Quick question: Are these architectural monstrosities occupied

**YounginDetroit** · August-10-14, 10:55 AM

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3585...oAPumf9oFA!2e0

**Mackinaw** · August-10-14, 11:21 AM

Well that's a good question. Hate the front facing garages-- those should be banned in the zoning law-- but somebody had the right idea by trying to rebuild East Village streets close to Jefferson there. All is not lost with that kind of location.

**YounginDetroit** · August-10-14, 11:42 AM

I see developments like those in the strangest neighborhoods. Like Vernor and Gratiot or East Village or Grand River and MLK. It seems what could be someday be really cool neighborhoods are ruined by this tacky kind of development. I would love to see a Lincoln Park[[Chicago) style of developments with 3-4 storied flats victorian style architecture[[Sorry for bringing up Chicago but i was just there). Detroit needs to get its act together, wannabe suburban developments will not bring the city back, density and beautiful architecture will help neighborhoods comeback its not too late but get rid of this shit.

**Zacha341** · August-10-14, 11:50 AM

Garage overkill...

... I don't like them either but they were built to be affordable if not long standing!

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Well that's a good question. Hate the front facing garages-- those should be banned in the zoning law-- but somebody had the right idea by trying to rebuild East Village streets close to Jefferson there. All is not lost with that kind of location.

**Hermod** · August-10-14, 12:11 PM

While a front loading garage detracts from the appearance of the house, it does allow for narrower lot lines and thus increased density. Try designing a house with a two car garage on very narrow lot lines and not have it front loading. A corner house can have a side loading garage. A detached garage or a rear loading garage requires a lot line wide enough to have a driveway up the side of the house..

**cla1945** · August-10-14, 12:20 PM

I remember Hibbard Street being a residential street with some very big old two, three story homes. Many of them had much Detroit history in them. Then they became abandoned, boarded up, burned out homes before these "monstrosities" were built. If people really cared about the neighborhood, there wouldn't have been a need to build these homes. Some people don't have any reverence for history or historical landmarks and much of Detroit's history has been destroyed. Be thankful that someone rebuilt....but my gut tells me that they will become abandoned, boarded up, burned out before too long.

**poobert** · August-10-14, 01:37 PM

Who the hell thought the way to bring Detroit back was to try to turn it into the most ghetto suburb imaginable?

Meanwhile in the two areas that are predominantly high density apartment buildings you have 99% occupancy.

It's like everybody hits their fucking head or something right before they take office here.

**maverick1** · August-10-14, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Who the hell thought the way to bring Detroit back was to try to turn it into the most ghetto suburb imaginable?

Meanwhile in the two areas that are predominantly high density apartment buildings you have 99% occupancy.

It's like everybody hits their fucking head or something right before they take office here.

This was such a bad idea. What's really bad is that not only is it a subdivision in a city but a subdivision on the waterfront with no access to the waterfront. I think it was advertised as "suburban living in the city".

**Cliffy** · August-10-14, 01:55 PM

Not sure why all the outrage. Just a small street with some houses. I'd rather have this up with people living there then some open field with nothing. We are beggars who are choosers.

**rooms222** · August-10-14, 02:33 PM

There has been a slight trend where only 89% of new housing units are built with a garage, down from 93%, but with security, safety and snow issues, almost anyone that is going to have a car in a new development is going to want a garage in all but the densest and most secure areas of Detroit. When I was looking at a Coop in Detroit that my coworker was resident in, its lack of secured parking was a deal breaker. She told me most residents had had a car break-in or two every decade.

**hybridy** · August-10-14, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

While a front loading garage detracts from the appearance of the house, it does allow for narrower lot lines and thus increased density. Try designing a house with a two car garage on very narrow lot lines and not have it front loading. A corner house can have a side loading garage. A detached garage or a rear loading garage requires a lot line wide enough to have a driveway up the side of the house..

Lets not reinvent the wheel. Alley loaded garages are commonplace in Detroit and are appearing more and more in newer urbanesque development. Front porches on the street should be the norm. More eyes on the street makes for stronger neighborhoods.

