8 mile over hall rd?

**boater4life** · October-07-14, 08:19 PM

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city? I always thought it had so much potential as a semi-major east west route and that stores could thrive along this area.

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 09:24 PM

Hall Road should not be what 8 Mile should strive for.

**Cliffy** · October-07-14, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Hall Road should not be what 8 Mile should strive for.

Yeah I think it should strive for that because it means people are buying stuff. The current 8 mile is a big dump.

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Yeah I think it should strive for that because it means people are buying stuff. The current 8 mile is a big dump.

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-07-14, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

Maybe we should take the money we save on doing a half-@$$ job on I-94 and use it to acheive your dream!

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Maybe we should take the money we save on doing a half-@$$ job on I-94 and use it to acheive your dream!

Yes, the dreams of the completion of an incomplete freeway is quite a big one for me.

**courtney** · October-08-14, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

I'd always heard when I first moved here [[in 1999, soon after they'd finished extending the freeway portion to Van Dyke and making the remainder to 94 6 lanes instead of the former 2) that the plan had originally been to extend the freeway all the way to 94 but they ended up finding out that because of the soil, it would be too costly to continue it as a freeway. I always thought that sounded plausible, since I see more herons in the median wetland areas on that road than I do on the shores of Lake St Clair.

Anyone know if this is one of those urban legends or if this was actually what happened?

And as an aside, I remember the first time I came to Michigan, in July of 1999. My now-husband took me to Lakeside, taking Mound up to Hall Road. I joked that he was taking me out to the middle of nowhere to kill me. Now, I want to die a little bit every time I'm forced to take Hall Road anywhere, for any reason. It's horrific.

**Honky Tonk** · October-08-14, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Yes, the dreams of the completion of an incomplete freeway is quite a big one for me.

Maybe you should talk to a profesional about your reoccurring dreams?

**Hermod** · October-08-14, 04:13 AM

8-Mile was probably the first part of the Detroit metro area to exhibit the architectural characteristics of suburban sprawl.

**Bham1982** · October-08-14, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city?

You've been on DYes too long. People aren't moving back into the city. The region's core is emptying out as fast as ever.

If there were some hypothetical scenario where people were flocking to 7 Mile and 8 Mile, then obviously the commercial corridors would benefit, but no, I don't think it would be anything like Hall Road, which, while successful, is kind of nightmarish design and not really comparable to an older suburban environment like 8 Mile.

**mikeg19** · October-08-14, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by courtney

I'd always heard when I first moved here [[in 1999, soon after they'd finished extending the freeway portion to Van Dyke and making the remainder to 94 6 lanes instead of the former 2) that the plan had originally been to extend the freeway all the way to 94 but they ended up finding out that because of the soil, it would be too costly to continue it as a freeway. I always thought that sounded plausible, since I see more herons in the median wetland areas on that road than I do on the shores of Lake St Clair.

Anyone know if this is one of those urban legends or if this was actually what happened?

I've never heard anything regarding the soils. As far as why the freeway stops at Van Dyke, back when it was being examined to extend the freeway all the way to 94, then mayor of Utica put the kabosh on the project, as the freeway extension would have required bulldozing the southside of downtown Utica as the freeway was designed.

And regarding 8 mile rd becoming another Hall road, that must be a joke. 8 mile is a wasteland of used car lots, strip clubs, and fast food joints. Good luck convincing affluent stores to setup shop on that road. Yes, I know, I know, there is a Meijer on 8 mile now. I can only imagine what the loss prevention statistics are for that store. Maybe if Detroit neighborhoods stabilize someday and crime is driven down, 8 mile could become a shopping and entertainment mecca. But I think that is in the very, very far future.

**313WX** · October-08-14, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I've never heard anything regarding the soils. As far as why the freeway stops at Van Dyke, back when it was being examined to extend the freeway all the way to 94, then mayor of Utica put the kabosh on the project, as the freeway extension would have required bulldozing the southside of downtown Utica as the freeway was designed.

And regarding 8 mile rd becoming another Hall road, that must be a joke. 8 mile is a wasteland of used car lots, strip clubs, and fast food joints. Good luck convincing affluent stores to setup shop on that road. Yes, I know, I know, there is a Meijer on 8 mile now. I can only imagine what the loss prevention statistics are for that store. Maybe if Detroit neighborhoods stabilize someday and crime is driven down, 8 mile could become a shopping and entertainment mecca. But I think that is in the very, very far future.

Eastland Center, Northland Center, Michigan State Fairgrounds, Northland Skating Rink, Softball City, Belmont Shopping Center and Bel-Air Shopping Centre would all beg to differ.

Granted, they've all seen better days. But their downfall wasn't the a result of 8 Mile itself an its flaws...

**Bham1982** · October-08-14, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Eastland Center, Northland Center, Michigan State Fairgrounds, Northland Skating Rink, Softball City, Belmont Shopping Center and Bel-Air Shopping Centre would all beg to differ.

Don't these examples kind of contradict your point? These are all failed retail venues, with no affluent customer base.

