Canadians Planning to deliver water to Detroiters whose water is shut off

[Lowell]

UPDATE: The water is on the way... Jump to current discussion >>


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Some of our neighbors to the south are leading to an attempt to deliver water to shut off households in the City of Detroit. Full CBC article here >>

"I've seen this in the poorest countries in the world," Barlow [Council of Canadians] said. "This is what we call failed states, but to see this in North America, it's a disgrace." ...

The Council of Canadians say many observers believe shutting off water is an attempt to appeal to potential private investors.

"We're sitting on the Great Lakes, supplying a fifth of the world’s surface water. It’s appalling," Barlow said.

Barlow will be part of a convoy bringing what she called "good Canadian, public, clean water" across the river to Detroit on July 24.

"Our water is their water," Barlow said.

She is also preparing an appeal to the White House.

"We’re going right to the top," Barlow said.

She has one question for President Barack Obama.

"There are potentially 500,000 people who are going to spend a good part of the summer, in the heat, in the summer, without water. Is that OK with you?" she said.

A serious effort, an attempt to shame, good-hearted but unrealistic? What do you think?

The article also goes on to cite and effort by a 'Detroit Water Brigade'. Anybody familiar with them?

Meanwhile, the Detroit Water Brigade is a group of volunteers bringing water to those who need it.

They are stockpiling bottled water and affordable rainwater collection systems in order to provide potable water, and water for sanitary use.

A distribution centre has been established, where people can come and get water to take home. Home deliveries are also being made.

[401don]

When you buy water you're not paying for the water. Just like bottled water, you're basically paying for the filtration, delivery system, etc. Just how much is the average Detroit water bill?

[Scottathew]

When you make paying optional, some folks will stop. There are plenty of charities, churches, and other groups that would be willing to give water to those in need.

What's going on here is that some people figured out that Detroit *was* so incompetent that you could stop paying your bill and have no consequences. Now that Detroit *is* becoming competent, consequences have been restored.

People who purposely choose other things over water when there were no consequences now have huge bills.

Being honest, hard working, and responsible has its perks, including running, filtered water delivered to your house through miles of pipes.

[Lowell]

When you buy water you're not paying for the water. Just like bottled water, you're basically paying for the filtration, delivery system, etc. Just how much is the average Detroit water bill?

Water is only 1/3 - 1/4 of typical metro Detroit bills, the rest is sewage. Trouble is [to bill collectors at least] sewage can't easily be turned off and, if it could, would create public health and safety issues.

[Dan Wesson]

Refering to the Canadian posturing...

Yep it's all show for the less educated masses, great theatrics.

Bring all the bottled water you want as long as you also bring in all the porta johns, grey and black water tanks then return home with them full and dispose of in a environmentally correct manner.

[Zacha341]

How will this water 'brigade' assist those with water shut-offs beyond drinking and a toilet flush by pouring some down the loo? It's warm now, but in less than 90 days winter will be on the way back and remaining water standing in pipes will burst, furnaces with boilers [[for radiators and other such water feeds required) will not be working.

We'll have another wave of destroyed, and abandoned property in the city. A bottle or bucket of free water does not address this.

[Dan Wesson]

How will this water 'brigade' assist those with water shut-offs beyond drinking and a toilet flush by pouring some down the loo? It's warm now, but in less than 90 days winter will be on the way back and remaining water standing in pipes will burst, furnaces with boilers [[for radiators and other such water feeds required) will not be working.

We'll have another wave of destroyed, an abandoned property in the city. A bottle or bucket of free water does not address this.

You know it would be nice if all things needed would come together but when procrastination on everybody's part makes it impossible, that's when letting the crap hit the fan is a viable alternative.

[Jimaz]

...The article also goes on to cite an effort by a 'Detroit Water Brigade'. Anybody familiar with them?...

Not until now: Detroit Water Brigade

Dudley Do-Right to the rescue!

Seriously though, this is a supremely magnanimous gesture by our northerly neighbors. May we return the favour someday!

[Packman41]

< SNIP>...... Just how much is the average Detroit water bill?

These folks seemed to have figured out comparative waters costs for about 30 cities:


http://www.circleofblue.org/waternew...se-since-2010/

They have computed monthly bills for an average family of four using [[1) Low volume; 50 gallons/person [[2) Mid volume; 100 gallons/person and [[3) high volume; 150 gallons/person. If you look at their chart, above, you will see that Detroiters with MID volume would have a water bill of $37.02 per month. This is among the lowest quartile - only 7 other cities have a lower water bill and 6 cities are billed more than TWICE as much as Detroit.

[Honky Tonk]

Not until now: Detroit Water Brigade

Dudley Do-Right to the rescue!

Seriously though, this is a supremely magnanimous gesture by our northerly neighbors. May we return the favour someday!

Kudos to the Canadians. Let's see how they feel about paying for someone elses water 40 years from now. As far as the Detoit Water Brigade and their plan of action, I think I'll just keep on paying my water bill.

[cla1945]

I didn't know this, but I guess water for drinking, showering, flushing the toilet, cooking, etc., is all free in Canada. If it's not free to Canadians, when the homeowners don't pay their water bills, the bucket brigade must provide free water to them as well. I love our Canadian neighbors, but I think they should mind their own business and let Detroit get on with collecting unpaid water bills from those who choose not to pay, for whatever reason!

[Jimaz]

FWIW, the poll at the end of the OP article is currently at:

Do you consider it a human rights violation to shut off water services to those whose bills are in arrears?

Yes 70.16% [[3,109 votes)

No 29.84% [[1,322 votes)

Let's watch how that changes as all the flying monkeys start doing their dirty deeds.

