Is the metro detroit eastside starting to deteriorate?

[boater4life]

I know it hasn't always been classified as the highest class areas, but has anyone else noticed that is seems like areas around clinton twp, st. clair shores, mt. clemens, even some parts of macomb twp, and really interesting is some areas of grosse pointe are starting to go down hill? You see more of people not taking care of their houses, yards, etc. and it seems like the shift is moving more north like I said even some areas up and around macomb, but what I really was surprised about was Grosse Pointe.

[Bobl]

No. I see much the same, all around. The transfer of wealth from the working middle class has been well documented, and easily observed, across most areas.
How do you define "highest class areas"?

[Danny]

Is the metro Detroit East Side starting to deteriorate?

It's starts with Warren and Eastpointe.

[313WX]

I know it hasn't always been classified as the highest class areas, but has anyone else noticed that is seems like areas around clinton twp, st. clair shores, mt. clemens, even some parts of macomb twp, and really interesting is some areas of grosse pointe are starting to go down hill? You see more of people not taking care of their houses, yards, etc. and it seems like the shift is moving more north like I said even some areas up and around macomb, but what I really was surprised about was Grosse Pointe.

Part of it is the economy.

Many of those high-paying jobs that were previously available in those factories throughout Warren have been offshored, completely automated, or haven't returned since the big auto companies went bankrupt. That in effect led to a lot of business closures as the workers were put out of work. Macomb County has always been blue collar, unlike Oakland County, so those factory job losses hit it much harder.

Also, a lot of the middle class folks that previously lived in the Southern Macomb County communities fled northward to the newly built subdivision along the M-59 corridor, and replacing them are Section 8 renters from Detroit.

[Bham1982]

Yes, Southern Macomb looks worse, especially south of Metro Parkway.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The cost of living in Michigan is getting increasingly higher. Taxes, Gas prices, insurance are all taking their toll on the lower and upper middle class.

[Wesley Mouch]

I see deterioration across the US. Small towns and large. Hits the weaker neighborhoods first. So sure, the Warren/Eastpointe area is looking a little tattered.

Don't see this as part of any other trend. Its tough times. Weaker places suffer.

[Goose]

is this code for "do you see black people moving in"? seems suspiciously worded.....

[Dan Wesson]

Ashes to ashes,
Dust to dust.

It's the natural order of things. It takes energy and resources to just maintain. Oxidization sets in. Rust never sleeps.

Devolution...

[animatedmartian]

is this code for "do you see black people moving in"? seems suspiciously worded.....

Suspiciously worded and also interesting when you consider Warren/Eastpointe/Roseville, etc. have all been gaining population according to latest estimates. Declining areas yet growing population? Perhaps some sort of demographic shift could be the explanation.

[Dan Wesson]

is this code for "do you see black people moving in"? seems suspiciously worded.....

Suspicious minds...

synonyms:doubtful, unsure, dubious, wary, chary, skeptical, distrustful, mistrustful, disbelieving, cynical More

World view?

[Danny]

Part of it is the economy.


Also, a lot of the middle class folks that previously lived in the Southern Macomb County communities fled northward to the newly built subdivision along the M-59 corridor, and replacing them are Section 8 renters from Detroit.

That's right. it explains those Levittownesque sprawl-burgs from Chesterfield TWP. to Macomb TWP. During the past 20 years white folks really want to flight to 20 Mile rd. [[the new 8 Mile Rd.) and beyond. By the year 2030 suburban sprawl in Macomb County will reach the new 40 Mile rd.

In the meantime inner ring suburbs in Macomb County from St. Clair Shores to Warren will be filled by poor ghetto-folks who are still stuck on welfare checks and food stamps from E. 8 Mile Rd to 14 Mile Rd. depending the housing stock and shape. I would see more middle income black folks occupying Warren Woods, St Clair Shores, Fraser and some parts Clinton TWP. depending the housing stock.

In the meantime more white folks had return to Detroit starting with [[Gilberttown) and farther up to build more homes in the lower east and west sides with super condos and mega lofts like its out of from the TV sit-com The Jetsons.