**DTWflyer** · October-08-14, 07:25 AM

No.

Big-box Hall Road style retail is so late 90s/early 2000s. The best case if the surrounding demographic supported it would be for a few more retail power centers. There are a lot of opportunities to remake the Northland area but no one sees any potential demand there.

8 Mile in theory should look more like Woodward between 8-14 Mile through Oakland County at it best. It probably never will though.

8 Mile is a great east-west route, and during rush hour can be faster than I-696.

Yes, I can remember when Hall Road was 2 lanes from Utica over to I-94.

**Scottathew** · October-08-14, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

The thought of completing the M-59 freeway to I-94 makes my heart feel joy, but then my brain says we should probably do something much more productive.

I've seen no signs that M-DOT is considering this.

**Smirnoff** · October-08-14, 07:49 AM

Any strip joints on Hall Rd.....I know the Sail Inn closed several years ago at the very end of M-59.

**TTime** · October-08-14, 07:53 AM

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

**Scottathew** · October-08-14, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by TTime

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

[sarcasm]No, hall road symbolizes all that's evil. I'd rather see 8-Mile rotting in it's current form of failed businesses and strip joints than to be a heavily trafficked commercial corridor[/sarcasm]

**Hermod** · October-08-14, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

No.
Yes, I can remember when Hall Road was 2 lanes from Utica over to I-94.

At some point east of Utica, the name changed from "Hall Road" to "Wm. P. Rosso".

West of Utica at some point M-59 changed from "Hall Road" to "Auburn Road".

**Danny** · October-08-14, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You've been on DYes too long. People aren't moving back into the city. The region's core is emptying out as fast as ever.

If there were some hypothetical scenario where people were flocking to 7 Mile and 8 Mile, then obviously the commercial corridors would benefit, but no, I don't think it would be anything like Hall Road, which, while successful, is kind of nightmarish design and not really comparable to an older suburban environment like 8 Mile.

You are not looking the demographics correctly. White folks who are hip cool skinny jeaned, wearing black eyeglasses, carrying satchels, drinking Starbucks Mocha-Cappuccino young professionals are moving back to Detroit, mostly from Gilberttown to Midtown.

Black folks are quickly moving out to the suburbs.

Hall Rd. is the new 8 Mile Rd. filled with 2 shopping malls and miles of big box sprawl-marts. The traffic there gets so congested that it would take you 5 minutes to drive you car across one intersection.

**mikeg19** · October-08-14, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Eastland Center, Northland Center, Michigan State Fairgrounds, Northland Skating Rink, Softball City, Belmont Shopping Center and Bel-Air Shopping Centre would all beg to differ.

Granted, they've all seen better days. But their downfall wasn't the a result of 8 Mile itself an its flaws...

Oh yes, Cabinet's To Go and the T-Mobil store are huge draws for the Bel Air shopping center

Every single one of those establishments is a shell of its former self. Half of the stores in all of them are closed and the big national brands like Express, Guess, Hollister, etc that bring in "kids" to the mall don't even have stores there. Plus a lot of people wouldn't be caught dead there after dark.

I do think you are correct though regarding the downfall of these establishments. It wasn't because of 8 mile, it's because of the demographics of the area, the crime, unemployment, etc. Take your pick. But until you get rid of the strip clubs, liquor stores, and motels lining the strip, there will be no kind of "Hall Road" resemblance.

**Jason** · October-08-14, 12:41 PM

8 Mile won't ever be like Hall Road, with the growth of downtown and the increased number of commuters from Oakland County, 8 Mile will experience a renaissance. 30 story love hotels, ground floor strip clubs, underground parking garages with convenient access to chop shops!

There's not really any role for 8 Mile in the future of the region. The main trend of inner ring suburbs and the city emptying out into the exurbs will continue. And the trend of people moving back into the urban core will accelerate. 8 Mile isn't on either group's radar.

**1953** · October-08-14, 12:45 PM

I'm an ardent urbanist who loves and lives in the city, but I have a soft spot in my heart for Hall Rd, where I grew up. I think its nifty.

1953

**Meddle** · October-08-14, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by boater4life

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city? I always thought it had so much potential as a semi-major east west route and that stores could thrive along this area.

Just curious about your age.

Semi-major east-west route?

In my day, it WAS a major east-west route. It was the only direct route both ways. In the 70s and 80s, traveling from the far west side to Selfridge, there really wasn't any other route that made sense. I could make it from Telegraph to 94 in a half hour or so at 5AM. Once portions of 696 opened, I still ran 8 Mile to 75, then up to 696 and over to 94.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-08-14, 04:49 PM

Here is an interesting tidbit; if you drive a regular speed and there are few people driving like idiots, you should be able to make it all the way from Grand River to Harper Woods without stopping on I-94. If I am not mistaken the speed is 38 [[or is it 48?) mph. I have not done it for a while, but a traffic engineering course I took years ago was taught by the guy who set the signals. May sound slow, but it beats diverting and getting caught by lights.