Can we divest from Nolan Finley?

[Patrick]

Nolan Finley is on a roll lately with his editorial pieces. He seems to have a problem with "Belle Isle rowdies" shifting to downtown. So, just who are these "rowdies" Mr. Finley is talking about? He needs to be more specific.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...shift-downtown

[cla1945]

I'm pretty sure he was referring to Riverdays June 21 and 22 when there were more than a couple fights that broke out with teens and gangs.

[Johnnny5]

He was pretty darn specific as to what he considers a "Rowdy".

Those — "being loud and obnoxious, swearing, fighting and generally making it uncomfortable for people who come downtown for dining and entertainment."

There's really no shortage of nonsense and borderline offensive Finley opinion pieces. This one would not even make the list.

[Dexlin]

I love how he was attributing to the police state on Belle Isle the pusing of the "rowdies" downtown. lol Because you just know he was bitching about the "rowdies" on Belle Isle. Nolan, they don't just disappear because you want them to. You know the old saying, be careful what you wish for, it might just come true.

I'd never taken Nolan serious as a legitimate voice for anything, but I completely wrote him off years ago after a disgustingly and unapologetically racist editorial he did about '67, which is saying something given the history of the News. He's a miserable man much older than his years who I have no doubt would have been writing glowingly about Orville Hubbard were he born earlier. You just know he's the type of guy privately pissed and frustrated as all get out that he can't use racial slurs in polite conversation, anymore, bless his heart. lol

[Detroit500]

My guess is in eleven years you will. Don't be surprised if Gannett refuses to extend the JOA.

[Danny]

When Finley say 'rowdies' He meant drug dealers, mutants, DEAD [[C)KRAK HEADS, gang cliques, rapists, robbers, muggers, homeless folks, vagrants, con artists, scammers, juveniles, slackers and poor uneducated black males.

[Scottathew]

I don't see how the article could be found to be offensive or eyebrow raising. There seems to be a certain mindset of people that find combating punks and arresting people with warrants as a bad thing. This mindset of people don't want Detroit to comeback, because it would mean restoring civility, arresting people with warrants, and sending the punks packing.

[Danny]

That won't stop white people from coming to Detroit to work, play and live. They want their city back.

[FbO Vorcha]

Nolan Finley is on a roll lately with his editorial pieces. He seems to have a problem with "Belle Isle rowdies" shifting to downtown. So, just who are these "rowdies" Mr. Finley is talking about? He needs to be more specific.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...shift-downtown

So, let's suppose he gets more specific in just what he means by "rowdies". Just what will you say about it, because I suspect you already think you know what he means by "Belle Isle Rowdies".

Why don't you tell us all what he means, since you seem to have the inside track on just what he means.

[FbO Vorcha]

I don't see how the article could be found to be offensive or eyebrow raising. There seems to be a certain mindset of people that find combating punks and arresting people with warrants as a bad thing. This mindset of people don't want Detroit to comeback, because it would mean restoring civility, arresting people with warrants, and sending the punks packing.

Actually it would mean saying things that get you accused of being a racist just for reporting the facts.

Ignoring the facts just because they'll piss of certain groups [[regardless of the group) is a lot like the Black Knight bit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, despite all facts to the contrary - he insisted that he could not be defeated. [[It's merely a flesh wound - Flesh wound, your arm's off - No it isn't)

[FbO Vorcha]

That won't stop white people from coming to Detroit to work, play and live. They want their city back.

Let's be a bit more honest here. PEOPLE WANT THEIR CITY BACK, white, black, red, purple, chartreuse, green, yellow, blue, they want to feel safe, they want to be able to go out the door and find they still have a fricken car - complete with all the parts they left it with. They'd like to be able to walk down the street with out having their money, things, and life removed forcefully from their body.

Do you just not get it, People ARE people, period. They don't go where they are likely to be injured unless they have some sort of mental problem or death wish [[which I guess would be sort of a mental problem - so forget that 'death wish' part), we all learned not to play in traffic because we could get hurt - it's no different than going to 'problem areas', you learn not to do it.

[FbO Vorcha]

He was pretty darn specific as to what he considers a "Rowdy".

Those — "being loud and obnoxious, swearing, fighting and generally making it uncomfortable for people who come downtown for dining and entertainment."

So, yo don't consider that to be rowdy behavior? Just what is that then? Good ol' clean American fun, suitable for all ages?

Would you bring you family around that behavior? How about your elderly grandmother [[the one you like, not that other one that you're just waiting to die so you can get your inheritance), would you feel good about leaving her right there next to a group behaving like that, or would you collect her senile old ass up and move her someplace [[almost said safer, but then I realized that you might just consider this a fine environment for everyone from newborn to near death.) where this type of behavior is not occurring?

