Dog Attack On Eastside

[Honky Tonk]

This is awful.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...roit/16635281/

[313WX]

This is awful.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...roit/16635281/

Ah yes, the joys of living in the urban prairies...

[Gpwrangler]

Someone keeps 13 pit bulls in a house and no one says anything about it. smh

[jt1]

Someone keeps 13 pit bulls in a house and no one says anything about it. smh

Quite an assumption that nobody said anything about it. Your premise is that if there are calls/complaints that the appropriate action would be taken by the department in charge.

[Gpwrangler]

Quite an assumption that nobody said anything about it. Your premise is that if there are calls/complaints that the appropriate action would be taken by the department in charge.

Either scenario is possible. And to both scenarios...smh.

[TTime]

Awful. I saw a large pack of wild dogs crossing Jefferson and heading West along the train tracks near Conner a few days ago.

[jt1]

Either scenario is possible. And to both scenarios...smh.

Correct. The big difference is that your first assumption is to blame people that are vicitms of a broken system instead of having the slightest bit of sympathy for them.

It's the same scenario when people complain that citizens won't work closely with the DPD without any understanding of [[1) the fact that repercussion is a very real threat and [[2) DPD is not there to protect the people that work with them.

But blame away if it makes you feel better.

[Gpwrangler]

Correct. The big difference is that your first assumption is to blame people that are vicitms of a broken system instead of having the slightest bit of sympathy for them.

It's the same scenario when people complain that citizens won't work closely with the DPD without any understanding of [[1) the fact that repercussion is a very real threat and [[2) DPD is not there to protect the people that work with them.

But blame away if it makes you feel better.

Assumptions are in no particular order. A person has been seriously hurt [[another just recently died from an attack). He is the one I have sympathy for.

The liberal spin on here is getting fucking old. No one wants anyone held responsible for anything anymore. Bullshit.

[jt1]

Assumptions are in no particular order. A person has been seriously hurt [[another just recently died from an attack). He is the one I have sympathy for.

The liberal spin on here is getting fucking old. No one wants anyone held responsible for anything anymore. Bullshit.

Can you elaborate? I am all for responsibility and the responsibility needs to come in the city departments performing better. Given the horrible service in the past, what should the residents continue to do? Complain with no service? Doesn't work. Elect new officials? That was done and the expectation is that services will improve but that takes time. Go round up the dogs themselves? Good luck with that.

You mistake 'liberal spin' and'lack of personal responsibility' without considering the systematic breakdown residents deal with.

So now, what should the residents do if they have called the city, written their mayor, congressperson, etc. Because I know a number of people that do this and the change has not occurred.

Perhaps you should have a clue what the fuck you are talking about before using buzz words like 'liberal spin' and 'accountability'

Now a question to add some context: How many people do you know that live in Detroit excluding Midtown, downtown, Indian Village and Corktown because you see to be completely clueless on the reality of what people do to try to improve their neighborhood and the obstacles they face.

Lastly: Who should be held responsible? If the dogs had owners, absolutely jail them. Beyond that, how is the average citizen supposed to deal with this? Let's hear your answers since you clearly understand all the details and know all the answers.

[jt1]

All that said, I am a fan of personal responsibility and taking care of your community but I would like GPs answers to what the citizens should do in this scenario if they call and the services are not supplied

[Honky Tonk]

All that said, I am a fan of personal responsibility and taking care of your community but I would like GPs answers to what the citizens should do in this scenario if they call and the services are not supplied

Both of you are correct. People SHOULD take responsibility for their actions, but not all do, nor care to. Good point, what DO you do when you've exhausted all your legal options, and can't get a response from anyone @ the helm. I think you've hit the nail on the head as to much of Detroit's problems.

[jt1]

Both of you are correct. People SHOULD take responsibility for their actions, but not all do, nor care to. Good point, what DO you do when you've exhausted all your legal options, and can't get a response from anyone @ the helm. I think you've hit the nail on the head as to much of Detroit's problems.

Agreed, people need to be responsible but after trying for a long time at what point to people get beat down. Call the cops ten times and they don't come out are you really going to try the eleventh? Or call the cops, get the neighborhood dope dealer/banger off the street to find that the court gave them unsupervised probation for the tenth time.

People will get more involved again as they see progress with DPD, the courts and other service oriented departments. I recall calling about a light being out a good 10+ times. Six months later the light was still out. Am I supposed to climb the pole and replace the bulb myself?

There's certainly fault on both sides but only so much that responsible people can do in some cases.

[jt1]

My frustration comes in when people assume all you have to do is make an effort or call the correct department and things will just be taken care of. The reality of 'personal responsibility' is very different when you have a functioning city that supplies reasonable services.

Unfortunately, people like GPwrangler appear to think that getting things done in Detroit and the level of effort are the same as those in GP.

[Gpwrangler]

My frustration comes in when people assume all you have to do is make an effort or call the correct department and things will just be taken care of. The reality of 'personal responsibility' is very different when you have a functioning city that supplies reasonable services.

Unfortunately, people like GPwrangler appear to think that getting things done in Detroit and the level of effort are the same as those in GP.

I've put considerable effort into fixing things where I've lived. I've been places where it was difficult to get changes made but I never quit or became "beaten down". Attacking me will not fix detroit but have at it. Later.

[Honky Tonk]

Agreed, people need to be responsible but after trying for a long time at what point to people get beat down. Call the cops ten times and they don't come out are you really going to try the eleventh? Or call the cops, get the neighborhood dope dealer/banger off the street to find that the court gave them unsupervised probation for the tenth time.