[Detroitnerd]

It's all well and good to pat free enterprise on the back when it produces good outcomes, but not everything in life is profitable, and not everything in life needs to be run by free-market rules.

What's come over this country in the last 30 years is a kind of religious, free-market fundamentalism, where smug individuals don't see any larger social mission for government at all. It's very sad to watch.

My grandparents' generation learned -- at great cost -- that a society that gives itself over to a super idea that is lifted above all other ideas will end in destruction. Too many people now lift the commandments of the "free market" above all else, especially when it socks it to their perceived enemies.

Guess what? You're part of the unthinking consensus that is leading America down the road to being a failed state. Your grandchildren and great-grandchildren will regard you in infamy.

[DetroitPlanner]

Make no mistake, water rates have gone up quite a bit in Detroit. However, it is still relatively cheap on a national scale. We are spoiled.

I think this was brought up on the fireworks thread, it is amazing people can find money to buy all sorts of useless crap, but can't pay for a basic utility they need to live. It is a matter of complacency, priority, and behaviour, not of affordability in nearly all cases. How many have a cell phone, car, cable, but no water?

[Scottathew]

I didn't know this, but I guess water for drinking, showering, flushing the toilet, cooking, etc., is all free in Canada. If it's not free to Canadians, when the homeowners don't pay their water bills, the bucket brigade must provide free water to them as well. I love our Canadian neighbors, but I think they should mind their own business and let Detroit get on with collecting unpaid water bills from those who choose not to pay, for whatever reason!

Excellent point, well stated!

The big issue here isn't that people can't afford water, but rather that they were allowed not to pay but still get the service for too long.

[401don]

Excellent point, well stated!

The big issue here isn't that people can't afford water, but rather that they were allowed not to pay but still get the service for too long.

I agree. How can the city, knowing it neglected collections for so long, and knowing the money management skills of its customers, suddenly expect to collect. They should probably wipe out all bills over 120 days and go forward with payment plans and clear shut-off policies.

[Scottathew]

I agree. How can the city, knowing it neglected collections for so long, and knowing the money management skills of its customers, suddenly expect to collect. They should probably wipe out all bills over 120 days and go forward with payment plans and clear shut-off policies.

That's a possible solution.

I have a hard time sympathizing with people who willfully choose to prioritize non-critical things over water. I also don't like rewarding people for doing the wrong thing.

However, the city is at fault as well, and your plan addresses that aspect of it. I could see the fairness in still shutting the water off, but only demanding 120 days. This of course would only apply to residential customers.

[Wesley Mouch]

Nice gesture. Nice posturing. But water isn't what's needed. Its money.

So please keep 'our' water. But do please pay their water bills.

There's no water shortage. Just a money shortage.

[oladub]

It would be more efficient for these Canadians to just pay these water bills although the theater aspect would be lost. No one should be cut off from water. Michigan should shoulder the bill through welfare but since most of Michigan has a lower median income than Detroit, Michigan should set some qualifiers such as no cable tv, cars worth more than 'x', or other non-necessary assets. Another less meddlesome approach would be to deduct water bills from welfare benefits after such benefits were raised enough to pay for water. There would then be an incentive to moderate water use. if Canadians want to do a photo op with water jugs, that's ok too.

[Zacha341]

I think to obtain state public assistance you have to list the kind of car you have. Perhaps not. I know I cannot afford cable TV. And Canadian water 'bottle' photo opt will be of little use come late November.

DWSD needs to get their billing together too. The three month billing cycle only help create this volcano of debt and unpaid bills.

[Honky Tonk]

I know I cannot afford cable TV.

Yes you can. Just don't pay your water bill. They don't do anything anyway.

[Zacha341]

And in some cases a PRIORITY shortage! I've always paid my water bill and I sacrifice to be able to pay my core bills 'first'. For years, as I said elsewhere, it was known that nothing changed rather one paid the water bill or not. Heck! The bill didn't even come in your name. Just 'residence', and for sure some of the dead-beat landlords where not making it a priority.

Nice gesture. Nice posturing. But water isn't what's needed. Its money.

So please keep 'our' water. But do please pay their water bills.

There's no water shortage. Just a money shortage.

[trotwood]

Without getting into the who's right/who's wrong of this issue I applaud the Canadian effort.

[Zacha341]

Well actually I think cable is over-priced so that is why I don't even try to afford it. I've fully adapted to streamed TV now.

To the point: You know the dead-beat landlord is a factor here. Most of these two and four-family homes and other rental property in the D have one [[1) water bill going to one particular resident [[unit) that is to be paid by owner of property who chooses/ chose to ignore it, until -- well, until the day of reckoning: shut off.

Yes you can. Just don't pay your water bill. They don't do anything anyway.

[Honky Tonk]

Well actually I think cable is over-priced so that is why I don't even try to afford it. I've fully adapted to streamed TV now.

To the point: You know the dead-beat landlord is a factor here. Most of these two and four-family homes and other rental property in the D have one [[1) water bill going to one particular resident [[unit) that is to be paid by owner of property who chooses/ chose to ignore it, until -- well, until the day of reckoning: shut off.

That depends on the deal that was worked out before the tenant moved in. If the tenant was to pay for utilities, then there is a problem. Do you evict them? Can you get another, more trustworthy tenant? What about the outstanding water bill the previous tenant was supposed to be paying for? I keep thinking I ought to get a TV. Then I go over someone's home who has a 58" flat panel, with 2 mil channels. I watch for a while, think the show's silly, and change my mind.