How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

[313WX]

Thousands of unreported Detroit residents are college-educated people committing misdemeanors and felonies to live in Detroit, while also running the risk of being denied insurance claims on their biggest assets [[housing, car), and refuse to fill out census data. Got it.

No, you still don't get it.

And given that you're still being either intentionally difficult or legitimately clueless right now despite all of the information placed before you, you'll never get it.

[e.p.3]

So you're a developer and want financing for a building. You tell the finance guys the rental rate in this area is $X.XX/sq ft with an occupancy rate of XX%. The cost of building this project is expected to be $XXX,XXX, with XX units ranging from XXX-X,XXX sq ft, etc etc. You have pages and pages of documentation to support this having spent X amount of money in planning and preparation. Are you really that naive?

Or are you upset that none of the posters on this forum are developers in the area which have spent their time and money to prepare this for you?

Project viability is determined by DATA. Who the heck lives there, what are the trends showing, what do they make, etc. You guys can't come up with anything.

[dtowncitylover]

Project viability is determined by DATA. Who the heck lives there, what are the trends showing, what do they make, etc. You guys can't come up with anything.

We don't have to come up with shit for you. There's valid places to see data and an internet forum is not one of them. But the data you're trying to find is not going to support your views so you're taking it out on us...how pathetic.

[jhnbonham]

Project viability is determined by DATA. Who the heck lives there, what are the trends showing, what do they make, etc. You guys can't come up with anything.

So you are saying I was correct, you are "upset that none of the posters on this forum... have spent their time and money to prepare this for you".

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Project viability is determined by DATA. Who the heck lives there, what are the trends showing, what do they make, etc. You guys can't come up with anything.

"Project viability is determined by DATA." Aren't there as many, if not more, projects being undertaken currently or in recent years than was the case 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

If long-stalled projects like the Griswold, Statler property, Broderick, Whitney, Capital Park buildings, are moving forward now, I guess someone has the supporting data.

There were subsidies available in past years when little or nothing was getting done, so what's the difference now? It's something in addition to the availability of subsidies.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Furthermore, do these people actually stay put, or are they bolting after a year or two? Anecdotal, but a few kids from my church tried the city and left after a frustrating 12 months. So, how many people are actually moving to these prime neighborhoods?

Are there any men or women in your church that tried the city or are they all "kids", that may explain the spinning wheel in this thread.

[Novine]

"I see a lot of people reference this Midtown/downtown/corktown uptick, but the census data doesn't show any uptick in Detroit. "

The original premise has already been debunked. Go look at the Census numbers and see the tracts where the 2010 Census showed population growth. Then get your lazy self over to the Census web site and drill down into the numbers. They don't have a category for "yuppies" but you can get income and age breakdowns for these areas. Then come back here and report what you've found, if that's not too difficult for you to handle.

[Lowell]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

[jhnbonham]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who they embarrass and can't wait to get away from them.

And want to delude themselves into thinking their McMansion suburban lifestyle is something enjoyable, all the while getting lost driving home in their own neighborhood of identical houses!

[maverick1]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

I'm still amazed by this. The hate some people have for Detroit is ridiculous. You would think they would be happy to see the core come back because they benefit from it. If heart of Detroit comes back the whole view of the region worldwide changes. They crap on M1 rail, new restaurants, new businesses, etc. in Detroit. What are they insecure about? A thriving Detroit takes nothing from the suburbs. Suburbs cater to a certain individual just like cities do. I go out of town and people literally don't know or are surprised that Detroit has suburbs. A suburb will never be the face of a metropolis. We've been trying this for 50+ years and have failed miserably.

[Detroit Stylin]

I'm still amazed by this. The hate some people have for Detroit is ridiculous. You would think they would be happy to see the core come back because they benefit from it. If heart of Detroit comes back the whole view of the region worldwide changes. They crap on M1 rail, new restaurants, new businesses, etc. in Detroit. What are they insecure about? A thriving Detroit takes nothing from the suburbs. Suburbs cater to a certain individual just like cities do. I go out of town and people literally don't know or are surprised that Detroit has suburbs. A suburb will never be the face of a metropolis. We've been trying this for 50+ years and have failed miserably.

Its not Detroit they hate......it's "Detroit" they hate....

[Dan Wesson]

• How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

Not enough to really matter.

They are going to have to pack up the babies and grab the old lady and everyone goes to make a difference. Grandmama, Grandpapa, Aunts, Uncles, the neighbor Lady too. They can leave the dog, The city got enough of them running loose.

