Beserk Gunman of the Month

[Pam]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090403/...stage_shooting

Or is it gunman of the week now?

[gibran]

It seems that the target were immigrants....ok where these nit just people/victims wanting to become citizens and it pissed off "who" ?

[Locke09]

They're saying the shooter was an immigrant too and that he was just laid off from IBM [[they're trying to verify that). Desperate times bring out the worst in people.

[lilpup]

check out this story from NPR today:

On Feb. 24, when armed immigration agents raided Yamato Engine Specialists, a small company that rebuilds car engines in Bellingham, Wash., 28 workers were led away in handcuffs. They were illegal immigrants, most of them from Mexico, and they faced quick deportation. It was the first big immigration raid under President Obama, and it came as a shock to many in the Hispanic community.
<snip>
Now, one month later, 27 of the 28 workers have been released. One of them — Luis Ramos — says he can't get over how nice the immigration agents have become.

"They treat us wonderfully," Ramos says. "They even say, 'do you want a soda from the machine?'"

The government is offering them temporary work permits, and immigration agents are even giving the Mexicans free rides to Seattle to file the paperwork. Now the anger at Obama is coming from the other side of the immigration debate.
<snip>
On Thursday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials came back, but this time, it wasn't after workers — the blue-jacketed immigration officials had a warrant to search the company's files. They set up special gear to copy the contents of Yamato's computers, and company manager Shirin Makalai watched the process with an air of strained cordiality.
<snip>
Rebollar [one of the released Mexicans] says he thinks Yamato treated him well, but he and his colleagues say they'll provide the government with evidence, if necessary. They have good reason to cooperate. Their work permits are valid only as long as there's a case against Yamato. Once they're no longer useful to investigators, they again face deportation.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=102723012

[Bigb23]

I have no problems with skilled foriegn workers, as long as they abide by our National laws already in place. But this opens a can of worms, just like the last forum thread. Proper visa's and documentation would be an integeral part of the plan. Don't we have skilled engine builders out of work here in the Detroit area ? So some of us can't live on $7.50 an hour? I can't. Float the Nation, for better trade and buying power.

[ccbatson]

Never blame the predator/lunatic's circumstances for the evil that they do.

[lilpup]

Isn't it a little surprising, in a way, that there hasn't been anything major like this here? Here it's maybe a disgruntled worker or ex-spouse taking out one or two people, or it's a bar fight or a neighborhood argument that escalates, but no major high number takedowns. You'd think with our situation this would be ground zero.

[firstandten]

I'll say it again, we do not have a illegal worker problem, we have an illegal employer problem and the sooner we deal with it the better off we'll be.

[lilpup]

On the surface, no, but it likely did. Or are you assuming the gunman picked a bunch of immigrants to spare them the hell that is the truth behind the golden American dream they came here for?

According to news accounts the gunman, too, was an immigrant, here for many years, and recently let go from IBM.

[lilpup]

Immigrant ≠ illegal worker

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but when jobs are few the latter tends to become the focus .

[lilpup]

No. People equate all immigrants with illegal workers and this must stop.

No, really? Let's start with those who intermix all immigrant statuses in with their arguments for protecting illegal immigrants.

There is no evidence that "illegal workers" motivated the shooting and why should it? The shooter himself was an immigrant [[NOT illegal), so why would he resent other immigrants? That makes zero sense.

Until his recent job loss is considered in today's atmosphere.

Since he took classes there, the likelihood that this was personal - my bet is that his ex-girlfriend will turn out to be one of the victims - and to turn this into some discussion of the immigration debate is silly.

How recently was he taking classes there? He'd reportedly already been in the country for 28 years!

[firstandten]

I guess the real reasons are starting to come out

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4918950.shtml


The discussion we need to be having is how to increase the social safety net in a society where without a job you can go from a house to a virtual tent city in a matter of months. Without the health care you get from your employer you have borderline cases of people with mental illness walking around on the edge.