[Honky Tonk]

When the housing market hit rock bottom, and prices were @ they're lowest, lower/middle-class income people, who had a few bucks saved up, took advantage of the situation and bought homes outside of Detroit. When Marathon Oil bought out the lower/middle-class income people's homes, people took advantage of the situation and bought homes outside of Detroit. It's one thing to scrape together enough money, and make the initial purchase, it's another to do consistent upkeep. That, coupled with the job market in the Metro-Detroit area concurrently hitting an all time low, and the upper/middle-class job-seeking exodus @ the same time, produced the results you see.

[313WX]

The cost of living in Michigan is getting increasingly higher. Taxes, Gas prices, insurance are all taking their toll on the lower and upper middle class.

At the same time, wages are at the lowest level they've ever been.

If you're a college student or graduate, you have to ask yourself why should you stay here working $8-$12/hr for a good 5-10 years until the Good Ol' Boys managers above you decide to either retire or promote you?

You'll basically be struggling to survive every single day while not being able to afford the state's supposed "luxuries" [[meaning buying a home in the suburbs and owning a cottage up north, for example)?

[ghettopalmetto]

I know it hasn't always been classified as the highest class areas, but has anyone else noticed that is seems like areas around clinton twp, st. clair shores, mt. clemens, even some parts of macomb twp, and really interesting is some areas of grosse pointe are starting to go down hill? You see more of people not taking care of their houses, yards, etc. and it seems like the shift is moving more north like I said even some areas up and around macomb, but what I really was surprised about was Grosse Pointe.

What? Doesn't The Blight know that it's supposed to stop at 8 Mile Road?

We can't have this. Better pack up and buy a Pulte home in St. Clair County. Then we can all point fingers at the remaining Macombers for letting their county go to hell in a handbasket.

[Mackinaw]

Boater, ghettopalmetto has correctly pinned the problem. There is not a high level of commitment, nor should there be really. The homes in the 8 to 16 mile swath are getting older and most of them were never really built to last-- just basic 1950s-70s boxes in many cases, with a few exceptions. And only a few of the towns have decent main streets or even marginal amenities. They are just bedroom towns. Southern Oakland is much the same, but there seems to be a bit more stability thanks to slightly better economics. These places, too, will deteriorate. It's just the throwaway economy at work that you're observing, that's all.

The really 'permanent places' that have well built homes, good main street amenities, some level of distinctiveness, and good institutions, will last. I think of Royal Oak, Birmingham, Grosse Pointe, and parts of Dearborn. Having left GP where I grew up and now returning occasionally, I do not see deterioration except in its roads, which is not very important [[and they're getting fixed, anyway). A spattering of homes that were foreclosed on [[totally logical since they were pricey pre-2007 when bad mortgages were purchased...and much of GP is middle class) have all been put back into new hands. The very northwest fringes of the new Grosse Pointes, which are in fact in Macomb county and sort of look like it too, have seen a decrease in value, but I'd surmise it's for some of the same reasons as the rest of southern Macomb. I don't agree with your observation whatsoever regarding the rest of the Pointes, particularly Park, proper, Farms, and Shores, and I surmise their continued success is that most all the preconditions for success that I listed above exist. Hell, they'll even still pick up your trash from your backyard.... that's not a deteriorating place.

[boater4life]

is this code for "do you see black people moving in"? seems suspiciously worded.....

That's not what I was referring to. Have you ever been on Jefferson and Crocker? That's between 15 and 16 mile, lots of white folks, and lots of run down homes, yards full of trash, lawns not taken care of, etc. This is the same for Roseville, and parts of Clinton twp and Mt. Clemens is, well, Mt. Clemens.

[Bham1982]

is this code for "do you see black people moving in"? seems suspiciously worded.....

No, not "black people moving in", per se, but the poor underclass from the East Side of Detroit, which happens to be a demographic probably 95%+ black.

There are similarly huge increases in the black population in places like Novi, Walled Lake, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, etc., yet I doubt too many people would argue these places are in decline, because the black population is mostly professionals and not from the urban underclass.

