Going to be a wild afternoon/evening in Detroit today

[emu steve]

That, of course, would be Tigers and Lions in a de facto doubleheader.

[313WX]

Rush hour's going to be hell...

[bailey]

Ok.. all this is great to see. However, does it strike anyone as a bit silly that an entire city can be shut down by having two sporting events taking place on the same day on a monday? I mean courts are shutting down, announcements went out encouraging work from home or leave early...etc...

Its a baseball and a football game. not the apocalypse. sheesh.

[313WX]

Ok.. all this is great to see. However, does it strike anyone as a bit silly that an entire city can be shut down by having two sporting events taking place on the same day on a monday? I mean courts are shutting down, announcements went out encouraging work from home or leave early...etc...

Its a baseball and a football game. not the apocalypse. sheesh.

1. Detroit's not a normal city. It's not typical to see these types of crowds in the CBD. Most people, as a result, don't know how to handle it.

2. Most other cities don't have two major league sports stadiums in such close proximity to each other. Having so many people that close together will cause a big mess of things.

[EastsideAl]

I wonder why they are starting the Tigers game at 4, before a Lions game at 7? Given the length of most major league baseball games these days [[3+ hours) this almost guarantees traffic chaos, unavailable parking, and a giant snarl.

Since the timing of the Lions game is dictated by national TV considerations, wouldn't it have made much more sense for the Tigers start to be moved to 1 or 2? Even people going to both games would probably find that much more convenient. And that would give the fans at the Tigers game half a chance to get out of the way before the Lions traffic peaked, and potentially allow Lions fans more available parking spaces.

It's not like anyone involved couldn't have seen this coming from the time the NFL schedule was announced several months ago. It really doesn't make much sense at all.

[Hypestyles]

I just hope the buses work. I have to get home.

[bailey]

1. Detroit's not a normal city. It's not typical to see these types of crowds in the CBD. Most people, as a result, don't know how to handle it.

final four, frozen four, allstar game, superbowl, couple of world series, Stanley cups... all in the last decade. Plus this isn't the only time the Tigs and Lions have overlapped. right? Shouldn't we as a region sort of "get it" by now? Its the lead off story on every news cast. TRAFFIC CHAOS!!!111!! WHERETO PARKR!!!!22!!! TEH GAAAAAAMZ!!!1!!!11!!!

2. Most other cities don't have two major league sports stadiums in such close proximity to each other. Having so many people that close together will cause a big mess of things.

true. many other cities don't do stupid shit like build single use stadiums and then pack them all into massive super blocks. They actually do urban planning and not go by George Jackson's SimCity games.

[Detroit Stylin]

Not to mention Slow Roll Monday Night is happening tonight as well

[Gannon]

Not to mention Slow Roll Monday Night is happening tonight as well

Have they ever Slow-Rolled through the Lions' tailgator parties?!

This one'll be video-worthy...

[Scottathew]

If they would have planned better and did a 1pm Tiger game the parking spaces would have been freed up in time for the Lions fans to use them.

I choose to avoid it all and not work in Detroit today. I would imagine the surface lots on Madison are probably asking $40 per spot.

[emu steve]

I should have titled the thread: Super Monday in the D.

[emu steve]

If they would have planned better and did a 1pm Tiger game the parking spaces would have been freed up in time for the Lions fans to use them.

I choose to avoid it all and not work in Detroit today. I would imagine the surface lots on Madison are probably asking $40 per spot.

Not sure they wanted a "day/night doubleheader".

I think Tiger/Lion fans prefer the back to back.

[DetroitPlanner]

Rush hour's going to be hell...

Lets give those driverless cars out there here for ITS World Congress a real workout!

[DetroitPlanner]

true. many other cities don't do stupid shit like build single use stadiums and then pack them all into massive super blocks. They actually do urban planning and not go by George Jackson's SimCity games.

For most games this is an asset. It means half the amount of parking lots as the spots are shared. Grouping them also gives businesses such as the Detroit Beer Company or Cheli's a lot more busy nights than they would have if these were spaced apart.

The real issue is that today Woodward is closed and most folks only know a few streets downtown. If you avoid the streets that they know you will be fine. I am amazed that on days like this that you don't see more traffic on Washington, Broadway or Randolph.

[emu steve]

For most games this is an asset. It means half the amount of parking lots as the spots are shared. Grouping them also gives businesses such as the Detroit Beer Company or Cheli's a lot more busy nights than they would have if these were spaced apart.

The real issue is that today Woodward is closed and most folks only know a few streets downtown. If you avoid the streets that they know you will be fine. I am amazed that on days like this that you don't see more traffic on Washington, Broadway or Randolph.

I was in town for Jeter's last game [[Thurs afternoon game) and streets were a mess because of Woodward.

I got trapped in the lot on Henry at Woodward. One way street toward Woodward. Couldn't head west to Clifford.

Agree that having two stadiums makes it better for eateries. And will get better when the arena is built. Especially for hockeytown.

[bailey]

For most games this is an asset. It means half the amount of parking lots as the spots are shared. Grouping them also gives businesses such as the Detroit Beer Company or Cheli's a lot more busy nights than they would have if these were spaced apart.

So that is why all of north CBD is a vast sea of surface parking? because it's more efficient and our city planners thought it was a good idea? /sarc.