Or are all you all trying to say something else without actually saying it. I think I might be missing some subtext here - you know, sometimes I can be a bit dense, could you actually come out and explain to me just exactly what you're saying, but not saying. That'd probably help clear things up quite a bit.

[Johnnny5]

So, yo don't consider that to be rowdy behavior? Just what is that then? Good ol' clean American fun, suitable for all ages?

Would you bring you family around that behavior? How about your elderly grandmother [[the one you like, not that other one that you're just waiting to die so you can get your inheritance), would you feel good about leaving her right there next to a group behaving like that, or would you collect her senile old ass up and move her someplace [[almost said safer, but then I realized that you might just consider this a fine environment for everyone from newborn to near death.) where this type of behavior is not occurring?

Or are all you all trying to say something else without actually saying it. I think I might be missing some subtext here - you know, sometimes I can be a bit dense, could you actually come out and explain to me just exactly what you're saying, but not saying. That'd probably help clear things up quite a bit.

You're definitely taking my post the wrong way. I agree with Finley's point of how increased law enforcement on Belle Isle may be shifting some of the "rowdiness" to other parts of the city, and I definitely don't think that behavior is acceptable downtown. My post was questioning why when there are so many Finley opinion pieces to criticize, why the OP chose to call him out over one that is non political, fairly logical and mundane.

[FbO Vorcha]

You're definitely taking my post the wrong way. I agree with Finley's point of how increased law enforcement on Belle Isle may be shifting some of the "rowdiness" to other parts of the city, and I definitely don't think that behavior is acceptable downtown. My post was questioning why when there are so many Finley opinion pieces to criticize, why the OP chose to call him out over one that is non political, fairly logical and mundane.

Apologies, and I agree.

[Danny]

Let's be a bit more honest here. PEOPLE WANT THEIR CITY BACK, white, black, red, purple, chartreuse, green, yellow, blue, they want to feel safe, they want to be able to go out the door and find they still have a fricken car - complete with all the parts they left it with. They'd like to be able to walk down the street with out having their money, things, and life removed forcefully from their body.

Do you just not get it, People ARE people, period. They don't go where they are likely to be injured unless they have some sort of mental problem or death wish [[which I guess would be sort of a mental problem - so forget that 'death wish' part), we all learned not to play in traffic because we could get hurt - it's no different than going to 'problem areas', you learn not to do it.

White people want Detroit back, then comes diversity.

[Mikeg]

....There's really no shortage of nonsense and borderline offensive Finley opinion pieces....

You mean like this one?

[cla1945]

White people want Detroit back, then comes diversity.

Trying not to be labeled a racist and trying to just have a conversation here, what I'm seeing is a lot of white people doing their best to make Detroit a better place to be. I don't see a lot of black people getting out there, trying to improve it. Maybe I'm way off base here and if I am, sorry. But I see white suburbanites in every neighborhood, cleaning up blight, I see the white owners of businesses in Detroit stepping up, donating huge amounts of money towards the betterment of Detroit, I see many more white entrepreneurs than black ones. I see all the black preachers who don't pay a dime in city taxes out there criticizing anyone who has a different skin color at every turn. I read about Conyers yelling from the top of his walker that shutting off water is inhumane while hundreds of residents simply didn't pay their bill because the city was never forceful in collecting them. All colors of people want Detroit back, but from what I'm witnessing, more whites are making the effort than anyone else.

Now...let the feeding frenzy begin.

[mwilbert]

I suspect that perhaps people are reacting to the piece differently just because it is written by Finley.

Let's summarize the article.

1) There are fewer teens hanging out on Belle Isle. [[no supporting data, but it seems likely given the changes there.)

2) More teens are coming downtown and behaving in a way that some people don't think is appropriate. [[quote from Harold Love)

3) These are teens who used to hang out on Belle Isle. [[again, that is what Harold Love thinks)

4) This is a potential problem for keeping downtown attractive to other visitors. [[logical conclusion)

In and of itself, I don't see the problem with this. Of course, Finley throws in a bunch of vaguely inflammatory words and details, just so we know it's him, but my actual issue with the is that it is stupid. I am willing to believe this is a problem, but the article doesn't actually talk about what is reasonable to do about it.

It seems to me that people should be able to go downtown and hang out if they want. If that is a problem, how do we discourage it without "harassing kids". If the problem is teens misbehaving, then presumably at least in principle we have ways of curbing misbehavior, but if the problem is simply people being downtown and young and in a group making other people nervous, then I'm not sure the problem is legitimately soluble. Really young people are subject to the curfew, and that is mentioned in the article, but are minors the big problem? Article doesn't say. What time of the evening is the problem? Article doesn't say. There just isn't much there.

[mwilbert]

You mean like this one?

No, this one is just stupid. Car shows for dying children? Because one dying child likes cars?

However, I do think reminding people to sign up to be organ donors is good.

