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  1. #1

    Default Why haven't we had a plan like this for Metro-Detroit?


  2. #2

    Default

    There's no group with the political authority to make a plan like that.

    For the same reasons that it's taken so long for the regional transit authority to be made and why it's still up in the air over whether or not it'll has the teeth to actually do anything.

    Or why there's the perpetual intention of different suburbs making their own water systems.

    Or why the region is made up of a billion different municipalities.

  3. #3

    Default

    Because the Buffalo Metro as a whole has been declining whereas Metro Detroit is not. Wasn't there just a thread about how many jobs were created in Oakland County?

  4. #4

    Default

    These kind of plans are for consultants to make money. Just pie in the sky ideas that nobody follows through on.

  5. #5

    Default

    In Greater Detroit, every politician is narrowly focused on their own petty fiefdoms and many *cough* (brooks)*cough* are convinced that what benefits one region harms another

  6. #6

    Default

    Besides we have Chase Bank investing over 100 million dollars for Detroit's infrastructure. Dan Gilbert investing a billion dollars to buy every last building in Downtown (Gilberttown) Detroit so he can move his yuppified venture friends to those buildings and the State of Michigan I mean (Mich-issippi) investing 195 million dollars to bailout Detroit City Government out of bankruptcy and save the art from the DIA.

    That's more than enough than Buffalo's billion dollar plan that will go bust in a couple years.

  7. #7

    Default

    not going to happen until there is... forget it.. not going to happen..

  8. #8
    That Great Guy Guest

    Default

    We have the Detroit 2 Billion Dollar Plan

    Vision, Growth, Sustainability, Jobs planned by SEMCOG for a brighter future driven by high technology and more and larger retail and food stores for the hard working taxpayers in the City of Detroit to have access to $9 to $13 per hour full time jobs and Obamacare paying into the exchange for the Affordable Heathcare Act.

    True freedom and an end to bankruptcy by means of strong job growth for those who can train to be cashiers or go into the trucking and concrete industries and make lots of money driving the future of urban sprawl of more forests and farmlands being turned into big box stores and housing developments.

    We will beat Buffalo at Baseball, Hockey, Football and in all sports.

    They are One Billion.

    We are Two Billion.
    Last edited by That Great Guy; July-10-14 at 08:36 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post
    These kind of plans are for consultants to make money. Just pie in the sky ideas that nobody follows through on.
    Remember that there are surprisingly large pockets of people who solely exist to write things that have absolutely zero bearing on the real world. All of those analysts you see on CNN or Fox or MSNBC, your Adolf Mongo's of the world, all exist to sell you ideas and create plans that have absolutely no basis or bearing on the real world.

  10. #10

    Default

    "Because the Buffalo Metro as a whole has been declining whereas Metro Detroit is not. "

    Metro Detroit has been, at best, stagnant. Many communities have seen their property values and population decline and not just in Detroit and the inner suburbs. Places like Plymouth Township and Livonia are both "stable" communities which have lost population since 2000.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Novine View Post
    "Because the Buffalo Metro as a whole has been declining whereas Metro Detroit is not. "

    Metro Detroit has been, at best, stagnant. Many communities have seen their property values and population decline and not just in Detroit and the inner suburbs. Places like Plymouth Township and Livonia are both "stable" communities which have lost population since 2000.
    Stagnant, but not suffering. A lot of the older suburbs, such as Livonia, have a problem attracting young families (probably because they all don't resemble Royal Oak/less than desirable schools), but still have pretty stable job centers. Unlike Buffalo, Detroit's suburbs aren't in a downward spiral of an economy (especially since much of them are tied to the health of the Big 3).
    Last edited by animatedmartian; July-12-14 at 12:46 AM.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    Stagnant, but not suffering. A lot of the older suburbs, such as Livonia, have a problem attracting young families (probably because they all don't resemble Royal Oak/less than desirable schools), but still have pretty stable job centers. Unlike Buffalo, Detroit's suburbs aren't in a downward spiral of an economy (especially since much of them are tied to the health of the Big 3).
    The Detroit MSA declined in population by over 156,000 residents between 2000 and 2010, which was more than other MSA in the country. I'm not sure what your definition of declining is, but I'm sure that most people would consider Metro Detroit to be in decline.

  13. #13

    Default

    Why don't we have a plan like this? You haven't noticed?

    The plan is the current bankruptcy reorganization by Kevin Orr.

    The 'Billion' dollars is funds from Chase, Unions, Philanthropists, and the State of Michigan -- probably over a Billion if you count everything.
    Last edited by Wesley Mouch; July-12-14 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Remove snarkiness. Simplify

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    The Detroit MSA declined in population by over 156,000 residents between 2000 and 2010, which was more than other MSA in the country. I'm not sure what your definition of declining is, but I'm sure that most people would consider Metro Detroit to be in decline.
    Again, tied to the Big 3. Throughout the 2000s, the auto-industry was leading up to the eventual collapse which meant they were outsourcing jobs left and right and trying to trim costs. Then of course by 2008, the collapse happened and a substantial number of jobs were lost. (and thus more people left for greener pastures).