The real issue is that today Woodward is closed and most folks only know a few streets downtown. If you avoid the streets that they know you will be fine. I am amazed that on days like this that you don't see more traffic on Washington, Broadway or Randolph.

Which goes back to 313's comment...

Detroit's not a normal city.

[Bham1982]

Ok.. all this is great to see. However, does it strike anyone as a bit silly that an entire city can be shut down by having two sporting events taking place on the same day on a monday? I mean courts are shutting down, announcements went out encouraging work from home or leave early...etc...

Its a baseball and a football game. not the apocalypse. sheesh.

This is what happens when you put sports stadia right downtown. They disrupt "regular" activity and are rarely much of a benefit during "normal" business hours.

That's probably in part why, traditionally, most thriving cities have put their major stadia outside the city center. It's a disruption, not an amenity. It's really only a net positive if your city center is kind of empty, so not much activity to displace.

Imagine if a couple decides to have a nice meal tonight. They're not doing it downtown. That's lost business activity that is never accounted for in these nonsense stadium economic projections.

[DetroitPlanner]

This is what happens when you put sports stadia right downtown. They disrupt "regular" activity and are rarely much of a benefit during "normal" business hours.

That's probably in part why, traditionally, most thriving cities have put their major stadia outside the city center. It's a disruption, not an amenity. It's really only a net positive if your city center is kind of empty, so not much activity to displace.

Imagine if a couple decides to have a nice meal tonight. They're not doing it downtown. That's lost business activity that is never accounted for in these nonsense stadium economic projections.

As part of a nearly 2 decade old trend, nearly all new stadiums and arenas have been built in or near the CDB. Please city your source.

[iheartthed]

This is what happens when you put sports stadia right downtown. They disrupt "regular" activity and are rarely much of a benefit during "normal" business hours.

That's probably in part why, traditionally, most thriving cities have put their major stadia outside the city center. It's a disruption, not an amenity. It's really only a net positive if your city center is kind of empty, so not much activity to displace.

I think most cities put stadiums outside of the city center because the land is too expensive to build them at the center.

From a traffic planning perspective it actually makes sense to put stadiums in the city center because that is usually the most equally accessible part of the region, and also the part of the region with the infrastructure best equipped to handle large crowds.

[iheartthed]

As part of a nearly 2 decade old trend, nearly all new stadiums and arenas have been built in or near the CDB. Please city your source.

Barclays Center, Yankee Stadium.

[Bham1982]

As part of a nearly 2 decade old trend, nearly all new stadiums and arenas have been built in or near the CDB. Please city your source.

Not even close to true, and not even my point. Re-read the post.

Most of the most thriving cities have their sports stadia outside the city center. Everything in London, everything in Paris, everything in NYC except for MSG [[and that will be demolished and moved).

Even in the U.S., in the most thriving cities, the major football/baseball stadia are not usually in the city core. NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly, SF, DC, etc. tend to have their venues on the fringes or completely outside the city centers.

The cities that tend to have everything in the city core tend to have pretty dead city cores [[Detroit, Cleveland, Indy, Atlanta, etc.).

But my bigger point isn't whether cities decide to make the same decisions re. sports stadia, but whether sports stadia help downtown cores. They generally don't. They aren't economic development, they displace activity, they have very limited usage, and they force massive moats of parking. They just aren't very good at fostering urbanism or economic activity.

[bailey]

Imagine if a couple decides to have a nice meal tonight. They're not doing it downtown. That's lost business activity that is never accounted for in these nonsense stadium economic projections.

Yeah, because there are going to be a lot of empty seats at bars and restaurants tonight.

[Gistok]

Yeah, because there are going to be a lot of empty seats at bars and restaurants tonight.

There's no point arguing with him about that... we went thru this same discussion about spin off from JLA and all the restaurants and bars that benefited [[or didn't during the last walkout). He talks anecdotally about a couple not going downtown to eat tonight... entirely glossing over the fact that all the restaurants and bars will be jam packed because of the sporting events. He seems to have ignored all the links about studies I gave him last time that contradicted his argument... only to rehash his point of view all over again....

[bailey]

There's no point arguing with him about that... we went thru this same discussion about spin off from JLA and all the restaurants and bars that benefited [[or didn't during the last walkout). He talks anecdotally about a couple not going downtown to eat tonight... entirely glossing over the fact that all the restaurants and bars will be jam packed because of the sporting events. He seems to have ignored all the links about studies I gave him last time that contradicted his argument... only to rehash his point of view all over again....

The overall point of plunking a single use stadium surrounded by a moat of parking being a stupid plan is true though. As you sort of prove... Red Wings go on strike, businesses fold because literally no one else is going to come in because there is nothing else there.

[iheartthed]

The overall point of plunking a single use stadium surrounded by a moat of parking being a stupid plan is true though. As you sort of prove... Red Wings go on strike, businesses fold because literally no one else is going to come in because there is nothing else there.

Or Red Wings season ends, nobody is there for 6 months out of the year. Completely different from if the space was occupied by a couple of office towers filled with workers for 50 weeks a year. I know someone is going to say "but nobody wanted to build a tower," so let me just preempt it by saying that's beside the point. In a region with healthy land use economics it wouldn't make sense to put a stadium in the middle of the CBD.