How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

[nain rouge]

Those are some very good points. There's little debate about Downtown and Midtown being on the road to recovery, with numerous renovations of long abandoned buildings and some degree of new construction. But whenever I look up some address on Google and see an aerial map, I'm struck by the astounding amount of vacant land in "booming" Midtown. It really brings home how deep the hole is into which the city has sunk.

Thank you. I'm big on walking, and when I finally managed to convince my friends to walk from Midtown to Corktown, let me just say that they weren't impressed. I don't mind it, but objectively speaking it's a rough and dreary stretch, to be sure.

And you know, it gets tiring to have people selling BBQ or crepes talked about like their doing mission work. It's not that big of a deal. A lot of starving artists types try to use the Detroit image to boost their egos. For better or worse, it's a place where absolute failure can be rechristened as a glorious opportunity for reinvention.

I think, if trends continue, Midtown can be the basis of a competitive urban area befitting of a city of about 400,000 people. Most of the rest of Detroit is screwed, however. And I think that's also why some people are bitter. It's not always jealousy.

[BankruptcyGuy]

It's not retirees moving downtown [[yet).

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/...ing-in-droves/

Anyone looking for data to prove/disprove the residential inflow downtown need look no further than:

downtown multifamily occupancy [[over 97%)
average per square foot rental rate [[nearly $2/sf, which is a huge number)
number of new/rehabilitated units coming on line [[thousands)

This has not ever happened in my lifetime, and it's wonderful.

[313WX]

Thank you. I'm big on walking, and when I finally managed to convince my friends to walk from Midtown to Corktown, let me just say that they weren't impressed. I don't mind it, but objectively speaking it's a rough and dreary stretch, to be sure.

And you know, it gets tiring to have people selling BBQ or crepes talked about like their doing mission work. It's not that big of a deal. A lot of starving artists types try to use the Detroit image to boost their egos. For better or worse, it's a place where absolute failure can be rechristened as a glorious opportunity for reinvention.

I think, if trends continue, Midtown can be the basis of a competitive urban area befitting of a city of about 400,000 people. Most of the rest of Detroit is screwed, however. And I think that's also why some people are bitter. It's not always jealousy.

Well said nain rouge.

[sumas]

I don't know about ,"well said". I live in a little known but very connected community. I am certainly not naive about blight but to trash all Detroit certainly sucks.

Our neighborhood provides seating.. so many disabled, seniors and just walking folk who rely on buses. All benign folk are welcome!

Strange dude shows up so we watched as did other area people. I did call police after I was approached for a smoke and asked if we have a neighborhood watch. I said yes but we have something better, nosey neighbors.He complimented my home too. Very creepy. I called 911. Another neighbor approached him saying he was an off duty officer. He moved up the street and another neighbor caught the sucker on his porch looking through his windows. Pushed him along. Cops came and spotted him at the corner gas station don't know the story from that point. Police response was excellent given I reported it as a non emergency.

We had a great description and provided that to police. They are doing their job with the help of good neighbors.

[sumas]

Trying to stay on thread our "yuppies" down the street came to confirm info. This is a nice quiet neighborhood and several want to buy in. Just guesting but I would say we have about 32 young people of all races living in close proximity. It's great.

The strange dude I reported just got out of county jail, he was one of the ones wanted for home invasions further north of us. The police could not make much stick but I hope at least our block sent a huge message... we are watching.

[TTime]

Census data doesn't show an uptick for the city as a whole, but I do believe it shows an uptick for the downtown and midtown neighborhoods.

Did your church kids go to Wayne State then decide to commute? Or did they think they were city people and then leave. Not everyone is cut out for city living, and I mean that in the broadest sense. If you couldn't survive in this city then you might not be able to survive in Chicago or Brooklyn.

I would never suggest that someone could gauge if they were able to survive city living based on their experiences in Detroit. Living in Detroit is a very unique experience to be sure with a number of pluses and minuses but very few parallels to Brooklyn or Chicago.

[Detroit500]

More folks are moving into. These immediate areas. Will they stay when they have kids? Maybe. Who knows. But for right now, let's just be grateful they are coming at all.

[e.p.3]

Who do you think is occupying all the rental units in downtown, including many that have opened up in the past 2 years? Occupancy is near 100%. Are these all poor black people paying the highest rents in the city? Your criticism doesn't pass the smell test either.

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms. If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not. This is what booming reads like:

"In the next 24 months, virtually every block in a one-mile stretch of 14th is slated to gain a new or renovated building containing residential units and ground-floor retail space. When the dust clears, the strip will have more than 1,200 additional housing units and more than 85,000 square feet of additional retail space."

http://nytimes.com/2012/05/02/reales...evelopers.html

[Jason]

Subsidies are needed because the region's and the city's rental rates [[something determined by markets, etc.) aren't high enough to pay for the construction [[something determined by the price of physical materials and labor which are independent of rental rates). The $2.00 per square foot number that you're always hearing is supposed to be about the number that is needed to support new construction without the kinds of subsidies we've been seeing so far.

