Ilitch announces Huge plans for Red Wings Arena Project - Renderings Released

**Detroit500** · July-20-14, 09:54 AM

Exciting news. A bold plan. I'm very hopeful and agree he Palace is in for big trouble.

**emu steve** · July-20-14, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit500

Exciting news. A bold plan. I'm very hopeful and agree he Palace is in for big trouble.

L. Brooks Patterson is pissing in his pants this morning seeing the renderings.

BTW, I'm trying to discern what will be built first and which is more speculative [[depending on 'market conditions').

As was mentioned both the Freep and Bill Shea both reported on the housing near Comerica Park.

Take that, the beautiful arena, the buildings along the perimeter of the arena [[bounded by Fisher/Woodward/Cass/Charlotte) and already my cup is more than half full.) such as some housing, retail, etc.

I believe all of this is 'baked into' the Ilitches plans for 2017. Other projects are more iffy, I'd think, BUT let's get this done and see how the areas near Cass Park, Brush Park, etc. develop.

I wonder if all of this isn't a shot in the arm for housing on the other side of Woodward????

**stinkytofu** · July-20-14, 10:18 AM

If this all comes to be then Brush Park undoubtedly will see a big influx in investment as well. Way too many empty lots in there.

**313WX** · July-20-14, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

As of TODAY, July 20, 2014 everything we thought or posted in the past isn't very relevant and today a completely different vision, dream for downtown and Midtown and much of it is to be built concurrently by 2017.

Light clearing of the site in fall 2014; heavy duty work begins in spring 2015.

[[We have a thread with almost 500 posts but are they still relevant? I'd say not. This vision seems to have exceed my wishes by many fold).

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...SS06/307200110

EDIT: Just read Bill's article in Crains. The articles are complimentary, each has unique information.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...WS03/140719845

I'm starting a new thread, if folks want to utilize it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Moderator Note: As this represents a milestone in this project, continued discussion will proceed in this new thread. Previous discussion begun in June 2013 may be read the now closed-to-posting thread:
Plans Unveiled For $650M Red Wings Arena, Entertainment District In Detroit

Images above and below from Olympia Development Press Release:

I'm going to keep my excitement in check, because those are JUST renderings.

But WOW if that were to happen. That would be the exact boost the city needs to kickstart a true comeback.

**MSUguy** · July-20-14, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I'm not sure I agree, Dan.

Unlike most urban renewal or development, too many cooks spoil the stew.

Here I believe Ilitch controls most of what we are talking [[with obvious exceptions like the Fisher bridge) and has his money [[and other monies) lined up.

I think he'll pull it off, minus some kind of bad economic downturn.

Because that what it say in the freep article. Concretely we're for sure getting is the arena and the initial housing units which is great. But with the pretty "neighborhood" renderings overwhelmingly what that actually look will like is going to depend on what other developers decide to build.

"The Ilitches plan to build the first few hundred residential units, some in front of Comerica Park along Woodward Avenue, and others in a building lining the south frontage of the new arena. They expect other private developers to invest in the district and build hundreds, perhaps thousands, more residential units over time"

**401don** · July-20-14, 11:57 AM

The most important news for Wings fans is the change from 18 to 20 thousand seats. That will help keep prices down.

**Bham1982** · July-20-14, 12:04 PM

Absurd renderings, obviously not grounded in any reality, and not remotely reflective of what will actually be built.

You'll get an arena and parking lots. There is no market impetus for any of the other stuff. Count yourself lucky if the arena isn't hideous.

The Illitches have never built a residential unit, there is no market for new construction residential units, and they couldn't even get a loan. They would have to pay out-of-pocket, or have the taxpayers pay. They wouldn't do Option A and I don't even think our "leaders" are stupid enough to agree to Option B after wasting hundreds of millions just building a third arena for the region.

**Jason** · July-20-14, 12:07 PM

The sunken arena [[so that the concourses are at street level), the surrounding buildings, atrium, and double sided retail are great.

From what I can tell most or all of the red wings themeing on the arena itself is LED lighting, which to me seems like it could also be a Pistons arena if it needed to be...

The announcement was bigger than I was expecting but it just makes me think that it's the same old same old from illitch. The "4 minimum" buildings might be the ones attached to the arena, or maybe the ones attached to the parking garages. Most of the renderings look like flavor images rather than visualizations of designs by architects. But the section of the arena itself is very specific so I think that is the real deal.

**mwilbert** · July-20-14, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Absurd renderings, obviously not grounded in any reality, and not remotely reflective of what will actually be built.

You'll get an arena and parking lots. There is no market impetus for any of the other stuff. Count yourself lucky if the arena isn't hideous.

