M-1 Rail construction! Woodward Ave. South of Adams closes July 28

[SpartanDawg]

Did this just get revealed with no fan fare at all?

I'd expect a ceremonial groundbreaking that day or the day before...

Is it actually going to happen?!?!?!

https://twitter.com/TimothyRFischer/...02277144801282

[stinkytofu]

Official. Woodward from Adams to Campus Martius closed for 120 days starting July 28. Finally. http://m-1rail.com/m%E2%80%901-rail-...-july-28-2014/

[SpartanDawg]

Official. Woodward from Adams to Campus Martius closed for 120 days starting July 28. Finally. http://m-1rail.com/m%E2%80%901-rail-...-july-28-2014/

Boom there it is... 30 days and counting.. bout god damn time

[SpartanDawg]

Okay this is the funniest quote of the press release
"Over the next thirty days our team will be pounding the pavement to make everyone who lives, works and visits the Woodward corridor aware of what they should expect from track construction and how to navigate around it once we begin on July 28th"



I feel like they're just messing with people by doing this lolol

[stinkytofu]

Interested to see how the Thanksgiving Parade route may be impacted by construction...the end of this time frame is right when the parade would be. If they are on schedule they may be fine...then again perhaps they'll be working on other parts of Woodward by then?

[emu steve]

Official. Woodward from Adams to Campus Martius closed for 120 days starting July 28. Finally. http://m-1rail.com/m%E2%80%901-rail-...-july-28-2014/

Great news. Glad to see it starting.

But damn, just going to mess up traffic, etc. Lol.

This is my 'for every [[positive) reaction there is another counterbalancing [[negative) reaction.'

[ndavies]

Interested to see how the Thanksgiving Parade route may be impacted by construction...the end of this time frame is right when the parade would be. If they are on schedule they may be fine...then again perhaps they'll be working on other parts of Woodward by then?

Are they still going to be able to have the parade run down Woodward after the streetcar is built or will this just kill off the Balloons? I can't see them disconnecting/removing the overhead power lines just for the parade. They remove the stoplights now. Removing the streetcar power lines seems like a much bigger job.

[SpartanDawg]

Are they still going to be able to have the parade run down Woodward after the streetcar is built or will this just kill off the Balloons? I can't see them disconnecting/removing the overhead power lines just for the parade. They remove the stoplights now. Removing the streetcar power lines seems like a much bigger job.

I don't think streetcar power lines are going to get in the way.. they're not going to run across woodward, just north and south down it.

[ndavies]

I don't think streetcar power lines are going to get in the way.. they're not going to run across woodward, just north and south down it.

They'll run down the middle of the road North of the CBD and in the outside lanes in the CBD. They will be in the way. They have to be suspended from something.

[drjeff]

They'll run down the middle of the road North of the CBD and in the outside lanes in the CBD. They will be in the way. They have to be suspended from something.

The parade has been in Detroit since the 1920s. So they managed to deal with the Woodward streetcar for 30-odd years.

[professorscott]

They'll run down the middle of the road North of the CBD and in the outside lanes in the CBD. They will be in the way. They have to be suspended from something.

Everyone seems to be assuming the streetcar will be running with overhead wires in the traditional fashion. If you read the M1 engineering documents, I do not believe this to be the case. I think the vehicles will be run partly or mostly off-wire.

If the streetcars were on-wire it would be along the curb for most of the route anyhow. Parade floats could easily fit between; Woodward is a pretty wide road. But anyhow I don't think the system will be done in that way, at least not entirely.

[1953]

Let's just be sure and make this into a subway instead.

1953

[Mackinaw]

In just over two years, thousands of Detroiters will be able to commute, daily, from home to work or school, without a car. Thousands of visitors to downtown each year will be able to take clean, inexpensive transit to the DIA. One will be able to arrive in downtown Detroit from Chicago and Western Michigan via rail.


..I've never even understood how the parade balloons got around the DPM crossing at GCP. Alas, they'll find their way...

[Dexlin]

They'll run down the middle of the road North of the CBD and in the outside lanes in the CBD. They will be in the way. They have to be suspended from something.

So many misconceptions for people who haven't been paying attention...

- First, no. The streetcar is curb/side running for the vast majority of length. Only at both ends do the lines come together to allow the streetcar to loop. Maybe a handful of stations are in the median at either end.

- The current plan is for most of the streetcar to run "off-wire" meaning that it will run without overhead wires for much of the route. It will be powered by batteries along much of the route cutting down on the catenary. This will actually be fairly unique for a streetcar in the United States.

[lakeland]

According to this map the M-1 station looks to be right next to the new arena. I wonder if they will break ground at the same time or if they have to wait for the M-1 project to finish.

[Danny]

Here comes the People Mover part 2.

[Scottathew]

Here comes the People Mover part 2.

But unlike the PM, this system can be expanded to serve a larger area.

[emu steve]

But unlike the PM, this system can be expanded to serve a larger area.

Agree. PM is a closed loop system w/out expandability options.

This is the first leg of a N leg system.

It could be expanded, if demand warrants, out to 8 Mile, or out Gratiot or out Michigan Ave., etc. etc.

The D.C.-area subway system was started just before I came to D.C. It started as I believe part of the Red Line which went through a good chunk of downtown, D.C.

Later it was expanded and the Blue and Orange lines were added and [[later expanded) and Yellow and Green and coming next month the Silver line.

The question with the Washington system was never ridership. The D.C. downtown is very, very large and employment is huge and there are large employment bases along the line [[e.g., Pentagon). So getting a few hundred thousand trips early on [[now a typical day is say 750K trips) wasn't a problem.