[Johnnny5]

Trying not to be labeled a racist and trying to just have a conversation here, what I'm seeing is a lot of white people doing their best to make Detroit a better place to be. I don't see a lot of black people getting out there, trying to improve it. Maybe I'm way off base here and if I am, sorry. But I see white suburbanites in every neighborhood, cleaning up blight, I see the white owners of businesses in Detroit stepping up, donating huge amounts of money towards the betterment of Detroit, I see many more white entrepreneurs than black ones. I see all the black preachers who don't pay a dime in city taxes out there criticizing anyone who has a different skin color at every turn. I read about Conyers yelling from the top of his walker that shutting off water is inhumane while hundreds of residents simply didn't pay their bill because the city was never forceful in collecting them. All colors of people want Detroit back, but from what I'm witnessing, more whites are making the effort than anyone else.

Now...let the feeding frenzy begin.

That's what you choose to see and what the media considers "newsworthy". Dan Gilbert spending millions means a page or two in the newspaper. A group of white suburbanites coming downtown to plant trees makes the evening news. The long time black Detroit resident that has been picking up trash and cutting the empty lots of his block for years isn't going to stand out. He's also not going to make the front page, nor is he likely to brag or blog about what he's been doing. He's just going to do it.

It may also be that the outsiders [[Including white suburbanites) that have not been dealing with the on the ground realities of Detroit are just overly optimistic. They have an exaggerated idea of what their efforts may accomplish and are just not as disillusioned by past failures. Kind of like that restaurant location that changes names and owners over and over again. Someone new comes along, is excited and thinks he will succeed where the other owners failed, but the neighborhood knows the place will be shuttered again in 6 months.

[FbO Vorcha]

White people want Detroit back, then comes diversity.

Danny, just call a spade a spade and get it over with.

[FbO Vorcha]

That's what you choose to see and what the media considers "newsworthy". Dan Gilbert spending millions means a page or two in the newspaper. A group of white suburbanites coming downtown to plant trees makes the evening news. The long time black Detroit resident that has been picking up trash and cutting the empty lots of his block for years isn't going to stand out. He's also not going to make the front page, nor is he likely to brag or blog about what he's been doing. He's just going to do it.

They also tend to not report black mob violence when it occurs, or if they do, they go through great mental gymnastics to avoid stating the race of the attackers or victims. What you see in the news [[and that lower-case n is intentional the news, not The News) is not necessarily what actually occurred.

[Wesley Mouch]

Trying not to be labeled a racist and trying to just have a conversation here, what I'm seeing is a lot of white people doing their best to make Detroit a better place to be. I don't see a lot of black people getting out there, trying to improve it. Maybe I'm way off base here and if I am, sorry. But I see white suburbanites in every neighborhood, cleaning up blight, I see the white owners of businesses in Detroit stepping up, donating huge amounts of money towards the betterment of Detroit, I see many more white entrepreneurs than black ones. I see all the black preachers who don't pay a dime in city taxes out there criticizing anyone who has a different skin color at every turn. I read about Conyers yelling from the top of his walker that shutting off water is inhumane while hundreds of residents simply didn't pay their bill because the city was never forceful in collecting them. All colors of people want Detroit back, but from what I'm witnessing, more whites are making the effort than anyone else.

Now...let the feeding frenzy begin.

I always hear that we need a 'dialog on race'. But usually the dialog is STFU, you're a racist.

White-boy Wes agrees that black Detroit hasn't stepped up to the plate as much as it can or should. I'd like to hear how cla is wrong -- but the feeling that he's right is prevalent and is a basic problem. So let's get about healing and dialog.

[Dumpling]

I don't have an archive handy but I believe that one time Mr. Finley wrote a piece
comparing Livonia and Detroit, focusing on relative taxation loads and quality of life.
I believe that at that time he was a resident of Livonia.
Checking Wikipedia, one finds that for Livonia, the overall population dropped a few percent between the 2000 census and the 2010 census. At the same time, the Hispanic population
in Livonia increased from 1.7 percent to 2.5 percent. The African American population increased from 1 percent to 3 percent.
The editorial that this thread is about is not too objectionable to me but he should maybe
now run another piece on Livonia versus Detroit again comparing taxation loads and quality of life.
Full disclosure, I am at this time still a City of Detroit employee and still live in the City of Detroit. I used to commute to Livonia for medical care and was pulled over on Seven Mile
after making a left turn off Haggerty on a yellow light. I don't think racial profiling took
place but a fundraising for Livonia police might have, to help keep Livonia taxes low.
As a City of Detroit resident paying City of Detroit auto insurance I don't make left turns on yellow while in Livonia any more. Fortunately Livonia drivers are totally kind and patient
about this.

[unclefrank]

I'm sure most liberals find Nolan Finley odious. After all, the only opinions liberals tolerate are their own. If you doubt this, take a university level course some time.