What one event would cause you to question Detroit's rebirth potential?

[anonJD]

I think we all agree there are still challenges, sure, but definitely signs of positive momentum around the city, especially the last five or so years. That said, volatility lurks, so is there one thing that would cause you to second guess the city's turnaround?

For me:
- Fail jail is allowed to be finished.
- M1 costs run tens of millions over-budget.
- Some sort of horrific crime within the Midtown and downtown safe zone involving a young intern or employee, a media darling if you will, which would send shockwaves to suburban parents and students, who make up the strongest candidates to give working & living in Detroit a chance. e.g. "I'll never send my daughter down there, not after what happened to Rachel."

[Hypestyles]

failure to bring some uptick of prosperity to the outlying neighborhoods.

[Bobl]

1: Crime
2: Crime
3: Crime
I'm fed up. Others are, too. If it doesn't change, so will investors.

[Gpwrangler]

Unchecked crime will do it. So would a riot.

[313WX]

I don't see much potential for a riot.

Most Detroiters at this point seem to be too defeated to resort to that, especially after seeing what happened to the city in the wake of the 1967 riots.

[Gpwrangler]

I don't see much potential for a riot.

Most Detroiters at this point seem to be too defeated to resort to that, especially after seeing what happened to the city in the wake of the 1967 riots.

I hope you're right but I'll stick to my statement. People are already nervous about buying homes in Detroit and 1967 is too far back for most yuppies to remember. A riot up close and personal would do it.

I looked in some real nice neighborhoods but decided against it when I learned there is no response to property crimes. And I remember 1967.

[animatedmartian]

Do people even need an event to question Detroit's rebirth? I thought we were still looking for evidence that Detroit was having a rebirth.

[TTime]

A business trip or vacation to anywhere other than Flint.

[mwilbert]

- Fail jail is allowed to be finished.

Not significant enough, nor a Detroit decision, so not an indication of insanity on the part of city government.

- M1 costs run tens of millions over-budget.

Don't see why that would matter at all [[nothing unusual about construction projects running well over budget), unless it prevented the M-1 from being completed. If it didn't get finished, it would be a negative. Which is why the people funding it will make sure it gets finished. Also not being managed by the city.

- Some sort of horrific crime within the Midtown and downtown safe zone involving a young intern or employee, a media darling if you will, which would send shockwaves to suburban parents and students, who make up the strongest candidates to give working & living in Detroit a chance. e.g. "I'll never send my daughter down there, not after what happened to Rachel."

No. People who are worried about specific incidents of crime [[as opposed to the general level of crime) are already hopeless cases for Detroit living.

failure to bring some uptick of prosperity to the outlying neighborhoods.

No, because you will never be able to say it won't happen the next year, or that it wouldn't be worse otherwise. But mainly because the outlying neighborhoods are irrelevant to the narrative--they aren't what is being reborn.

Do people even need an event to question Detroit's rebirth? I thought we were still looking for evidence that Detroit was having a rebirth.

I think this is probably right. Insofar as Detroit is having a rebirth, I don't think any of the above-mentioned things will prevent it, but while there are certainly many hopeful signs I would say the jury is still out.

Keep your eye on the core; the 7.2, and the east riverfront. As long as there is visible improvement there, and a reasonable amount of population growth, the story is intact. Improvements in other neighborhoods are a bonus.

[DetroitPlanner]

Easy, the construction of the Renaissance Center.

[Hamtragedy]

you mean that giant glass tombstone on the riverfront?

[Dan Wesson]

What one event would cause you to question Detroit's rebirth potential?

The same thing that does in most folks coming out of bankruptcy, they continue with the same old bad habits.

[SyGolden48236]

Mayor Duggan not offering an administrative position to Kevyn Orr after his contract expires, aside from the fact that Orr would probably not want any part of it. Orr is the best thing to happen to that city in decades.

Mayor Duggan not keeping James Craig on as Chief of Police. Craig is the second best thing to happen to that city in decades.

I know, that is two things. If it must be only one thing then take your pic. Either one would be bad. Both would be horrible.

[anonJD]

Mayor Duggan not offering an administrative position to Kevyn Orr after his contract expires, aside from the fact that Orr would probably not want any part of it. Orr is the best thing to happen to that city in decades.

Mayor Duggan not keeping James Craig on as Chief of Police. Craig is the second best thing to happen to that city in decades.

Not a chance in hell Orr sticks in Detroit unless Jones Day makes him some outrageous equity offer to keep the Detroit business pumping. The contrast in lifestyle between the wealthy burbs of D.C. to Detroit is too stark. I guarantee the only good part of his week is that first cocktail on his Friday Delta flight to DCA.

I don't believe Craig is effective. I think he manipulates data and loves seeing himself on TV. A guy in that high power and high paid position should have a real college education, not two online degrees.

[SyGolden48236]

I don't believe Craig is effective. I think he manipulates data and loves seeing himself on TV. A guy in that high power and high paid position should have a real college education, not two online degrees.

