouses now hold a number of Section 8 tenants. East of Woodward, its just more of lower income type of rentals. Most of the properties seem dated and are in need of heavy renovations if they ever were to try to attract higher rents.

This is nothing new though, I knew people who moved into one of those complexes 10 years ago and they said the same thing, causal drug dealing/use, loitering, domestic violence, etc. Not unsafe and I've never heard of random acts of crime. In fact, I never see anything in the police logs.

As for the hotels on Woodward, the City of Royal Oak has made it known for a while they want them gone. They have really stepped up their enforcement of the properties and can and do conduct random hotel checks. The police watch these places pretty closely so there isn't really any illegal activity going on there. What does happen though is they regularly bust people with outstanding warrents or probation violations.

I suspect part of the reason what you see at 13 & Woodward is that is one of the few places in the suburbs that is safe, has good access to public transportation, lower rent apartments, and in walking distance to retail/grocery/food where you can make it work without a car.

We walk/run/bike by these places all the time, including my 5'1 wife who runs all over Royal Oak by herself and never has felt unsafe. My wife will walk across 13 & Woodward to the shopping center by herself and doesn't think anything of it. Neither do I.

**Scottathew** · November-17-14, 11:48 AM

I've heard, but not confirmed, that Beaumont owns a lot of the apartments and other parcels around the hospital for future expansion possibilities.

**boater4life** · November-17-14, 06:09 PM

This was just from what i've seen, obvioulsy 13/woodward could look to some like a sketchy area and I've noticed the same panhandler on the southwest corner of 14/woodward out everyday for the past week or so. Just my observations. Also, I haven't witnessed this for myself, but I've been told by some people that downtown Bham gets a different crowd on the weeekends? Never noticed this but they were talking about some establishment that closed down next to the movie theater, that could have been the reason why.

**nain rouge** · November-17-14, 06:22 PM

I will say that Woodward north of I-696 has a lackluster feel to it. It's full of junk most of the way. Just really uninspiring stores. I wouldn't say that it's dangerous or decayed, though.

**Bham1982** · November-17-14, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

I will say that Woodward north of I-696 has a lackluster feel to it. It's full of junk most of the way. Just really uninspiring stores. I wouldn't say that it's dangerous or decayed, though.

The section of Woodward just north of I-696 has the highest residential property values anywhere along Woodward south of 14 mile. South of the freeway you have bad public schools, and so home values suffer, even if the homes are nice.

I don't know if this translates to better retail, as Woodward is more of a regional destination than a local one, but I can think of a hell of a lot more "stuff", both good and bad, in the two miles north of the freeway than south, which makes sense as traffic drops off south of 696.

**animatedmartian** · November-18-14, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

This was just from what i've seen, obvioulsy 13/woodward could look to some like a sketchy area and I've noticed the same panhandler on the southwest corner of 14/woodward out everyday for the past week or so. Just my observations. Also, I haven't witnessed this for myself, but I've been told by some people that downtown Bham gets a different crowd on the weeekends? Never noticed this but they were talking about some establishment that closed down next to the movie theater, that could have been the reason why.

Panhandlers are everywhere at this point. Doesn't matter where. They go wherever there is high traffic and high visibility.

The Bham crowd could just be a bunch of drunks. Put enough bars in an area and people are more than likely to be rowdy a few nights. Though anyone other than the wine sipping crowd would probably stick out in Bham.

**Zacha341** · November-18-14, 06:22 AM

That was what I was thinking. I am up and down that corridor alot as I have favorite restaurants and Trader Joes etc. I go to. Sure it is not tip top economically speaking but no bars on windows. Nope.

Originally Posted by Bham1982

There is no store with "bars over the windows" along that corridor.

Woodward in Northern Royal Oak is probably healthier now that at any time in recent history.