[ABetterDetroit]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

Haters on Internet forums are interesting, even tho irritating at times. I would be fascinated to read a study that had real hard info on their psychological makeup. The most hard core haters are obviously not normal in that department. Has it ever been discussed before here that one of the worst on this board has many aliases and constantly stirs the same pots in exactly the same ways over and over and over? A strange existence for a human being.

[nain rouge]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

I had a unique opportunity earlier in the year where I got to live in Midtown for 4 months before leaving the state [[long story). Short of it is, while Greater Downtown is definitely the most intriguing and urban area to live in Metro Detroit, it still didn't feel like a true, functioning big city. For one, the lower part of Midtown/Cass Corridor earns the Zombieland tag on that old Park Avenue apartment building. Infill is lacking, and there are still way too many abandoned buildings. Economic activity is largely service oriented outside of Quicken Loans. Watching the continuing decline of Mexicantown was dispiriting and alarming.

I think some of us want to keep things in perspective, so people don't start patting themselves on the back too soon. Detroit has A LOT of hard work ahead of it. The total remaining urban area is very small for a metro of 4 million people. It's not always easy to see that as a local, but its obvious to outsiders. That's why, rather than be wowed by Corktown or whatever, Anthony Bourdain was more or less shocked by the immediate devastation.

[maverick1]

I had a unique opportunity earlier in the year where I got to live in Midtown for 4 months before leaving the state [[long story). Short of it is, while Greater Downtown is definitely the most intriguing and urban area to live in Metro Detroit, it still didn't feel like a true, functioning big city. For one, the lower part of Midtown/Cass Corridor earns the Zombieland tag on that old Park Avenue apartment building. Infill is lacking, and there are still way too many abandoned buildings. Economic activity is largely service oriented outside of Quicken Loans. Watching the continuing decline of Mexicantown was dispiriting and alarming.

I think some of us want to keep things in perspective, so people don't start patting themselves on the back too soon. Detroit has A LOT of hard work ahead of it. The total remaining urban area is very small for a metro of 4 million people. It's not always easy to see that as a local, but its obvious to outsiders. That's why, rather than be wowed by Corktown or whatever, Anthony Bourdain was more or less shocked by the immediate devastation.

There's a difference between putting things in perspective and outright crapping on what's happening. I'm a realist. Midtown and Downtown has a looooooong way to go before it's world class but you can't poo-poo the small changes that have happened recently. 60 years of disinvestment can't be reversed in 4 years. There is something that isn't genuine when people crap on every thing. Detroit overall sucks when compared to the top 10 cities in the US but there have been improvements.

[sumas]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

Certainly can agree with above comments. Not afraid to say racism is an issue which is a two way sword. We do take hits being white and still Detroit. I get over it. So many young folk moving in and do get a bit hurt they want no advice but that is just youth thinking they have all the answers. The energy they bring makes up for any slight I may feel. Our new community garden demonstrates their energy and integrity. I am pleased to see a new vibrancy.

[mwilbert]

There isn't any reliable population data gathered in Detroit intra-census, and even less so when you are talking about subdivisions of the city and demographic subsets of the overall population. For instance, I just looked to see what might be available post-2010 from the ACS. Aside the fact the the currently released ACS data isn't recent enough to really be useful, I also found that at the level of a census tract, which is what you would need to look at to understand changes downtown, things like the number of people with a particular level of educational attainment in a census tract tend to have statistical errors comparable to or bigger than the value itself, which makes the data pretty much useless for purposes of looking at changes in subgroup population between two periods.

However, the argument that many people are making in this thread is completely valid. There isn't any way that rents in greater downtown could be rising the way they are in the face of increased housing supply without there being some influx of people who can pay those rents. Conceivably [[but not at all probably) those people could not be residents at all, but people renting apartments while attending school or businesses renting apartments for use by employees visiting from elsewhere or suburbanites who want a pied-a-terre. We don't know. If we assume they are actual residents, we still don't know if they are yuppies or some other kind of people who can afford the rent.

So the answer to the original question is no, because the data doesn't exist. We know something is happening, but it can only be quantified very inexactly. We will know a lot more after the data from the 2020 Census is collected and released, because then a serious attempt will be made to figure out exactly who is living where. Also, over a longer period of time, whatever trends are in place will have longer to operate, so the effect of whatever migration there is should be easier to spot. Until then, it is pretty much guesswork.

[old guy]

I talked to a guy in Toledo and he said somewhere between 56 and 61. I'm somewhat skeptical but he's reasonably up on these things. I trust him because his handle is e.p.1.

[DetroitPlanner]

Since yuppies are known for boat shoes, I am fairly certain that the Somalian Pirates keep them away from Detroit. Alex P Keaton is afraid of Somalians. Tom and Margo are too.