As I stated, I doubt that Orr would want to stay in Detroit. After all, what man with his credentials would want to stay in that city?

As to Chief Craig. What makes you think he has been manipulating data? That is quite the allegation. What evidence have you to support your claim?

As much as we do see Chief Craig on television, everyone that I have spoken to, on that subject, who lives or works in that city feels that he is doing a good job. He is instilling confidence in the citizenry and in the ranks of the officers as well.

[Bham1982]

The contrast in lifestyle between the wealthy burbs of D.C. to Detroit is too stark.

I doubt there's much of any "contrast in lifestyle". Apples-to-apples, lifestyle would be pretty similar.

If you're in the DC ghetto, it's like the Detroit ghetto. If you're in Bloomfield Hills, it's like Potomac or McLean.

[anonJD]

I doubt there's much of any "contrast in lifestyle". Apples-to-apples, lifestyle would be pretty similar.

If you're in the DC ghetto, it's like the Detroit ghetto. If you're in Bloomfield Hills, it's like Potomac or McLean.

Most powerful people in Metro Detroit vs. most powerful people in the United States. DIA vs. Kennedy Center. Steak houses vs. world-class restaurants. Michigan and MSU grads vs. Ivy, elite grad, law and medical school grads. People that live on the coasts for more than a few years become complete snobs about any and everything Midwest. Just the way it is.

[anonJD]

As I stated, I doubt that Orr would want to stay in Detroit. After all, what man with his credentials would want to stay in that city?

As to Chief Craig. What makes you think he has been manipulating data? That is quite the allegation. What evidence have you to support your claim?

As much as we do see Chief Craig on television, everyone that I have spoken to, on that subject, who lives or works in that city feels that he is doing a good job. He is instilling confidence in the citizenry and in the ranks of the officers as well.

Whether it's education, police, politics, etc. all of these leaders that report really dramatic year over year improvements are typically manipulating data. And he stopped reporting crime to the media. And his online degrees, failure to pass police exams in Ohio and Michigan, history in Cincinnati, and the infamous car jacking story don't pass the smell test. I think he's a clown.

[313WX]

I want to see how well Detroit fares in the next severe recession brewing within the next 24 months...

Remember, we also thought the rebirth of the city had begun before the 2008 stock market crash, when by 2010 the little progress that had been made in downtown/midtown had completely reversed and formerly livable neighborhoods had turned into war zones overnight.

With the lack of good-paying jobs being created in large numbers, and the subsequent huge population of people living in multi-generational poverty from the lack of good-paying jobs, and the subsequent high rate of crime from the huge number of people living in poverty, I'm not too bullish on Detroit ever coming back.

Just look at cities such as St. Louis and Cleveland, which also have yet to experience their rebirths and continue their decades-long decline despite having healthier city and state governments than Detroit...

And when I say "Detroit," I'm referring to the city as a whole.

[maverick1]

I want to see how well Detroit fares in the next severe recession brewing within the next 24 months...

Remember, we also thought the rebirth of the city had begun before the 2008 stock market crash, when by 2010 the little progress that had been made in downtown/midtown had completely reversed and formerly livable neighborhoods had turned into war zones overnight.

With the lack of good-paying jobs being created in large numbers, and the subsequent huge population of people living in multi-generational poverty from the lack of good-paying jobs, and the subsequent high rate of crime from the huge number of people living poverty, I'm not too bullish on Detroit ever coming back.

Just look at cities such as St. Louis and Cleveland, which also have yet to experience their rebirths and continue their decades-long decline despite having healthier city and state governments than Detroit...

And when I say "Detroit," I'm referring to the city as a whole.

This has been a problem that no one has tried to fix. Honestly no one cares about it. This has been a problem for 30 years. They hope they can bring in enough middle class and upper middle class people to counter this. IMHO it doesnt take much. You get enough jobs paying $15/hr-$20/hr things would change drastically. The goal should be to at least get the unemployment rate near the cities Detroit wants to compare itself to.

[313WX]

This has been a problem that no one has tried to fix. Honestly no one cares about it. This has been a problem for 30 years. They hope they can bring in enough middle class and upper middle class people to counter this. IMHO it doesnt take much. You get enough jobs paying $15/hr-$20/hr things would change drastically. The goal should be to at least get the unemployment rate near the cities Detroit wants to compare itself to.

The problem is that those jobs aren't being creating in large enough numbers to attract enough of these middle/upper class people to counter them. The auto industry is operating a lot leaner these days and have globalized a lot of operations since the recent recession. The fact of the matter is, unless another Henry Ford comes along and invents something akin to the automobile, the prosperity Michigan had in the late 90s/early 2000s will not be returning, as there's no longer a need for the Auto Industry to hire as many people at wages as high as they did in the past.

The other problem, too, is that these middle/upper class people don't want to live amongst the lower class of people in question because of their toxic culture. These people don't want to live in neighborhoods where everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to come together & beat the living daylight out of a guy over an accident or throw things at firefighters.