Rents are rising probably as fast as they can. These things take time. A one bedroom that only cost 600 or 700 a month a few years ago now costs over a thousand a month.

Another aspect is financing. Banks/developers/investors look for comparable developments nearby when figuring out loan stuff, but in the past Detroit didn't have any. But after one project is successful, it's something that can be looked at, and then they say "that worked. we can do it too and it's safe to go a little bigger".

For both of these situations there's a sort of positive feedback loop. But each cycle of the loop takes time. Buildings take a few years from planning to construction. Rents are only raised once a year and will only be raised so much at a time.


But to say that this process isn't happening... You just have to not be paying very much attention to things. There's been a stream of new renovations at a faster pace than even just a few years ago. There are more small renovations than you can keep track of, and there's a handful of midrises which should start construction in not too long.

Just because there aren't dozens of 90 story skyscrapers being built doesn't mean that people aren't moving into downtown at a rapid pace. Demand has simply grown faster than what the market can accommodate, and the market is moving as fast as it can.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms. If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not.

That is categorically false. Perhaps a little research on your behalf is warranted before making statements like that.

[ABetterDetroit]

That is categorically false. Perhaps a little research on your behalf is warranted before making statements like that.

My rational friend, he is a hater, all he has ever been and all he ever will be.

[mwilbert]

Gilbert controls all of the supply through outright ownership or he buys up the rentals via his brokerage firms.

This is just wrong.

If demand was so hot there wouldn't be so many grants needed for projects and the development would be booming. It's not. This is what booming reads like:

"In the next 24 months, virtually every block in a one-mile stretch of 14th is slated to gain a new or renovated building containing residential units and ground-floor retail space. When the dust clears, the strip will have more than 1,200 additional housing units and more than 85,000 square feet of additional retail space."


http://nytimes.com/2012/05/02/reales...evelopers.html

I agree with you here. What Midtown and Downtown are doing is improving, not booming. Rents in DC are high enough to allow unsubsidized construction. Rents in Detroit have not been, and may not be now, so supply is constrained regardless of how much demand there may be at current prices. Hence no boom. When rents reach that point, which it looks like will happen fairly soon, then we will see whether there is sufficient demand at the required prices to have an actual boom. I tend to think not, but I do expect the population of greater downtown to grow faster than it has as higher prices make it possible to create more housing units.

Consider that if you doubled the population of the 7.2, that would basically mean that instead of having maybe 0.7% of the metro population, it would have 1.4% of the metro and maybe 9% of the city's population. That would be a dramatic change for that area, but it wouldn't be any kind of radical shift in the broader scheme of things. A moderate change in the perceived attractiveness of the center city could easily cause a shift that size, especially in conjunction with an apparent shift in preferences for more urban living. Will that actually happen? I don't know, too many unpredictable factors. But I think it is safe to say that so far the effect is small.

[DetroitPlanner]

I think, if trends continue, Midtown can be the basis of a competitive urban area befitting of a city of about 400,000 people. Most of the rest of Detroit is screwed, however. And I think that's also why some people are bitter. It's not always jealousy.

Bitter?? Who me? Nah I am not bitter that all of the schools I went to are closed. I am also not bitter that my neighborhood has been infested by dealers and addicts. I am not bitter that section 8 landlords bought up nearly every home that once housed a family I grew up with. I am not even bitter that I cannot walk or ride a bike to the corner store for fear of being robbed.

Nope, not me.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Bitter?? Who me? Nah I am not bitter that all of the schools I went to are closed. I am not even bitter that I cannot walk or ride a bike to the corner store for fear of being robbed.

Nope, not me.

You should be.

[sumas]

I can certainly empathize with DetroitPlanner I have lived in a Detroit where we never locked doors to a home where we have dogs and are alarmed and armed.

Just am not bitter, everything evolves. My elementary school was converted to a charter, my high school demolished but rebuilt, my undergrad college at WSU was eliminated for cost purposes but amusing is that they are trying to resurrect it years later.

The influx of kids is so refreshing. I have spent years of my time as a community activist. It is refreshing to see the influx of youth with vision and purpose to carry on. The energy is refreshing.

[sumas]

One odd comment though...as a community we are vigilant and improving. I support a woman's right to wear what she wants but there is also common sense .

A tall lean yuppie was jogging in daisy dukes and a strapless bikini top and I don't think that is too smart.

[nain rouge]

I can certainly empathize with DetroitPlanner I have lived in a Detroit where we never locked doors to a home where we have dogs and are alarmed and armed.

Just am not bitter, everything evolves.

Do you ever stop to ask yourself, "Why?" There are dozens of big, diverse urban cities you could move to in this country where you wouldn't need to go through with those precautions. Locking your door is one thing. Guard dogs and guns? Life shouldn't be that way.

