Testimony: McBride pounded on homeowner's door before being fatally shot

[Wheels]

Are you expecting an answer from people on this forum?

Another trial by jury for the victim. There is a victim in this case; the deceased.

I think you should rephrase your question entirely. Put all these words in the order I put them in: Why didnt he call the police?

Why would you not want to know all the facts before making any kind of judgment?

[Wesley Mouch]

The defense attorney is sure making the prosecution prove their case. It is a tragedy all around. And I'm willing to believe that the defendant was scared sh**less, and that led him to open fire.

But.

While 1953 says he would have probably opened fire in this situation, the question is, "Why wouldn't you have waited til they had breached the perimeter?

My brother had a friend in one of the suburbs whose father was an FBI agent. In high school -- and this was before cellphones and texting, etc. -- my brother showed up at his friends house, and knocked on the front door. No answer. So he walked around and started knocking on the side door and then some of the windows.

My brother's friend hadn't gotten back from school yet and was running late. But it turns out his father was napping, and he awoke to the sound of pounding on some of the windows. Frightened, he also drew his weapon and was ready to shoot. But he decided not to fire until he heard the sound of broken glass and saw someone trying to enter through the window. Soon he recognized my brother's voice, and let him in the front door, and tragedy was averted.

Here's the point. It's very plausible that the defendant is a good person. It's also very plausible that this all an accident.

When I weigh the actions of the deceased against the actions of the defendant, they're both clearly irresponsible. Clearly. But the final burden falls on the one who opened the door to fire the weapon. Obviously none of this would have happened if she hadn't scared the bejeezus out of this man. But it also could have been avoided had he simply drawn his weapon and been ready to fire instead of engaging with the victim.

IMHO, Guilty Verdict.

Disappointed in ya, CTY. Innocent until proven guilty is a very good way to decide these things.

I think there's a 95% chance this guy behaved badly. Should have been more careful. Should have called police. Should have...

So there's little doubt in my mind that he caused her death.

But there's this little idea that protects us. Don't convict without proof.

[Downriviera]

This post reads to me like quite a convincing argument for prohibiting people from keeping guns in their houses. If being tired and disoriented is all it takes to turn a Responsible Gun Owner into a homicidal menace, then it doesn't really sound to me like there's any meaningful distinction between Responsible Gun Owners and the other kind of gun owners who are really fucking dangerous and scary. I'm just saying.

You're calling this guy a homicidal menace? What about all the homeowners that have killed intruders and home invaders lately. Are they homicidal menaces too? And you want to take guns away from homeowners? Way too many criminals with guns to do that. 40 years ago she would have banged on the house and someone would have come out and helped her. Sadly, we do not live in those times anymore.

[gazhekwe]

Why didn't he call the police indeed? Why not turn on the light and find the cell phone before he decides to take the law into his own dopey confused inept hands?

And where does it say anywhere that she was going around the house pounding on windows and shouting? If she had done that, it seems the neighbors likely would have been wakened as well.

[Vic01]

^^^ Yep, guilty.

I've been curious as to what kind of shotgun Wafer used. Appears to be a modified version of a Remington: Pistol grip, below 24" short barrel.

Legal? I've not heard the any mention otherwise on the news feeds.

Several manufacturers offer LEGAL, stock versions like this for home defense. From the Mossberg site the "Cruiser", 18.5 inch barrel -
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-500-6-shot-8-shot-500-cruiser/50440?u_barrel=18.5%22+@18.5~0&nodeRef=2579,2573,2 576&redirect=1&filterNodes=2576,2579

[EastsideAl]

40 years ago she would have banged on the house and someone would have come out and helped her. Sadly, we do not live in those times anymore.

What Detroit did you live in 40 years ago? 40 years ago she would have been just another dead n----r who "shouldn't have been" where she was. The suburban police department would have reported that she was trying to break in and was shot in self-defense, and that would have been that. In that sense, at least, there has been some progress.

[canuck]

Why didn't he call the police indeed? Why not turn on the light and find the cell phone before he decides to take the law into his own dopey confused inept hands?

And where does it say anywhere that she was going around the house pounding on windows and shouting? If she had done that, it seems the neighbors likely would have been wakened as well.

There seems to be a whole lot of information about this woman; none of it positive. On the other hand, we are lead to believe the home defender was terrorized to the ultimate point. The need for self defense with more guns is ridiculously overplayed. The love of guns has a lot more to do with it than actual defense. Most Americans don't want guns and don't want to be near guns but the need to peddle them drives the gun lobby. It's the butt end of the military industrial complex that is at reduced capacity. The price to pay is immense.

More guns in the hands of criminals and incompetent nuts. Please help us connect the dots. Please don't tell me more education and training is the answer when we know the disaster is a result of too many guns delivered indiscriminately. It follows the all too familiar pattern of blatant consumerism and mistrust and fear whereby humans sell unneeded shit to other lonely disaffected humans. Dog help us.

