Newest Detroit Ruins

[kraig]

What do you think are the new Detroit Ruins? More importantly, what can be done to save them?

I'm going with the International Welcome Center on Bagley. That was a waste of $17,000,000.00.

[tetsua]

I honestly never saw the purpose of the welcome center, at this point in time anyway.

[Eric_c]

Cass Tech has my vote.

[ndavies]

The welcome center is the victim of a construction company gone bad. This company has delayed and destroyed a number of projects downtown. The company came into town with a very good reputation only to fall completely apart. They are being sued by numerous entities including the group building the welcome center.

[kraig]

All of the articles I've read indicated that it was a result of extremely bad management. Which I can believe. One of the people involved with the project was at the Coast Guard public hearing speaking out against the Bridge. That's backwards thinking. If your business depends on Bridge Traffic, you want a better bridge. No wonder they folded quick.

[brainwizzard]

I would have to say the latest victims to become the "newest detroit ruins" and the surprising number of schools that have been shutting down [[not just cass tech since that really didnt shut down). just the other day while taking the dogs for a walk we came across what im guessing was an elementary school with brand new playground equipment that was all closed up and full of trash and some really crappy tags, it looked like the place has been abandonded for years, but judging by the playground it couldnt have been all that long.

[kraig]

Gold Star for Brainwizard. There was about 1.5 Billion spent on the Schools and now more than half of them have been closed. That's a crying shame.

[Gsgeorge]

The Executive Plaza building along Sixth & The Lodge has to be one of the newest [[in terms of year of construction) abandoned skyscrapers in North America. The tower was completed in 1972.

[Neilr]

Cass Tech has my vote.

I second Eric_c. The old Cass Tech has been a grand and proud building where many of our most outstanding residents were educated. Now, due to mismanagement and neglect, it has become a hulking, shameful scar on the city's educational heritage.

[detroitbred]

Who was / is the construction company on the welcome center?

[DetroitPlanner]

Its not the Welcome Center Component that suffers from bad mgt but the Mercado. Right now the market there stinks due to waiting for the bridge project to be completed. Have patience. Now the old police station in the next block, thats got my vote.

[downandouterdrive]

The new Bookies.

[kraig]

Come on DetroitPlanner. I know I shouldn't assume, but I'm still going to assume that given your name you know something about planning and what's been going on over there. Good luck finding anyone that will tell you it wasn't bad management. In fact, the builders had to sue just to get paid and Wayne County had to audit the management.

[Lorax]

Excuse me, but why is the old Cass Tech allowed to be vandalized, broken into, set on fire? I really don't get it. Is there no security on the premises? It's not like it's miles away from the current Cass Tech. It's right next door!

This is really unique to Detroit. There is so little interest in the built environment. I would fire the security service they use since they're apparently no good.

The new ruins are any structure, public or private where the owner whether absent or not, is bold enough to leave for a couple of hours without swat team security on site 24-7.

I have lived in Miami for years now, and even in the worst neighborhoods here, it's understood that if you're caught breaking into someone else's property, expect to be shot. And that goes for really good neigborhoods as well.

We find that posting a human skull on a stick in the front yard keeps most people from messing with you.

[ndavies]

It would cost at least $150,000 a year to provide 24/7 security to the old Cass tech building. And that would be for only 1 person on site at a time. With the disaster that is the detroit public school system there isn't any money to pay for it. And even if there was extra money, That money should go to the education of children, not babysitting an obsolete building.

[Lorax]

I'm sure in today's economy you could provide security for less than 150k! Where do I sign up? Obsolete or not, it's your thinking that's obsolete.

How about cinder blocking up the first three floors of windows? Or better yet, how about spending the money on marketing the building for other uses?

You say the 150k would be better spent educating people, I couldn't agree more. How about a few classes on respecting the built environment and what the history of that building means to the generations of Detroiters and how it can invenitvely be reused going forward.

Sounds like you'd be first in line to plunger-box the Hudson's building, or perhaps you could ride shotgun on the bulldozer with Anita Baker next time she's got a historic mansion in her cross-hairs?

[ndavies]

You do realize it would take at least 5 people to cover a 24/7 assignment.

There are 8760 hours in a year. A full time employeee works a little over 2000 hours a year. Paying someone $10 an hour adds up to $87,600 in salary alone. Even without shift overlap and supervision. On top of that you have to add all the billing, payroll and other processing costs of employing 5 people and you'd be lucky to get off with a $150000 tab for that. Thats with the 5 employees earning less than 25K a year.

Yes i would happily plunger that obsolete eyesore.

[Lorax]

Yeah, I got it. No one thinks 150k involves one person. However, it still begs the question- what's your gripe with the built environment?