    Most every other decade for Metro Detroit saw growth plus between 2010 to 2013, Metro Detroit has seen population rebound upward. Even taking into account the reshuffling of the population, there's still in-migration coming from outside the metro.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    Again, tied to the Big 3. Throughout the 2000s, the auto-industry was leading up to the eventual collapse which meant they were outsourcing jobs left and right and trying to trim costs. Then of course by 2008, the collapse happened and a substantial number of jobs were lost. (and thus more people left for greener pastures).

    Most every other decade for Metro Detroit saw growth plus between 2010 to 2013, Metro Detroit has seen population rebound upward. Even taking into account the reshuffling of the population, there's still in-migration coming from outside the metro.
    All I"m establishing here is the fact that Metro Detroit is in decline. If you want to attribute it to the Big 3 then okay, but that is just a detail. FYI- As of 2013 Metro Detroit is still estimated to be below its 2010 census population.
    Last edited by iheartthed; July-13-14 at 07:04 AM.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    All I"m establishing here is the fact that Metro Detroit is in decline. If you want to attribute it to the Big 3 then okay, but that is just a detail. FYI- As of 2013 Metro Detroit is still estimated to be below its 2010 census population.
    And I'd disagree and say that Detroit isn't declining. Especially at the same extent of other Rust Belt metros. Buffalo's metro has seen constant decline since 1980 and that's pretty indisputable.

    It's true that Detroit's MSA numbers are still under 2010 numbers but by only by 2-3,000. That's easily a drop in the bucket for a large metropolitan area and 2014 likely went over the 2010 population count. Especially considering that 2012 and 2013 are positive growth years with 4,094 and 2,151 respectively. With the fair bit of positive news about Metro Detroit's economy as of late, I would expect that 2014 easily covered that 3,000 person deficit.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    And I'd disagree and say that Detroit isn't declining. Especially at the same extent of other Rust Belt metros. Buffalo's metro has seen constant decline since 1980 and that's pretty indisputable.

    It's true that Detroit's MSA numbers are still under 2010 numbers but by only by 2-3,000. That's easily a drop in the bucket for a large metropolitan area and 2014 likely went over the 2010 population count. Especially considering that 2012 and 2013 are positive growth years with 4,094 and 2,151 respectively. With the fair bit of positive news about Metro Detroit's economy as of late, I would expect that 2014 easily covered that 3,000 person deficit.
    A criteria for being a Rust Belt metropolis is that your region is in perceived decline. I haven't argued that Detroit is worse than Buffalo -- that's irrelevant for determining whether Detroit itself is in decline.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    All I"m establishing here is the fact that Metro Detroit is in decline. If you want to attribute it to the Big 3 then okay, but that is just a detail. FYI- As of 2013 Metro Detroit is still estimated to be below its 2010 census population.
    If you compare 1998 and 2014, then yes its in decline. If you compare the last 4 consecutive years then its not in decline, its growing.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
    A criteria for being a Rust Belt metropolis is that your region is in perceived decline. I haven't argued that Detroit is worse than Buffalo -- that's irrelevant for determining whether Detroit itself is in decline.
    That's more of a matter of opinion in my view. My idea of a Rust Belt city was just a city in the upper-midwest that's primarily based on manufacturing. I didn't think it conjured an image of the condition of such cities.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    That's more of a matter of opinion in my view. My idea of a Rust Belt city was just a city in the upper-midwest that's primarily based on manufacturing. I didn't think it conjured an image of the condition of such cities.
    When invented back in the day, it was very clearly a term associated with decline of said manufacturing.

    The term isn't steel belt, its rust. Rust never sleeps, it seems for us.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
    That's more of a matter of opinion in my view. My idea of a Rust Belt city was just a city in the upper-midwest that's primarily based on manufacturing. I didn't think it conjured an image of the condition of such cities.
    For what it's worth Wikipedia seems to be on the same page as me:

    The Rust Belt is the informal description for a postindustrial region straddling the Northeastern and the East North Central States, referring to economic decline, population loss and urban decay due to the shrinking of its once powerful industrial sector. The term gained popularity in the United States in the 1980s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt

  22. #22

    Default

    Wikipedia is always right.

    Note that they say 1980s.

    To me at least, the term tells you what was happening in Youngstown, Milwaukee, and Detroit in the 1980s. America's northern manufacturing was starting to rust.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Wikipedia is always right.

    Note that they say 1980s.

    To me at least, the term tells you what was happening in Youngstown, Milwaukee, and Detroit in the 1980s. America's northern manufacturing was starting to rust.
    I read it. I think it's kind of odd that we're even debating that Rust Belt is a euphemism for decline. Did you all think it was a term of endearment? lol.

  24. #24

    Default

    That's what I get for being born in the next decade, I guess.
    Last edited by animatedmartian; July-13-14 at 10:51 AM.

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