[rex]

I still cant for the life of me understand why the guy opened his door to begin with. If you fear for your safety shouldnt you stay behind the safety of your locked door. Makes no sense. I never open my door for a stranger. I dont care if they see me sitting at my table as they walk up as often happens. Im simply not interested

[ABetterDetroit]

I still cant for the life of me understand why the guy opened his door to begin with. If you fear for your safety shouldnt you stay behind the safety of your locked door. Makes no sense. I never open my door for a stranger. I dont care if they see me sitting at my table as they walk up as often happens. Im simply not interested

Easy, because he is a ignorant, aggressive cold blooded murderer. Any normal man man would have assessed the situation and determined that:

#1 The pounding was outside the house NOT inside
#2 Felt zero immediate threat from the OUTSIDE pounding while holding a loaded gun INSIDE
#3 Felt secure enough to find the damn phone and call police while holding a loaded gun INSIDE his own home while the pounding was continuing unabated and getting even louder as lights came on in the house but yet was still OUTSIDE the house on the front porch.

Any man who still feels fear from what's outside the house while holding a loaded weapon in his hands inside his house is not a man at all, more like a wuss. Any man that feels that they can open the door and just blow away whomever is pounding on the door is nothing more than a killer.

[corktownyuppie]

Disappointed in ya, CTY. Innocent until proven guilty is a very good way to decide these things.

I think there's a 95% chance this guy behaved badly. Should have been more careful. Should have called police. Should have...

So there's little doubt in my mind that he caused her death.

But there's this little idea that protects us. Don't convict without proof.

That is fair, and I didnt intend to mean that my "verdict" is final. What I meant is, based on what I know right now, and based on what seems to be the defendant's thesis on which he bases the justification for shooting, then my opinion is what it is. But only a fool ignores new information to justify his opinion.

Let the trial proceed, and I will weigh in once both sides have made their case.

The question for which I need to hear an answer is "why did he open the door if he was scared?" And if he was frightened, why did he choose to draw his weapon, instead of simply slamming the door shut?"

[Hermod]

The question for which I need to hear an answer is "why did he open the door if he was scared?" And if he was frightened, why did he choose to draw his weapon, instead of simply slamming the door shut?"

How do you "draw" a shotgun?

[Hermod]

Most Americans don't want guns and don't want to be near guns but the need to peddle them drives the gun lobby. It's the butt end of the military industrial complex that is at reduced capacity. The price to pay is immense.

Most of the guns in private hands at this time were made by manufacturers that haven't seen a military contract since 1945.

[Kevgoblue]

Why didn't he call the police indeed? Why not turn on the light and find the cell phone before he decides to take the law into his own dopey confused inept hands?

And where does it say anywhere that she was going around the house pounding on windows and shouting? If she had done that, it seems the neighbors likely would have been wakened as well.

When I initially read of the incident it said that she was laying dead on the front porch. It said that the police determined that there were no signs of forced entry. It said nothing of her walking circles around the house banging on doors. It said nothing of footprints in the flowerbeds by the window. The hired ME said that the cuts on her hand were from banging, trying to get in the house. Yet there were no broken windows, no busted out screens, no damage to the door. When the guy opened the door and saw a 19 year old girl, was he still terrified of what she was going to do to him?

This whole version of the story is surfacing only after 4 months of preparing with a defense attorney. Why anyone believes that it is anything but a fabrication of the truth, created to try to save this guys' sorry ass is beyond me.

[canuck]

When I initially read of the incident it said that she was laying dead on the front porch. It said that the police determined that there were no signs of forced entry. It said nothing of her walking circles around the house banging on doors. It said nothing of footprints in the flowerbeds by the window. The hired ME said that the cuts on her hand were from banging, trying to get in the house. Yet there were no broken windows, no busted out screens, no damage to the door. When the guy opened the door and saw a 19 year old girl, was he still terrified of what she was going to do to him?

This whole version of the story is surfacing only after 4 months of preparing with a defense attorney. Why anyone believes that it is anything but a fabrication of the truth, created to try to save this guys' sorry ass is beyond me.

Plenty of nice folks ready to help his sorry ass out, I guess.

[Zacha341]

Picking it up prepare to use, aim, finger on the trigger one can argue I imagine. After 'racking', pumping to enter a round in the chamber.

How do you "draw" a shotgun?

[Zacha341]

Hah! Good comment EA. For sure this could have been the world view and outcome in Dearborn circa 1974!!

What Detroit did you live in 40 years ago? 40 years ago she would have been just another dead n----r who "shouldn't have been" where she was. The suburban police department would have reported that she was trying to break in and was shot in self-defense, and that would have been that. In that sense, at least, there has been some progress.

[Zacha341]

Interesting! That set up must have a tremendous recoil. He said it discharged accidentally.