The Illitches have never built a residential unit, there is no market for new construction residential units, and they couldn't even get a loan. They would have to pay out-of-pocket, or have the taxpayers pay. They wouldn't do Option A and I don't even think our "leaders" are stupid enough to agree to Option B after wasting hundreds of millions just building a third arena for the region.

This seems wrong to me. One would expect the arena itself to generate some ancillary demand, and there is already demand for residential [[I have no idea why you think there is no demand for "new construction residential units", as opposed to renovated residential units for which there is clearly demand), so I don't see why that wouldn't happen. Just knowing what is going on with the arena should make that a lot more feasible. Whether you get a lot of the other projected stuff is certainly open to question.

And it is impossible ever to rule out hideousness.

**Novine** · July-20-14, 12:16 PM

I'm still waiting for the soccer stadium proposal that Emu Steve was pimping last year to materialize.

**rb336** · July-20-14, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

As I mentioned earlier, it is as if they took every suggestion or complaint that everyone had made and managed to incorporate them into a master design.

I can tell you that at least one person at Olympia Development monitors this site and others

**Vic01** · July-20-14, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Absurd renderings, obviously not grounded in any reality, and not remotely reflective of what will actually be built.

You'll get an arena and parking lots. There is no market impetus for any of the other stuff. Count yourself lucky if the arena isn't hideous.

The Illitches have never built a residential unit, there is no market for new construction residential units, and they couldn't even get a loan. They would have to pay out-of-pocket, or have the taxpayers pay. They wouldn't do Option A and I don't even think our "leaders" are stupid enough to agree to Option B after wasting hundreds of millions just building a third arena for the region.

I think that we've set a new record here... 31 posts before a "negative" post popped up, I'll remain hopeful... time will tell

**Lombaowski** · July-20-14, 12:59 PM

Great stuff

**emu steve** · July-20-14, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Vic01

I think that we've set a new record here... 31 posts before a "negative" post popped up, I'll remain hopeful... time will tell

Is Bham82 related to L. Brooks Patterson? Lol.

**emu steve** · July-20-14, 01:14 PM

Here is a story on a possible hotel at Henry and Woodward....

http://www.freep.com/article/20140720/NEWS01/307200121/

**313WX** · July-20-14, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Is Bham82 related to L. Brooks Patterson? Lol.

Probably not L. Brooks Patterson per se, but perhaps they're paid by Oakland County or LBP to troll this forum...

I haven't see one positive post about Detroit [[or one negative post about Oakland County) from him out of his 2,654 posts.

**poobert** · July-20-14, 01:38 PM

I'd rather this impending post not be considered negative, but, rather, realistic...

I'm thinking this is unprecedented because it is, perhaps, not a great idea in the first place. As Bham correctly points out, these are renderings. I mean, just draw some spaceships in there with laser beams that go "pew-pew" while you're at it.

What he's more typically wrong about, however, is the housing demand. You've got an area that is 95%-99% occupied, with rising rents and waiting list for renters. There is indeed pent-up demand. That's the good news. People are probably going to live in what is built.

However, I can say as a self-proclaimed yuppie urban-inhabitant, the last thing I'd likely want to live in is some unholy spawn of Illitch.

This isn't an emotional reaction. I just don't see any great understanding of urban living emanating from Olympia. People with $$$ to live downtown want to live in the Kales, not what I'm fully expecting to look like Clinton Township condos. You're definitely within your rights to deride that, but it's hard to argue [[because then they could just keep living in Clinton Township).

This is the guy who built Comerica Park, which is more reminiscent of a suburban shopping mall than, say, Wrigley Field. It also has acres of parking out front. I just doubt his urban cred.

The juvenile writing of John Gallagher is also pretty annoying. How many times did they say "European" streets? So, what the hell does that even mean? Cobblestones? Monuments-aux-morts? Vespas? Seeing as I regularly see this guy having lunch with George Jackson at the Yacht Club, I'm not surprised.

**subsidized** · July-20-14, 02:44 PM

I am curious as to how much influence Christopher Illitch has over this project. I mean, he is the President and CEO of Illitch Holdings. Perhaps his idea of an urban arena space is vastly different than that of his father. I will reserve my judgment and hope for the best.

**Cliffy** · July-20-14, 02:56 PM

Illitch is kind of cheap when it comes to building things. I just don't see Illitch taking money out of his own pocket and building residential etc... Unless he has some other investors on board. Either way, it is going to be interesting. They really need to do something with the area behind the Fox though. Talk about a wasteland.

**Mackinaw** · July-20-14, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Here is a story on a possible hotel at Henry and Woodward....

http://www.freep.com/article/20140720/NEWS01/307200121/

Yo, look alive, that is actually mainly a story about the two hotels on Park Avenue. But thanks for posting, as it contains at least some further acknowledgement of the structures by Chris.