[renf]

I have listed below the counts of Detroit residents age 25 to 34 with four year college degrees
from the 1990 and 2000 censuses and from the American Community Surveys since 2005. These data have moderately large standard errors but they hardly suggest a substantial movement of young highly educated people to Detroit, at least through 2012.

Year Residents of Detroit 25 to 34 with 4 year degree
1990 16,400
2000 16,600
2005 12,100
2006 11,300
2007 11,200
2008 10,700
2009 13,800
2010 10,500
2011 10,500
2012 11,200

[mwilbert]

I have listed below the counts of Detroit residents age 25 to 34 with four year college degrees
from the 1990 and 2000 censuses and from the American Community Surveys since 2005. These data have moderately large standard errors but they hardly suggest a substantial movement of young highly educated people to Detroit, at least through 2012.

Year Residents of Detroit 25 to 34 with 4 year degree
1990 16,400
2000 16,600
2005 12,100
2006 11,300
2007 11,200
2008 10,700
2009 13,800
2010 10,500
2011 10,500
2012 11,200

Just from looking at the 2009 number you know the errors here have to be huge. Recall that the total population of greater downtown [[the 7.2) was only about 30K in 2010. You just aren't going to be able to see any plausible number of net in-migrants in these numbers--you'd have to have had more than several thousand, and there isn't any place for that many more people to live, yet. Which is the main reason the rents are rising.

If you think there might be lots of yuppies moving into other neighborhoods, then depending on whether we think the data is reasonably accurate, maybe this contradicts that, but I don't think either of those things.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I had a unique opportunity earlier in the year where I got to live in Midtown for 4 months before leaving the state [[long story). Short of it is, while Greater Downtown is definitely the most intriguing and urban area to live in Metro Detroit, it still didn't feel like a true, functioning big city. For one, the lower part of Midtown/Cass Corridor earns the Zombieland tag on that old Park Avenue apartment building. Infill is lacking, and there are still way too many abandoned buildings. Economic activity is largely service oriented outside of Quicken Loans. Watching the continuing decline of Mexicantown was dispiriting and alarming.

I think some of us want to keep things in perspective, so people don't start patting themselves on the back too soon. Detroit has A LOT of hard work ahead of it. The total remaining urban area is very small for a metro of 4 million people. It's not always easy to see that as a local, but its obvious to outsiders. That's why, rather than be wowed by Corktown or whatever, Anthony Bourdain was more or less shocked by the immediate devastation.

Those are some very good points. There's little debate about Downtown and Midtown being on the road to recovery, with numerous renovations of long abandoned buildings and some degree of new construction. But whenever I look up some address on Google and see an aerial map, I'm struck by the astounding amount of vacant land in "booming" Midtown. It really brings home how deep the hole is into which the city has sunk.

[rooms222]

Those are some very good points. There's little debate about Downtown and Midtown being on the road to recovery, with numerous renovations of long abandoned buildings and some degree of new construction. But whenever I look up some address on Google and see an aerial map, I'm struck by the astounding amount of vacant land in "booming" Midtown. It really brings home how deep the hole is into which the city has sunk.

Also, remember in 1990, the redevelopment/gentrification efforts of GM were peaking in the New Center area. There were many degree holding 25-34 year olds living in the New Center. It was a more African-American mixture than those downtown or in midtown today, but there were probably close to a thousand college educated young adults in that area at the time. Sadly, some of the largest buildings are now abandoned [[like on Seward and Woodward), and the tenant mix is not as affluent or well-educated.

[e.p.3]

Census data doesn't show an uptick for the city as a whole, but I do believe it shows an uptick for the downtown and midtown neighborhoods.

Did your church kids go to Wayne State then decide to commute? Or did they think they were city people and then leave. Not everyone is cut out for city living, and I mean that in the broadest sense. If you couldn't survive in this city then you might not be able to survive in Chicago or Brooklyn.

Most moved to other cities, out of state. A pair moved to Royal Oak.

[e.p.3]

Those are some very good points. There's little debate about Downtown and Midtown being on the road to recovery, with numerous renovations of long abandoned buildings and some degree of new construction. But whenever I look up some address on Google and see an aerial map, I'm struck by the astounding amount of vacant land in "booming" Midtown. It really brings home how deep the hole is into which the city has sunk.

This is a major issue with Detroit. Many people have grown numb to their surroundings and I think often lack the exposure to what a world class city actually looks and feels like. With concentrated poverty and lack of education, I understand it's tough to find the resources or opportunity to travel.