[Ray1936]

There's no question in my mind that illegal immigrants are a major problem. I think we should deploy troops all along the Canadian border immediately. Indeed, we may have to invade Manitoba and Alberta, obviously the weak points.

[lilpup]

Originally Posted by Ray1936
There's no question in my mind that illegal immigrants are a major problem. I think we should deploy troops all along the Canadian border immediately. Indeed, we may have to invade Manitoba and Alberta, obviously the weak points.

Then we must immediately deport all immigrants. Let's us start with that canuck Jeffery Skoll and that Ayrab Pierre Omidiyar and make them take their foreign company with them. Then we will deport that Ruskie Sergey Brin.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2009/mar...eurs-study.htm

Typical bullshit argument, mixing statuses. This is the type of comment that has people equating all immigrants with illegal immigrants. Or are you really saying Jeffrey Skoll, Pierre Omidyar, and Sergey Brin were/are illegal immigrants?

[alsodave]

I guess the real reasons are starting to come out

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4918950.shtml


The discussion we need to be having is how to increase the social safety net in a society where without a job you can go from a house to a virtual tent city in a matter of months. Without the health care you get from your employer you have borderline cases of people with mental illness walking around on the edge.

From the article: "He had lost face with other immigrants." We also need to talk about cultural norms, and tread the fine line between behaviors practiced back in the "old country" and how "we do things here".

[Pam]

I guess we still can't edit a thread title? I spelled "berserk" wrong.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/...on_shootings_7

It was at least the fifth fatal mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month,

I guess we all need to wear bullet proof vests wherever we go now.

[Islandman]

Nah, carrying a gun is way more convenient, plus you get to shoot people when they piss you off.

[Pam]

Jeez, another one:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/...burgh_shooting

[oldredfordette]

Oh great. Another wacko who was whipped up into a frenzy at the thought of what Obama would do with his guns.

Of course the right wing media machine won't take ownership of this. Thanks to Michael Savage and Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity!

[ejames01]

This is going to get a lot worse. There are a lot of really angry people out there and most of them can't deal with losing their jobs, home and families.

[ccbatson]

Guns don't help one bit...and this is coming from one of those "right wing wackos" you libs are so afraid of.

[Jimaz]

... friends said the gunman recently had been upset about losing his job and feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Destructive behavior is the exact opposite of what's necessary to regain a lost job. Destructive behavior is the cul-de-sac that these people are being driven into by hate mongers. They're taught that destructive behavior is their only escape but in reality it's only a deathtrap.

The Rush Limbaughs of this world are unwittingly [[or wittingly?) culling their own herd at the expense of innocent bystanders.

[ccbatson]

Rush Limbaugh? he shot people?

I don't believe these lunatics are fixing to regain their jobs...do you?

[oladub]

Detroit has a lot of gun crime but I doubt that Rush's influence has much to do with it. On the other hand, despondent Vietnamese immigrants who can't speak English are usually dittoheads.

[firstandten]

As we see this economy gets worst, many progressive and liberal thinkers and economist think a depression is going to happen. We are going to see more and more of this kind of killing. Instead of people jumping off buildings during the great depression we are seeing men that can't provide for themselves and there families just go off in a blind rage against their families and authorities.

Very few are like Wagoner who can be unemployed with a 20M golden parachute. Most of us just get pushed off the plane and hope we can land somewhere soft. I don't care what you want to call it but we need social safety nets like they have in Europe. Its either that or expect more of the killings we have been seeing lately.


Secondly, I am so disappointed in our cultures critical thinking skills. We get our information from sound bites and right wing talk radio. This had to be only way the young man could come up with "Obama is going to take his gun away".
If people would take the time to read about him or listen to his speeches or press conferences from beginning to end he will tell you exactly what he intends to do. Now you may not like it but at least you know and he has never said anything about taking anybodies gun away. What a shame!