Mid-day street life in the CBD.

[nain rouge]

My complaint about the Riverwalk is that it feels separated from the rest of the city. In a perfect world, I'd like to see more residential and commercial development directly on the riverfront, and the Riverwalk feels like a barrier to such a possibility in its current configuration. I'll never understand how people see this: http://experiencedetroit.com/riverfr...s/image003.jpg , and think, 'Wow, this is so fun!' I'd rather have a grassy park if that's all we're going to do with the land.

[DetroitPlanner]

Interesting responses!

As far as malls go, I've noticed that urban pedestrian malls are most successful in mediumish college towns. Kalamazoo's mall has been doing OK since it's been downsized, as it was a bit too ambitious. Charlottesville, VA [[home of University of Virginia) has a tremendously successful mall in its downtown. The key is that it both have a captive audience of college students without cars, and the core area is small enough that most students can walk to the mall or take the bus in a reasonable amount of time.

Urban pedestrian malls in bigger cities that depend on people to drive to it from hither and tither are doomed to failure, because the suburban competition is infinitely more convenient for drivers. Circle Centre in Indy shows the struggles of a mall in a big city downtown [[though it's an indoor mall). Essentially, it's two floors too big. They way overestimated demand.

K'zoo's mall was a response to help save some retail downtown and a lot of its tax base that did not consume services [[businesses are cash cows for cities, while residential neighborhoods get more services than they generate in tax revenues; the worst is mobile home parks where the taxes are nothing, but they still demand a lot of services through density, schools, policing). Both Portage and the township West of K'zoo had developed malls with anchors and the main Department stores moved out leaving just the small stores and regional Department stores [[Gilmore's and Jacobson's). In the late 1980's even those two shut down. The thought at the time of switching it back to a 2-way street was to provide better car access to the downtown. It seems to have helped somewhat. It was shortly after that that the other downtown malls started to reverse. The ones in Battle Creek and Lansing went away, there was also one in Ithaca NY that was sharply shortened.

[DetroitPlanner]

Keep in mind that the riverwalk is no where near done yet. Yes there are key pieces in place, but the western side has not been touched and along the East there is still expected to be mixed use built on the GM parking lots. In addition Milliken Park will open up their welcome center on steroids in the old dry dock building. These will improve both accessiblity and viability of the strip. Plus it is a hell of a lot better than what it replaced. I don't think anyone would argue that it is not.

[Detroitdave]

And yet downtown probably had more pubs and taverns then ...

None of those people had cars , there weren't any freeways or malls and the best shopping was downtown :-)

[Lowell]

Love it or hate it, it's day and night different from end of last century downtown Downtown Detroit.

[Detroitnerd]

Love it or hate it, it's day and night different from end of last century downtown Downtown Detroit.

Is it?

[Honky Tonk]

Is it?

Beat me to it.

[Detroitdave]

Yeah, but that was during either the war effort or a Presidents visit :-)

[Honky Tonk]

Yeah, but that was during either the war effort or a Presidents visit :-)

Yeah well the other one was during the World Cup.... and they had to put up a big screen.

[nain rouge]

That old photo captures a typical line for Vernors. You know, WHEN DETROIT WAS VIBRANT!

[Honky Tonk]

That old photo captures a typical line for Vernors. You know, WHEN DETROIT WAS VIBRANT!

It looks like Summer time. Probably Boston Coolers......

[Hamtragedy]

The cbd looks like a pajama party.

[RO_Resident]

Dan squeezes the city, like so many lemons.

You buy his lemonade and thank him for it.

Hey, I'll take Gilbert's lemonade over the shit sandwich provided by tons of other 'developers' that strategically buy properties only to let them rot, or invest the minimum amount of money to keep the properties habitable, or turn them into another parking lot.

No doubt some of them are getting the same breaks that Gilbert is getting.

[Detroitnerd]

Hey, I'll take Gilbert's lemonade over the shit sandwich provided by tons of other 'developers' that strategically buy properties only to let them rot, or invest the minimum amount of money to keep the properties habitable, or turn them into another parking lot.

No doubt some of them are getting the same breaks that Gilbert is getting.

Fair enough, ROR.

[ABetterDetroit]

I like both. When I was a kid, I have plans for the Compuware site I drew up that had better access, a bigger tower, and not such an unsightly parking garage. It also had a lot more retail, but that was 30 years ago when there was a lot more retail downtown so it seemed realistic, and as a kid I was optimistic. I liked Trapper's Alley, but the size and vertical nature of the building was its downfall. It could not keep tennants on the upper floors. Those should have been reserved for a different use. I liked Greektown pre-Trapper's Alley when there were a lot of privately run third places [[coffee shops, bakeries, video game parlors [[hey it was the 80's)). I am concerned about it now that it is controlled only a few families; with one being by far dominant and tearing up the place for un-needed skyways.

Cadillac Square I like it now better than when it was a bus depot. I miss the ham places, one of which is now a parking lot. I am not convinced a plaza is needed there. It is true that many downtowns built plazas in the 1960's that copied what Victor Gruen did to save Kalamazoo, but nearly every one of those was a disaster. They were also the focal point of their downtown, which Cadillac Square isn't. Cadillac Square is more of a complimentary space. What is going on there these days is driving me batty. Paving good roads for basketball courts, painting over the courts. Makes me wonder who is pulling the string and paying for it. I've not seen a bill or an official plan.

Planner,
I'm aware that the deck at the Book Cadillac could be expanded vertically. I thought that the Compuware deck was similar. Go or no go on the vertical expansion of existing if owner/devoloper were inclined?