The situation with Detroit is: How many trips to say downtown Detroit [[or Midtown, etc.) would one expect per day assuming the line went to 8 Mile, Michigan Ave. to say Dearborn, and Gratiot?

How many folks, on a typical work day, come to downtown Detroit [[primarily to work)?

The other question is how onerous is it to drive and park in downtown? [[e.g., in D.C., NYC, etc. driving is terrible and parking very expensive).

One hour commutes and $15 - 20 parking can really change the driving/public transportation equation.

Also, re: sports. Parking near Nationals Park is typically $20 - 30. I RT subway ride say $8.

Now, when the Detroit system is up, would a person rather pay say $20 - 30 to park near Ford Field or take M-1 if it went out to the 'burbs?

[Hermod]

But unlike the PM, this system can be expanded to serve a larger area.

We don't knw that. If and when they decide to create a regional light rail network, the technology, procedures, organization, trackwork, power, and equipment may or may not be compatible with M-1 rail. In other words, M-1 rail may well be an orphan and remain a linear people mover with people having to transfer to the regional LRT network.

[stasu1213]

I still believe it when I see the actual groundbreaking of Woodward. As far as the parade goes; John R would be a perfect street for the parade route so would Woodward from Grand Blvd down to Adam

[SpartanDawg]

We don't knw that. If and when they decide to create a regional light rail network, the technology, procedures, organization, trackwork, power, and equipment may or may not be compatible with M-1 rail. In other words, M-1 rail may well be an orphan and remain a linear people mover with people having to transfer to the regional LRT network.

I HATE the comparisons saying this is people mover 2.0 .. oh it's only 3.3 miles and people mover is 2.9 miles


The people mover is a ONE-WAY LOOP that really from edge to edge stretches maybe a mile and half apart. The new rail, if you go by that measurements is 6.6 miles since as a loop that's how much distance it would cover...

It covers a MUCH broader area and the three busiest, people-dense, and most successful neighborhoods in detroit.. it will absolutely trump the people mover ridership by quite a bit

[dtowncitylover]

We don't knw that. If and when they decide to create a regional light rail network, the technology, procedures, organization, trackwork, power, and equipment may or may not be compatible with M-1 rail. In other words, M-1 rail may well be an orphan and remain a linear people mover with people having to transfer to the regional LRT network.

That's not true at all. Cities across the globe are using the same technology and always upgrading the technology of streetcars. The PM could have been upgraded and expanded like in Miami, but then the monorail technology became obsolete because streetcars and light rail become the preferred option.

A streetcar system can be built for the city. We don't necessarily need the larger light rail vehicles. We can build a well connected streetcar system that can serve a potentially growing urban center and city. We could be the Melbourne of the Western Hemisphere. We don't have to be, but it's an option.

I think you're just scared that Detroit could be a transit dependent city and that the freeways you helped build will become obsolete.

[Hermod]

That's not true at all. Cities across the globe are using the same technology and always upgrading the technology of streetcars. The PM could have been upgraded and expanded like in Miami, but then the monorail technology became obsolete because streetcars and light rail become the preferred option.

A streetcar system can be built for the city. We don't necessarily need the larger light rail vehicles. We can build a well connected streetcar system that can serve a potentially growing urban center and city. We could be the Melbourne of the Western Hemisphere. We don't have to be, but it's an option.

I think you're just scared that Detroit could be a transit dependent city and that the freeways you helped build will become obsolete.

If you studied the history of streetcars and the history of the electric interurban systems, you would find that it was very common to end up with networks in which parts are not compatible with other parts. either the systems had to transfer passengers at the points where incompatibility could not be easily solved or they had to create Rube Goldberg solutions where the car had a pantograph for AC running, trolley poles for DC running and to be compatible with slot rail pickup in areas adverse to overhead wires. I don't know how easy it would be to obtain a copy, but the book on interurbans in America by Hilton and Due has some fascinating discussions of varied technologies even in something as simple as an electric car. It is a scholarly book [[expansion of Hilton's PHD dissertation) rather than a coffee table book like ost books on railroads and streetcars.

You know, I truly like paddlewheel steamboats, but I can point out the flaws with having commercial passenger service from Monroe to Detroit without being accused of hating boats.

[dtowncitylover]

If you studied the history of streetcars and the history of the electric interurban systems, you would find that it was very common to end up with networks in which parts are not compatible with other parts. either the systems had to transfer passengers at the points where incompatibility could not be easily solved or they had to create Rube Goldberg solutions where the car had a pantograph for AC running, trolley poles for DC running and to be compatible with slot rail pickup in areas adverse to overhead wires. I don't know how easy it would be to obtain a copy, but the book on interurbans in America by Hilton and Due has some fascinating discussions of varied technologies even in something as simple as an electric car. It is a scholarly book [[expansion of Hilton's PHD dissertation) rather than a coffee table book like ost books on railroads and streetcars.

You know, I truly like paddlewheel steamboats, but I can point out the flaws with having commercial passenger service from Monroe to Detroit without being accused of hating boats.

Hermod, thanks for the suggestion. I might just check it out.

However, I don't think we live in a day where a transit agency would build a system so haphazardly.

[Hermod]

Hermod, thanks for the suggestion. I might just check it out.

However, I don't think we live in a day where a transit agency would build a system so haphazardly.

But, exactly that may be happening. M1 Rail is being designed to optimized the M1 rail route. If the system gets expanded by a regional authority, they may well have different ideas about center running versus street running versus dedicated right-of-way. They may favor different methods of current collection with continuous wire/third rail/slot rail and may well eschew the battery pack and intermittent charging. It may very well be that when a regional system is achieved that M1 rail may be a "maverick" in the system with incompatible equipment, methods, and logistics for replacements and parts.