People will get more involved again as they see progress with DPD, the courts and other service oriented departments. I recall calling about a light being out a good 10+ times. Six months later the light was still out. Am I supposed to climb the pole and replace the bulb myself?

There's certainly fault on both sides but only so much that responsible people can do in some cases.

I can tell by your posts you've been there and done that. The scenarios you describe are pretty true to form. I'm @ the point where I'm thinking it's my turn to say good-bye.

[Islandman]

I've put considerable effort into fixing things where I've lived. I've been places where it was difficult to get changes made but I never quit or became "beaten down". Attacking me will not fix detroit but have at it. Later.

Was this considerable effort done in an environment like Detroit? Comparing the considerable effort one would have to exhaust in GP vs. a place like Detroit is laughable, put perhaps you can enlighten us as to other difficult locations/situations you've encountered that could possibly compare.

[jt1]

I can tell by your posts you've been there and done that. The scenarios you describe are pretty true to form. I'm @ the point where I'm thinking it's my turn to say good-bye.

Understandable but I do have a little hope that Duggan will make various city departments more accountable. Updating the IT even to 1990s standards should also help people have some visibility into what is being done, etc.

There's a history of lack of departmental accountability because no single person could access all the issues/bcklogged work in one place.

[jt1]

I've put considerable effort into fixing things where I've lived. I've been places where it was difficult to get changes made but I never quit or became "beaten down". Attacking me will not fix detroit but have at it. Later.

I'm not necessarily attaching you, I am attacking your belief that personal responsibility will just fix everything. There are a lot of systematic issues that prevent citizens from getting things done: Citizens can't arrest people [[and please don't bring up citizens arrest), citizens can't climb poles and change lights, citizens don't have the means to fix potholes, etc.

I can try all day and call and complain and escalate, etc but there are simply some things I, as a citizen, can't address in the immediate term.

I can certainly cut my grass, pick up litter, maintain my home, etc as those are in my control.

[nain rouge]

I know this is somewhat [[?) unrelated, but I've seen strays all over the city and even had one follow me in Southwest Detroit. It was small enough of a dog that I wasn't worried too much, but it's indicative of a broader problem. I also had a large dog chase after me when I was on a bike near 10 & Gratiot. So there you go.

Bottom line, I'm sick of dogs. I don't care how cute you think Scruffy is. Dogs in urban environments are pests, and noisy on top of it.

[nain rouge]

Also, I won't get into specifics, but Temple Bar had/still probably has a dog that they allow[[ed) to run around in the bar. I won't get into specifics, but screw that dog. And yes, I was friendly to the dog and introduced myself. That dog just has an overexcited temperament for a bar.

[gazhekwe]

I found it interesting in the story I read about this. The police tried to entice the dogs away first. They had to shoot, and killed one of the dogs, then were able to get the other dogs in the house. No one was home. The dogs will be picked up and quarantined, and the dead dog was taken for testing. The final word was a cautious not that they do not know why the injured man was in the yard. It was obviously leaning back from final judgment on who or what was to blame.

Still, it seems to me that big potentially dangerous dogs in large numbers are a bad fit in any home, regardless of the intentions of the victim. Dogs don't have any way of knowing when deadly force is justified, and when to call it off on their own when the problem is defused.

[Gpwrangler]

I'm not necessarily attaching you, I am attacking your belief that personal responsibility will just fix everything. There are a lot of systematic issues that prevent citizens from getting things done: Citizens can't arrest people [[and please don't bring up citizens arrest), citizens can't climb poles and change lights, citizens don't have the means to fix potholes, etc.

I can try all day and call and complain and escalate, etc but there are simply some things I, as a citizen, can't address in the immediate term.

I can certainly cut my grass, pick up litter, maintain my home, etc as those are in my control.

you can form a tough neighborhood association and I'm not talking about tea parties. Yes you can change light bulbs. You can knock on doors as a group and hold neighbors accountable. You can get people to turn on their goddamned porch lights [[drives me nuts when people with porch lights won't turn them on but there's a 750 watt big screen going in the living room). You can even solve the stray dog problem. You have more control than you think. Yes, personal accountability is possible. Trust me, I've done it. System issues? Maybe but folks use that as an excuse way too much.

I grew up in a tough place. Don't give me the Grosse Pointe "you're rich and I'm a victim" story because I worked my ass off and still do, to get here and live here, and I'm far from well off. Lived in bad neighborhoods too, but a few tough neighbors and I took it on.

Don't give up.

[Dan Wesson]

Thirteen Pitbulls?

That's one hellava security system.

Not enough info on all the players yet to be making assumptions and bashing each other.

Dogs are a pain in the ass, trophy's, property, assets, warm and fuzzies while being dangerous at the same time.

It's the owners, a human problem.

[Danny]

13 pit bulls!!! Dog attacks. What is guy protecting? Its dope, marijuana or zombie drugs. Or his its dogs for illegal underground dog fights.

[Llama]

... or he's breeding them to sell for cash.

I absolutely hear what people are saying about neighbors fearing retaliation, and about [[still?) city non-response. Anyone know whether the city has any specific ordinances against keeping that many dogs?

This may well sound laughable, but if I was sure they were Pitts I'd probably contact one of the local bully-breeds rescue/defender groups and ask their help. I know they have quite the array of volunteer staff, even a lawyer if I correctly recall, and they're very, very good at PR. I'm sure they wouldn't think 13 dogs at that address was beneficial to the well-being of those dogs!