[detroitbob]

It seems to me that Capital Park is the new downtown neighborhood with the number of projected loft and apartments plus artist lofts and small businessed planned for the stretch of Griswold between Michigan and Clifford. Two bright spots = the reinvigorated Downtown Synagogue and Louie's at Clifford St. The clearing of the east side of the street between Grand River and Clifford will be a development that some say will include parking/retail/apartments--although yet to be announced. Taking into consideration the other nearby developments at the old AOD Chancery Bldg. and the new apartments on top of the garage at Griswold and Michigan plus the Griswold/State building tis promises to be a lively 5 block area. I already seeing sgnificant foot traffic at what was considered "off peak" hours.

[Scottathew]

Planner,
I'm aware that the deck at the Book Cadillac could be expanded vertically. I thought that the Compuware deck was similar. Go or no go on the vertical expansion of existing if owner/devoloper were inclined?

The Compuware deck is already 10 levels, I would be surprised if you could go much higher.

There's a notch-out in the back of the Compuware Building that was meant for possible expansion, it's above the gym there. You can see the I-beams sticking out of the roof of the gym. The Compuware Building has 20 elevator shafts, but only 16 of them currently have elevators. The four empty shafts were meant to serve an expanded Compuware building.

[ABetterDetroit]

The Compuware deck is already 10 levels, I would be surprised if you could go much higher.

There's a notch-out in the back of the Compuware Building that was meant for possible expansion, it's above the gym there. You can see the I-beams sticking out of the roof of the gym. The Compuware Building has 20 elevator shafts, but only 16 of them currently have elevators. The four empty shafts were meant to serve an expanded Compuware building.

Thanks for the clarification, I remembered something being possible for expansion at the Compuware location and mistakenly thought it was the deck. That explains why my searches came up empty because I was searching the deck and not the building.

[1953]

My favorite thing downtown these days is police officers directing traffic and pedestrians. Granted, DPD has no idea how to do this - since we haven't had regular crowds in decades downtown - but you know you've hit a serious milestone when police are needed for crowd control on a normal day.

1953

[stinkytofu]

My favorite thing downtown these days is police officers directing traffic and pedestrians. Granted, DPD has no idea how to do this - since we haven't had regular crowds in decades downtown - but you know you've hit a serious milestone when police are needed for crowd control on a normal day.

1953

I noticed there were a few cops directing traffic around Campus Martius earlier this week. Definitely thought..."Whoa, this is like a 'real' city type of thing going on"...

[dtowncitylover]

I noticed there were a few cops directing traffic around Campus Martius earlier this week. Definitely thought..."Whoa, this is like a 'real' city type of thing going on"...

A couple weeks ago, I took my nephew to a Tiger's game and we went straight to Jefferson to northbound Woodward, going into Campus Martius was like driving into Times Square. Grant it, it was a Tigers game day but I thought I would be a bit far south for that much traffic. Had to put my "city driving" cap on [[which usually is always on).

I would also like to voice my observations. It seems like pedestrian CBD traffic, predominately white, always seem to end at Grand River and north of there you would walk past the homeless and bus waiters, who are predominately black [[I also noticed this going along and past Washington Blvd., that might be because of the senior living complexes). So even in this tiny part of downtown, I noticed a segregation of sorts. Hopefully with the rehab of 1520 and 1528 Woodward, and the future opening of the David Whitney, we can begin to bridge the gap between CM and GCP.

[RO_Resident]

Gilbert, among other folks, got a profile in the NY Times Magazine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/ma...c-detroit.html

[stinkytofu]

I would also like to voice my observations. It seems like pedestrian CBD traffic, predominately white, always seem to end at Grand River and north of there you would walk past the homeless and bus waiters, who are predominately black [[I also noticed this going along and past Washington Blvd., that might be because of the senior living complexes). So even in this tiny part of downtown, I noticed a segregation of sorts. Hopefully with the rehab of 1520 and 1528 Woodward, and the future opening of the David Whitney, we can begin to bridge the gap between CM and GCP.

True. I think the David Whitney and some other redevelopments along Woodward are steps to link Campus Martius and Grand Circus, but the real connector will be the eventual development of the Hudson site.

[Spartan]

A couple weeks ago, I took my nephew to a Tiger's game and we went straight to Jefferson to northbound Woodward, going into Campus Martius was like driving into Times Square. Grant it, it was a Tigers game day but I thought I would be a bit far south for that much traffic. Had to put my "city driving" cap on [[which usually is always on).

I would also like to voice my observations. It seems like pedestrian CBD traffic, predominately white, always seem to end at Grand River and north of there you would walk past the homeless and bus waiters, who are predominately black [[I also noticed this going along and past Washington Blvd., that might be because of the senior living complexes). So even in this tiny part of downtown, I noticed a segregation of sorts. Hopefully with the rehab of 1520 and 1528 Woodward, and the future opening of the David Whitney, we can begin to bridge the gap between CM and GCP.

Yeah, David Whitney will help some, but the problem is the general lack of anything between GCP and Grand River. Right now, there's not much to draw people to those two blocks other than walking between Gilbertville and Ilitchville. Aside from a few residents at Lofts @ Woodward Center, it's mostly just empty storefronts and buildings. The new places [[Cornerstone Barrel House and the restaurant in Wright-Kay should help some). Some kind of development in either the Tall-Eez Shoes location would tie that corner down really bridge that dead space.