And a lot of the rundown communities in South Macomb are mostly white, with frankly lots of trashy white folks. Places like Roseville and South Warren have no shortage of white folks with less-than-desirable traits as neighbors.

[Bham1982]

Suspiciously worded and also interesting when you consider Warren/Eastpointe/Roseville, etc. have all been gaining population according to latest estimates. Declining areas yet growing population? Perhaps some sort of demographic shift could be the explanation.

Declining areas usually have a population increase at the onset of decline. Northeast Detroit gained population in recent decades, even as it went down the toilet, and became the most violent part of Detroit.

It's logical if you think about neighborhood change. In a place like Eastpointe old white ethnics are passing on, and their homes are bought by young families from Detroit, so you have one old lady being replaced by a family of four or something of that nature. And if there are any teenage boys or young men in that family of four, there's a higher chance there will be un-neighborly behavior compared to the little old lady who used to live there.

Also, the influx of young, poor families will put further stress on the local tax base [[especially schools, social services, emergency services), causing the remaining "revenue positive" homeowners to get the hell out.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

No, not "black people moving in", per se, but the poor underclass from the East Side of Detroit, which happens to be a demographic probably 95%+ black.

There are similarly huge increases in the black population in places like Novi, Walled Lake, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, etc., yet I doubt too many people would argue these places are in decline, because the black population is mostly professionals and not from the urban underclass.

And a lot of the rundown communities in South Macomb are mostly white, with frankly lots of trashy white folks. Places like Roseville and South Warren have no shortage of white folks with less-than-desirable traits as neighbors.

Glad someone else noticed this. There are plenty of poor whites as well, yet this never gets mentioned. It's always the assumption that if you're poor you're black. A huge misconception.

[Hypestyles]

Find a way to merge Wayne and Macomb. Share more resources.

[animatedmartian]

Glad someone else noticed this. There are plenty of poor whites as well, yet this never gets mentioned. It's always the assumption that if you're poor you're black. A huge misconception.

Yes, there's actually many middle class blacks in Southern Macomb but this is just as equally not mentioned.

[Hermod]

Glad someone else noticed this. There are plenty of poor whites as well, yet this never gets mentioned. It's always the assumption that if you're poor you're black. A huge misconception.

Back before Rochester became an upscale, superchic place [[mid 50s), there were a lot of old, small, ill-maintained homes along Auburn Road between Rochester Road and Dequindre and again along John R from Auburn Road to 24 Mile. The demographic was probably 99% white. Quite a few of the students at Rochester High were of a lower economic class.

[Detroitnerd]

I think this goes back to George Galster's thesis that if you just let developers keep overbuilding on the periphery while you have a static population, this is what you're going to see.

Perhaps his thesis is less controversial if we frame it as something happening within Macomb County itself?

[nain rouge]

Lived at 12 & Ryan and 10 & Gratiot for most of my life, so I think I can comment on this. I made a post about this very subject in a recent thread, but it was ignored. Anyway, it's my belief that the new wave of industrial jobs in Metro Detroit generally don't pay enough to support middle class neighborhoods, in terms of properly maintaining homes and infrastructure. Really, the pay scale is more appropriate for trailer parks or Brightmoor-style developments.

You have a unique situation right now where union workers are living in Macomb Township and newer, nonunion workers are in Warren, Eastpointe, Roseville, and etc [[yet some still work side by side in the same factory). And while the people in southern Macomb County are good people that work hard to maintain their neighborhoods, the truth is more than a few just don't have the money. Upticks in crime, a side effect of persistently high unemployment [[8.9% in Warren vs. 6.4% in the US and 7.4% in Michigan as of April, not gonna dig up the up to the second stats), are also damaging neighborhoods.

Look, we've busted a lot of the unions, and in industrial, blue collar counties like Macomb, you can't hide the end result: a lower standard of living. New industrial workers in Macomb cwill work longer hours for less pay [[relative to inflation) over their lifetimes than their parents. Sorry, but it's true. There is a difference between jobs and good jobs, though few pay attention. They just hear jobs, and figure it must be good. Offshoring was the best union buster ever, better than any hired goon.