[Dan Wesson]

I can certainly empathize with DetroitPlanner I have lived in a Detroit where we never locked doors "to" a home where we have dogs and are alarmed and armed.

Just am not bitter, everything evolves.

I was just thinking that if I follow your time line that instead of evolving it looks to be more of de-volving.

[sumas]

Detroit is certainly different now. What you fail to understand is amazing transformations. There is reality and future reality. Being that this is Detroit Yes, I would bank on a better future.

[sumas]

Do you ever stop to ask yourself, "Why?" There are dozens of big, diverse urban cities you could move to in this country where you wouldn't need to go through with those precautions. Locking your door is one thing. Guard dogs and guns? Life shouldn't be that way.
[/COLOR]

Of course you are right. Citizens work every day to restore a safe city. Never needed to use a gun and probably would not. I feel very safe. Great neighbors and vigilant neighbors make that possible. My neighborhood is awesome. We have had our strife but keep moving forward. My dogs are fantastic and well trained. You are right, life should not be that way.

But what makes you think Detroiters' do not want that life style again.

[Bham1982]

Who do you think is occupying all the rental units in downtown, including many that have opened up in the past 2 years? Occupancy is near 100%. Are these all poor black people paying the highest rents in the city? Your criticism doesn't pass the smell test either.

Rental vacancy rates nationwide are usually around 5%. In Detroit, they're much worse.

And, no the Freep artcles breathlessly claiming "near 100% downtown occupancy" are not accurate. If they were, that would be indicative of normalcy, not some strong demand for new housing.

[Bham1982]

If long-stalled projects like the Griswold, Statler property, Broderick, Whitney, Capital Park buildings, are moving forward now, I guess someone has the supporting data.

There were subsidies available in past years when little or nothing was getting done, so what's the difference now? It's something in addition to the availability of subsidies.

These projects have the necessary subsidies, not the underlying economic fundamentals.

And there was no time in Detroit's history where there were no projects happening downtown. If anything, there's less construction activity downtown now than 10 years ago [[with the casinos, Book Cadillac, Blue Cross, Ford Field, Cadillac Square, etc.).

[nain rouge]

But what makes you think Detroiters' do not want that life style again.

I spent the first 25 years of my life in Warren, and last year split between Detroit and Virginia. The thing I've realized is, Detroit is such a fight. And it's heartbreaking to see that in many other cities, what people are fighting so hard for in Detroit is just there for the taking, low hanging fruit plucked with almost no effort.

Detroit has - and I hate personifying cities, governments, and countries - a messianic complex. There's an element of magical thinking in people's opinions of the city. When in reality, it was just a city built like all the others in America, then dragged into a death spiral by a combination of prejudice and disinvestment. When I look upon Detroit, I see people scavenging among ruins for items, ideas, and feelings that they can reassemble into a self-confirming, illusory world of their own device.

What I don't see is a living, breathing city. What's an industrial giant without industry? A hollow shell that can only be animated again through the power of imagination. Old Detroit is gone. Long gone.

You know, in America, you're supposed to take safety for granted. America is littered with urban cities that, compared to Detroit, are thriving and safe to an unimaginable degree. So why Detroit? That's the question I ask. There are places you can live where the spirit of what Detroit once was still lives.

Sometimes cities die. If you look throughout history, few have survived. Even the Romans knew when it was time to quit the Forum and let it be.

I don't doubt that one day they'll have successfully built a great urban theme park upon the Detroit streets. But to me, it's not Detroit. What's left of that old city is but a few dying embers. The Motor City trampled the Paris of the Midwest. Now, disinvestment has trampled the Motor City.

It's a brave new world in Detroit.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Rental vacancy rates nationwide are usually around 5%. In Detroit, they're much worse.

And, no the Freep artcles breathlessly claiming "near 100% downtown occupancy" are not accurate. If they were, that would be indicative of normalcy, not some strong demand for new housing.

Midtown Detroit publishes an every-so-often survey of mid- and downtown apartment rental vacancy. As of their last report, occupancy was 97.1%. That is consistent with anecdotal evidence I have heard from practitioners [[landlords, bankers, etc.) as well.

[motz]

Midtown Detroit publishes an every-so-often survey of mid- and downtown apartment rental vacancy. As of their last report, occupancy was 97.1%. That is consistent with anecdotal evidence I have heard from practitioners [[landlords, bankers, etc.) as well.

But because that report supports something Bham1982 doesn't believe in, it's just propaganda about the fictitious revival of Detroit. You have to understand, there are people that do not want to believe that things are different now than they were even 2-3 years ago. I can tell you that finding a place in the Midtown area means being willing to sign a lease and move in with sometimes a days notice. If you don't take that place right there, you might be SOL for a few weeks to months. But that doesn't matter because Bham1982 reasons.