**Jason** · August-10-14, 03:22 PM

imo the garage issue is a typology issue. The site may not have been conducive to single family detached houses, but if they were row houses there would have been enough width to accommodate street frontage for both the garage and the home itself. But row houses have issues with zoning, and ownership type [[the money might not have been for condos). And of course home builders only know how to do build houses.

The problem with these things is that different organizations get government or other money to build this stuff, but because of the bureaucracy, regulations, complexity, number of different people/interests involved, what land can be acquired, etc. it happens really haphazardly. These kinds of developments are scattered all over the city. There'll just be a random row of houses in the ghetto that doesn't make the neighborhood stable or cohesive [[and thus make the houses somewhere you'd want to live). Also, there's not a shortage of either "single family houses in the hood" or "builder houses in the suburbs" or even "suburban apartment complexes" so at the regional level these aren't things you'd expect to have much value in and of themselves. In a way these projects pick their own game and pick a game that they're almost ensured to lose at.

I think these programs are very important but have the capacity to be much more effective. I think too much effort and money goes into demolition instead of construction.

**Hermod** · August-10-14, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

Lets not reinvent the wheel. Alley loaded garages are commonplace in Detroit and are appearing more and more in newer urbanesque development. Front porches on the street should be the norm. More eyes on the street makes for stronger neighborhoods.

How many alleys has the city "decommissioned"? Alleys are no where near as prevalent in the city as they were 50 years ago.

**Danny** · August-10-14, 06:56 PM

Why are you all DYERS complaining about those suburban-like mega ranches on Hibbard St.? I don't see anyone writing about the mega suburban like homes in Virginia Park Homes in the west side. If developers went to renew certain Detroit ghetto-hoods that's fine with me. It's time to wall the ex-urban sprawl and re-occupy inner cities.

**Zacha341** · August-10-14, 07:18 PM

None of those houses are really 'mega', they are one-story, front garage format somewhat compact homes.

**Jason** · August-10-14, 07:31 PM

I think the problem with garages on alleys is that if people are using their cars, then the alley, garage and backyard effectively become the functional front entrance and the street becomes a symbolic entrance that's looked at through windows more than it's actually used.

The problem is more obvious in some suburban mainstreets where there are older buildings along the street, with the parking behind them, expanded from the alley. What ends up happening is that the back of the building where the parking lot is becomes the front entrance, where the register is, and the original front of the building is closed off or barely used. Closing the alleys also gives bigger backyards and less public space and infrastructure that needs to be maintained. A benefit to alleys is that they're informal spaces where kids can go [[so much that it's part of americana) but that's the only benefit that I'm aware of. imo any resurgence of alleys is based on a shallow copying of obsolete "traditional" forms.

**313WX** · August-10-14, 09:01 PM

To all of you folks getting in uproar about this structure, what else do you expect? They don't build the houses that previously occupied that lower east side block any more, especially not in a place like Detroit.

I chalk it up, essentially, to shrinking pains in the 21st century....

**poobert** · August-10-14, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

To all of you folks getting in uproar about this structure, what else do you expect? They don't build the houses that previously occupied that lower east side block any more, especially not in a place like Detroit.

I chalk it up, essentially, to shrinking pains in the 21st century....

You act like everybody forgot how to build anything that isn't a Macomb Township McMansion.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9006...ysk-NwtTkA!2e0

Somewhat random thriving Chicago neighborhood I am familiar with. New construction coexists side-by-side with historical structures.

But the sad part is, you're not wrong. Not in Metro Detroit. No, the thinking here is, "How can we recreate Novi, except in the ghetto? What could possibly go wrong??"

Is it something in the water?

**animatedmartian** · August-11-14, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Why are you all DYERS complaining about those suburban-like mega ranches on Hibbard St.? I don't see anyone writing about the mega suburban like homes in Virginia Park Homes in the west side. If developers went to renew certain Detroit ghetto-hoods that's fine with me. It's to wall the ex-urban sprawl and re-occupy inner cities.

Those homes actually aren't as bad mostly because they aren't on narrow lots and actually have ample room around them.

"McMansions" on narrow lots [[and in general) look horrible, and not just in Detroit. Check out these ones in Dearborn:

http://goo.gl/maps/ER6mP
http://goo.gl/maps/4LBCu
http://goo.gl/maps/2Gu0u

This sort of style of architecture only looks "right" when it's on a wider lot and not a narrow one.