WTF does he mean when he says, 'well, you know, these 13 story buildings are way out of scale.' Why on earth would that doom them!? Is this code for: they're too big to renovate, it will cost us too much? Because having a couple of "tall" [[and these aren't even tall, this in an f'ing city) buildings in the mix would only add a pleasing, urban element to the district. They could be hotels or residential that overlook across the district as a whole and gave onto the entirety of downtown, commanding higher rent than the townhouse looking stuff proposed elsewhere. You want an "urban entertainment district," bro?-- then development these "tall" buildings ASAP. What a clownish quote.

**401don** · July-20-14, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Yo, look alive, that is actually mainly a story about the two hotels on Park Avenue. But thanks for posting, as it contains at least some further acknowledgement of the structures by Chris.

WTF does he mean when he says, 'well, you know, these 13 story buildings are way out of scale.' Why on earth would that doom them!? Is this code for: they're too big to renovate, it will cost us too much? Because having a couple of "tall" [[and these aren't even tall, this in an f'ing city) buildings in the mix would only add a pleasing, urban element to the district. They could be hotels or residential that overlook across the district as a whole and gave onto the entirety of downtown, commanding higher rent than the townhouse looking stuff proposed elsewhere. You want an "urban entertainment district," bro?-- then development these "tall" buildings ASAP. What a clownish quote.

It is pretty ridiculous to say the buildings are out of scale when they wouldn't even be called high-rise in any other city. Also, when are we going to see the actual arena design? It's supposed to break ground in September. Are they still making changes?

**dtowncitylover** · July-20-14, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

This isn't an emotional reaction. I just don't see any great understanding of urban living emanating from Olympia. People with $$$ to live downtown want to live in the Kales, not what I'm fully expecting to look like Clinton Township condos. You're definitely within your rights to deride that, but it's hard to argue [[because then they could just keep living in Clinton Township).

Overall, I understand what you are saying but I beg to differ. If people wanted to live in Clinton Twp, they will. But if you want to live downtown and all the "old" buildings are full, then you're gonna jump at the next best thing to live in an urban environment. We can see this happening in Toronto, we can even see this happening in places like Royal Oak or Birmingham. The older houses are being torn down for houses that look like they belong in Rochester Hills or Washington Twp. Why? Because it seems, new families want the new construction in an "urban" environment.

And it appears these are going to be high rises opposed to the 2-3 story buildings you see in the exburbs. These could be considered "classier" and "urban" because they are in the city.

**313WX** · July-20-14, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by subsidized

I am curious as to how much influence Christopher Illitch has over this project. I mean, he is the President and CEO of Illitch Holdings. Perhaps his idea of an urban arena space is vastly different than that of his father. I will reserve my judgment and hope for the best.

One thing to keep in mind [[and probably will require an adjustment in perspective) is the folks who are involved in these projects are not really familiar with truly urban environment, given they were born and raised in suburban Detroit when their parents and grandparents didn't allow them to go into the city.

These renderings, if nothing else, represent the fact that they probably don't know any better.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-20-14, 03:44 PM

There must be people who want to live in updated "classic" buildings downtown as well as people who want to live in new construction downtown and in midtown. After all, buildings as different as the Broderick and Woodward Gardens filled up pretty fast. Barring some economic downturn, I would think any housing built as part of this proposal would be snapped up pretty quickly, especially if folks have faith in having most of this proposal come to pass.

I think that for the near future more housing will actually create more demand, as additional retail and other amenities will follow an influx of residents.

**Vic01** · July-20-14, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Illitch is kind of cheap when it comes to building things. I just don't see Illitch taking money out of his own pocket and building residential etc... Unless he has some other investors on board. Either way, it is going to be interesting. They really need to do something with the area behind the Fox though. Talk about a wasteland.

Does this cover it...

Columbia Park
■ Geography: Bounded by Grand River, Bagley and Park avenues, I-75, the area currently is home to Bookies Bar and Grille, Centaur, the Town Pump Tavern and parking lots.
■ The vision: A new park planned near the corner of Columbia Street and Cass Avenue is supposed to exemplify the contemporary, open feel of this neighborhood as a gathering place. Ilitch predicted demand for residential housing here will boom in the next five years or so.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014072...arena-district

“We’re announcing to the community the formation of five new neighborhoods in this district,” Ilitch told the Free Press on Thursday. “We’re going to step forward and help guide the launch and formation of these neighborhoods so they do take on a distinct character and have the characteristics that people are going to want to live in.”

Ilitch said the organization will spend “tens of millions” on public infrastructure — paving, landscaping, new parks and streetlights — throughout the new neighborhoods in addition to the commitment for $200 million in private investment for mixed-use developments around the arena.