Several manufacturers offer LEGAL, stock versions like this for home defense. From the Mossberg site the "Cruiser", 18.5 inch barrel -
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-500-6-shot-8-shot-500-cruiser/50440?u_barrel=18.5%22+@18.5~0&nodeRef=2579,2573,2 576&redirect=1&filterNodes=2576,2579

[softailrider]

Picking it up prepare to use, aim, finger on the trigger one can argue I imagine. After 'racking', pumping to enter a round in the chamber.

You don't aim a shotgun, you point it.

[Zacha341]

True. The pellet spray goes forth requiring little aim. Unless using slugs.

[Wesley Mouch]

When I initially read of the incident it said that she was laying dead on the front porch. It said that the police determined that there were no signs of forced entry. It said nothing of her walking circles around the house banging on doors. It said nothing of footprints in the flowerbeds by the window. The hired ME said that the cuts on her hand were from banging, trying to get in the house. Yet there were no broken windows, no busted out screens, no damage to the door. When the guy opened the door and saw a 19 year old girl, was he still terrified of what she was going to do to him?

This whole version of the story is surfacing only after 4 months of preparing with a defense attorney. Why anyone believes that it is anything but a fabrication of the truth, created to try to save this guys' sorry ass is beyond me.

Funny to me how so many people want to see this stupid guy guilty.... yet the same people have no interest in seeing the deal girl guilty.
What's the difference between those who see him guilty vs. her? People who don't judge people as individuals, but rather as an idea. This white guy represents stupid white racist guys to some. I've no idea if he is... and nobody else does either. But people are willing to toss 'innocent until proven guilty' out the window.

A good test is to reverse the races of the players here. If this were a white redneck pounding on the door of a young black girl in Detroit... would you call for conviction. Or would you give her the benefit of the doubt?

[canuck]

Funny to me how so many people want to see this stupid guy guilty.... yet the same people have no interest in seeing the deal girl guilty.
What's the difference between those who see him guilty vs. her? People who don't judge people as individuals, but rather as an idea. This white guy represents stupid white racist guys to some. I've no idea if he is... and nobody else does either. But people are willing to toss 'innocent until proven guilty' out the window.

A good test is to reverse the races of the players here. If this were a white redneck pounding on the door of a young black girl in Detroit... would you call for conviction. Or would you give her the benefit of the doubt?

Do the test yourself and tell us what you come up with. I am intrigued.
In fact tell us how reversing anything can help us determine how to judge a hypothesis while preserving the presumption of innocence. Very little sense in that, I think.

The point is Wesley that we are all judging according to the information we gathered and.yes, we all have a bias and maybe even an agenda. The only way to avoid judging by hypothesis is to not discuss this topic at all.

[7miledog]

None of these issues seem germane to the central question here: is a person banging on someone's door "immediately life threatening" enough to permit someone to shoot and kill that person?

Actually, the germane question is whether someone banging on your front door, back door, and windows at 4:30 am is enough to cause you to reasonably believe that you are in danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury. I could argue either way on this, especially if the screen was, in fact, pounded in [[thereby, vastly increasing the likelihood that someone is attempting to enter your home by force). I'm sorry, if it sounds like someone is breaking in my home at 4:30 in the morning, I am going to treat them as if they are breaking in my home. None of us were there. Let the jury decide. It is a travesty all the way around, no matter the outcome of this trial.

[Honky Tonk]

When I initially read of the incident it said that she was laying dead on the front porch. It said that the police determined that there were no signs of forced entry. It said nothing of her walking circles around the house banging on doors. It said nothing of footprints in the flowerbeds by the window. The hired ME said that the cuts on her hand were from banging, trying to get in the house. Yet there were no broken windows, no busted out screens, no damage to the door. When the guy opened the door and saw a 19 year old girl, was he still terrified of what she was going to do to him?

This whole version of the story is surfacing only after 4 months of preparing with a defense attorney. Why anyone believes that it is anything but a fabrication of the truth, created to try to save this guys' sorry ass is beyond me.

And you're sure that's due to the fact people are posting to "help his sorry ass out" and not the half-assed, me first, reporting that usually accompanies "breaking news"?

[7miledog]

Johnnny5/ Who says the guy was totally sober himself though on that fateful night?

I'm sorry, but you're just making shit up here. What proof, or even intimation, has been stated that he was not sober? And, frankly, he could have been stoned out of his mind for all I care. He was at home, minding his own business, when a "super" drunk and high individual started banging on his all of his doors and windows at 4:30 in the morning. What is undisputed, she had been drunk driving. Had she simply drove into a pole and killed herself because she was drunk, no one would give a f*ck. But because she was shot while drunk, she's an innocent victim? I don't buy it. She ended up dead because she was too drunk. Different means, same result, same cause. Sad ending, but I actually don't think this guy should go to prison.

[Hermod]

Picking it up prepare to use, aim, finger on the trigger one can argue I imagine. After 'racking', pumping to enter a round in the chamber.

Normally, the term "draw" means taking a gun out of a holster [[e.g. he drew his pistol) or a sword out of a scabbard [[e.g. Officers, Ready, Draw Sabers!).