I'd personally be fine if homes like these in Jefferson-Chalmers were built in vacant areas of the city, or these cheaper ones in working class neighborhoods, but not on some 20x120 lot where it looks squashed and out of proportion.

**royce** · August-11-14, 04:25 AM

Yes, these houses are occupied. Actually, the last house to the right or closest to Jefferson was occupied last, maybe within the last year or two. It appears that a small time developer bought the land and built these houses with the hope that they would appeal to someone. Well, they're all occupied so I guess it worked.

Personally, I wouldn't say that they are monstrosities. Take away the garage and they're actually quite small. A better word to described them is "hideous." One reason I believe they are so is because the garages take up so much of the houses' footprints. Also, there's zero to little landscaping. The house at the corner of Hibbard and Agnes has not only a wide drive way, but a semi-circle drive way right in front of the house. Why?

I remember when these houses were being built. They must have had buyers already because I never recall seeing them advertised for sale. Just speculation, but maybe the developer was trying to create the Jefferson Village development, but on a smaller scale. Like the homes in Jefferson Village, these have those front facing, huge two car garages up front, except the one at Hibbard and Ages. I think something more aesthetic could have been built but this is what the developer wanted. Like someone said earlier, I guess something there is better than a weed-strewn field.

**Mackinaw** · August-11-14, 09:29 AM

I agree with Royce, and I add that this is really Ex. A on the need for appropriate zoning restrictions. The developer interest, if minor, is there, and merely needs to be channeled. I have no doubt that the developer could simply turn a couple more pages in their prefab home book and find model houses with detached garages or garages attached but entered at the rear of the house. Would an extra 30 feet of pavement sink the development...probably not.

**motz** · August-11-14, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

Lets not reinvent the wheel. Alley loaded garages are commonplace in Detroit and are appearing more and more in newer urbanesque development. Front porches on the street should be the norm. More eyes on the street makes for stronger neighborhoods.

I really like this idea. I wish the alleys in Detroit weren't decommissioned and were better taken care of. The alleys are great for either cutting through an area, or for a garage that doesn't have to be slapped on the front of the house. You see it all over Woodbridge and it definitely helps with keeping some parking available on the street.

**Detroitnerd** · August-11-14, 11:35 AM

Couple things going on here.

For the most part, local contractors only know how to design and build for the suburbs.

For the most part, city residents and many of the people developers are catering to have outdated ideas that "city" means "poor" and "suburban" equals "well-off." Not by a long shot, as successful rehabs in Corktown demonstrate.

**Detroitnerd** · August-11-14, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

I think the problem with garages on alleys is that if people are using their cars, then the alley, garage and backyard effectively become the functional front entrance and the street becomes a symbolic entrance that's looked at through windows more than it's actually used.

The problem is more obvious in some suburban mainstreets where there are older buildings along the street, with the parking behind them, expanded from the alley. What ends up happening is that the back of the building where the parking lot is becomes the front entrance, where the register is, and the original front of the building is closed off or barely used. Closing the alleys also gives bigger backyards and less public space and infrastructure that needs to be maintained. A benefit to alleys is that they're informal spaces where kids can go [[so much that it's part of americana) but that's the only benefit that I'm aware of. imo any resurgence of alleys is based on a shallow copying of obsolete "traditional" forms.

Hey, it's only "obsolete" if you think it is.

What I think you're missing is that traditional neighborhoods have traditional local businesses, and residents actually walk to the stores and hang out with their neighbors. If you're just going to do everything by car, yes, the back door becomes the front door and the front of the space becomes merely decorative. But in Hamtramck, where we have alleys and garages, we also have lots to get at the corner, and walk quite a bit.

**softailrider** · August-11-14, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Not sure why all the outrage. Just a small street with some houses. I'd rather have this up with people living there then some open field with nothing. We are beggars who are choosers.

I feel the same way. The 1920's brick houses that ere built there should have been good for the next 50 years if they were cared for. This is WAY better then nothing. I've seen other new construction in the city that's way worse.