[maverick1]

The problem is that those jobs aren't being creating in large enough numbers to attract enough of these middle/upper class people to counter them. The auto industry is operating a lot leaner these days and have globalized a lot of operations since the recent recession. The fact of the matter is, unless another Henry Ford comes along and invents something akin to the automobile, the prosperity Michigan had in the late 90s/early 2000s will not be returning, as there's no longer a need for the Auto Industry to hire as many people at wages as high as they did in the past.

The other problem, too, is that these middle/upper class people don't want to live amongst the lower class of people in question because of their toxic culture. These people don't want to live in neighborhoods where everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to come together & beat the living daylight out of a guy over an accident or throw things at firefighters.

I agree. Especially about the jobs. There aren't enough white collar jobs outside the auto industry here. That makes it tough to attract those that are middle and upper middle class. I know more than a few professionals living in expensive cities that want out. Detroit could attract so many of them if there is opportunity here for them. I think what gets ignored here is the lack of diversity in demographics and income. You don't need a lot of them. Just enough to make a difference and make the city sustainable.

[Hermod]

The other problem, too, is that these middle/upper class people don't want to live amongst the lower class of people in question because of their toxic culture. These people don't want to live in neighborhoods where everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to come together & beat the living daylight out of a guy over an accident or throw things at firefighters.

You are proposing to commit cultural genocide by imposing your patriarchal Euro-centric cultural mores on the rich culture developed over the years by the good people of Detroit.

[TKshreve]

With the lack of good-paying jobs being created in large numbers, and the subsequent huge population of people living in multi-generational poverty from the lack of good-paying jobs, and the subsequent high rate of crime from the huge number of people living in poverty, I'm not too bullish on Detroit ever coming back.

You post suggests that a lack of high paying jobs is to blame for the onslaught of poverty that plagues Detroit. I'm sure you believe the issue runs deeper than that. I'd go farther in attributing blame to the broken school system which left tens of thousands of students high-and-dry when it came to finding ample employment. That in turn brought forth generational poverty. Add into that broken homes with no motivational encouragement to rise up above the inherent challenge and it only exacerbates itself.

A good metaphor would be a toilet bowl circling.

The problem is that those jobs aren't being creating in large enough numbers to attract enough of these middle/upper class people to counter them. The auto industry is operating a lot leaner these days and have globalized a lot of operations since the recent recession. The fact of the matter is, unless another Henry Ford comes along and invents something akin to the automobile, the prosperity Michigan had in the late 90s/early 2000s will not be returning, as there's no longer a need for the Auto Industry to hire as many people at wages as high as they did in the past.

The other problem, too, is that these middle/upper class people don't want to live amongst the lower class of people in question because of their toxic culture. These people don't want to live in neighborhoods where everyone thinks it's perfectly acceptable to come together & beat the living daylight out of a guy over an accident or throw things at firefighters.

But here you do touch on a truly direct item of importance. The culture is in question when we consider re-gentrification and population growth. Putting aside the hipster invasion of the 2010's, it's pressing to find any other generational groups who are moving into the city in any substantial numbers. The city is still emptying out in reality. And broken schools give way to broken lifestyles; which give way to broken culture. You need only look at how people drive within city limits to understand how they treat one another - and most of all - how they would treat you.

[nain rouge]

If you're in the DC ghetto, it's like the Detroit ghetto. If you're in Bloomfield Hills, it's like Potomac or McLean.

Um, you missed the part where DC isn't all a ghetto. You can take your children to the free Smithsonian museums. You can expose them to diverse urban areas like Chinatown and U Street. In Detroit, you can take a drive on Cass and hope the DIA doesn't lose its art.


In DC, the suburbs are booming and optimistic with new retail, while Metro Detroit is more of a mixed bag. Though Metro Detroit has suburban attractions, you can't beat places like Mount Vernon.

I know more than a few professionals living in expensive cities that want out. Detroit could attract so many of them if there is opportunity here for them.

Cities like Indianapolis, Des Moines, Columbus, Madison, and etc. are hoovering people like that up by presenting that ideal match of low cost of living with just enough urban edginess to make you feel like you didn't just move to Macomb Township.


You'll also notice that those cities are state capitals. We really messed up in Michigan by taking both the capital AND the major state university out of Detroit. If you don't have an asset like that in the modern Midwest, you're almost screwed. Lansing and Ann Arbor would resemble Jackson or Battle Creek without the largesse of the public [[actually, Lansing probably wouldn't exist). We're propping those cities up at the cost of our bigger, more important cities.


Minnesota's Twin Cities are set up ingeniously in that St. Paul is the capital, and Minneapolis is the home of University of Minnesota. In Michigan, everyone outside of Detroit has always wanted to beat up on Detroit, and look where that has gotten us. Of couse, it's too little too late to move either the capital or the university, but you'd think we'd have at least learned from our mistakes.