You probably think the new Cass Tech is a superior building, built to last the ages, and is preferable to a renovated original Cass Tech building?

You sound like the type who would pull down the Empire State Building for a Taco Bell.

Maybe they should have replaced Orchestra Hall with the McDonald's that was planned for that site back in 1971?

I guess since it would have employed more people- and apparently that's the litmus test you require in whether or not a building deserves to stand or not.

Let me guess, you probably think the Lafayette Building deserves demolition as well?

[Russix]

How much does it cost to protect the New Cass Tech? If it's impossible to get security guards to keep an eye on 2 adjacent buildings, then maybe something besides plywood to secure a building? $300 million deficit and 53 school closings really adds to the arguments that money should have never been wasted on building a new school in city where everything except new schools are in demand.

[ndavies]

I have no gripes with the built environment. My gripe is with the economics of the built environment. There has to be demand for a building to keep it maintained. If there was a paying use for the building that would be great. Unfortunately we have a huge surplus of buildings that can't support themselves. The lack of demand causes other useful building to be way under priced. This causes them to fall into a state of disrepair due to the lack of funds for maintenance.

The new cass tech is a far superior building for educating students. So yes I think it's a far superior building. I also think it's a wonderful piece of modern architecture.

Well if you have the cash to save the Lafayette go ahead and save it. otherwise get the hell out of the way.

[ndavies]

There's a huge difference in paying for security for a building that supports your organizations core mission [[educating students) and a building that adds nothing but feel good crap for a bunch of sideline grandstanders. The minute something happened in the new buildng there would be huge TV stories asking why the guards were in the old building and the new building wasn't protected.

School building funds and the operating expenses come out of two different pockets. The $350 million deficit is the operating budget not the building budget. The building of new schools was voted on by the citizens of Detroit long before the school board squandered the last 2 years operating budget.

[Lorax]

Russix has the right idea- it's more about priorities than the ability to furnish a few security guards or a stack of cinder blocks to secure a building.

Ndavies apparently would wipe the landscape clean of buildings leaving behind a giant void with a few pieces of modern architectural dreck dotting the landscape. Reminds me of architectural fascism.

If the DPS can waste millions on buildings that were eventually abandoned, projects with graft-ridden cost overruns and misplaced fiscal policies involving corruption of the highest order, then anyone wanting to have superior school architecture preserved has more than a soapbox to stand on, and in fact has a right to demand accountability and a redirecting of finances toward the preservation of the built environment.

Let's see what the new Cass Tech looks like in a couple of years of deferred maintenance and we'll see if it survives 80 plus years like the original building has.

[Lorax]

I guess the answer was to incorporate the old structure into the new one, but then again, the DPS was never long on brains.

Or perhaps they could have budgeted a smaller new structure and built in the cost of demolishing the older one.

Oh, that's right, then they wouldn't have the giant eyesore next door proudly displaying the utter stupidity of the DPS for all the world to see.

No argument you can make will change the fact that there is NO EXCUSE for allowing such a fine structure that was occupied and in working order to fall into such a state while millions are being spent next door with no regard to the history of the school, or what the original structure represents.

[Ray1936]

Having driven back and forth past the Ford Wixom plant the last four days, I submit that it will be the Packard plant of the mid 2000's.

What a waste.

[ndavies]

No, I would only wipe the landscape clean of building that have no further use. If someone values a building enough to pay the maintenance on it, then it should be saved. Unfortunately Old Cass tech is not one of those buildings.

My family owns a 600+ year old farm in Wales. It is still performing its original function as a horse farm. It is one of the oldest residential privately owned buildings in Great Britain. The facilities are kept alive by an ongoing business.

I own a 90 year old home on the banks of Lake Erie. I've spent a small fortune renovating it. The home and location more than make up for the cost of renovation.

In functioning cities buildings get replaced on an ongoing basis. Detroit is not a functioning city. It does not have enough demand to keep the buildings it has in good shape. If there is no demand, these building need to go. You cannot save them without an inherent ongoing demand for them.

One of the ongoing issues is increasing efficiencies brought about by new building methods and materials. They make saving old buildings less cost competitive to tearing them down and starting from scratc

I also didn't know the Empire State building was ever abandonded. It's not a valid comparison to a building that will be empty for a very long time. With the current demand in Manhattan, they wouldn't tolerate a building being abandoned. The market would force either renovation or replacement in very short order. There would be money there to get the job done quickly. The huge tax burden would not allow an owner to sit on his hands for very long. The city would have huge numbers of profitable bids for the land and/or building, if it reverted due to tax foreclosure.