How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

[e.p.3]

Is there an independent [[read: not the Gilbert Press, Gilbert News, or Crain's Gilbert Business) source that proves there has been this deluge of yuppies living in Detroit? I see a lot of people reference this Midtown/downtown/corktown uptick, but the census data doesn't show any uptick in Detroit. Furthermore, do these people actually stay put, or are they bolting after a year or two? Anecdotal, but a few kids from my church tried the city and left after a frustrating 12 months. So, how many people are actually moving to these prime neighborhoods?

[nain rouge]

Truth is - yes - yuppies have been moving into the heart of Detroit, but working class people have been moving out about an equal pace. That's because most new employers in the area only really benefit white collar employees, or hipsters that are helped out by their parents in one way or another and just "need a job". Obviously, NPR, NYT, and CNN find the yuppie's businesses way more interesting than another working class establishment, and hence the increased visibility.

[dtowncitylover]

Census data doesn't show an uptick for the city as a whole, but I do believe it shows an uptick for the downtown and midtown neighborhoods.

Did your church kids go to Wayne State then decide to commute? Or did they think they were city people and then leave. Not everyone is cut out for city living, and I mean that in the broadest sense. If you couldn't survive in this city then you might not be able to survive in Chicago or Brooklyn.

[artds]

Can we get a definition of "yuppie" before proceeding with this thread?

[Mackinaw]

Look, you're not going to get anyone official to tell you how many yuppies are moving in [[at least until the census, when you can look at demographic and educational-background breakdowns), but there should be a source on population inflow to the central city, including downtown, midtown, Lafayette Pk/E.Market, and Corktown. While the inflow is not as monolithic in demographic as some believe, it is generally young, and these numbers will answer your question.

What we're starting to see, and it's really good news, is some other neighborhoods further from the central city gain new residents, like West Village.

My anecdotes are reporting better things than yours.

But people will come and then go because city living might not be for them. There is a noticeable flow of young, often privileged state-school-educated metro Detroit youth to Chicago or DC-- but only certain, safe parts of Chicago or DC, where they live in fear of and with considerable prejudice toward other areas where yuppies haven't touched. You can't really have that sheltered existence anywhere in Detroit. Detroit is still for the tough and/or open-minded, and particularly for those who gain street smarts quickly. I am honestly okay with that, as the Chicago and D.C. model still promotes too much prejudice, segregation, and sheltering. If people move to Detroit trying to really dig in and be Detroiters, not just people existing in a place for the sake of trendiness, I think we'll be much better off. And we'll be even better off if, as Nain alludes to, we bring the outer-neighborhood outflow down to a more normal trickle.

[313WX]

Many call themselves "living" downtown, but still claim their residence at mommy and daddy's house in the suburbs to avoid city taxes and the high car insurance rates.

This still hurts Detroit as far as political representation and federal funding is concerned.

BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people.

[nain rouge]

Honestly, this report, 7.2 Square Miles, tells you all you need to know about Greater Downtown's demographics: http://detroitsevenpointtwo.com/reso...fullreport.pdf . Greater Downtown lost about 5,000 people, but gained diversity.

[nain rouge]

On a related topic, here's a FUN chart: http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/.../7ba2090f9.png

[dtowncitylover]

BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people.

And I would guess that would still be too early to tell about the growth of the city center. Quicken Loans didn't move downtown until August 2010 and alot of projects open today were still on going or not yet realized, like the Auburn or Broderick Tower.

[motz]

Many call themselves "living" downtown, but still claim their residence at mommy and daddy's house in the suburbs to avoid city taxes and the high car insurance rates.

This still hurts Detroit as far as political representation and federal funding is concerned.

BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people.

Yep, that's basically it. Some of people would like to live in the City, but can't afford the absurdly high premiums there. Keep an address in the suburbs [[yeah, it's always mommy and daddy's, cute 313) but it's mainly because insurance is absolutely outrageous for neighborhoods that are pretty universally accepted as "safer than some suburbs".

[nain rouge]

I looked up 48201 - which covers most of what we'd call Midtown - in the Census Bureau fact finder, and there was a drop of about 1,000 people from the 2010 population to the 2012 population as estimated by the government's American Community Survey. 48202, which covers the northern tip of Midtown, New Center, and Boston-Edison held steady from 2010-2012. Downtown, 48226, also held steady. [[Technically, both 48202 and 48226 lost population in the 2012 estimate, but we're talking inconsequentially small numbers.)

[Danny]

I looked up 48201 - which covers most of what we'd call Midtown - in the Census Bureau fact finder, and there was a drop of about 1,000 people from the 2010 population to the 2012 population as estimated by the government's American Community Survey. 48202, which covers the northern tip of Midtown, New Center, and Boston-Edison held steady from 2010-2012. Downtown, 48226, also held steady. [[Technically, both 48202 and 48226 lost population in the 2012 estimate, but we're talking inconsequentially small numbers.)

According the 2010 NY Times census block tract. The area around I-94 FWY to W. Forest St. and west of Woodward Ave and East of Lodge FWY. has 41% of whites. up from 30% since 2000. That's in the Wayne State University Campus [[ where I used to live.) Now it's about 44% of whites. The west side of Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit west of Woodward Ave. to I-75 FWY from the Detroit River and east of Lodge FWY has 35% of whites. Thanks to sudden regional explosion from Dan Gilbert and his business ventures, Downtown [[ Gilberttown) Detroit has about 40% of whites By 2020, 55% of whites [[yuppies) will occupy half of Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit. Right now Detroit's white population now stands at 13% up from 11% from 2010. This is a good sign. But middle class white families are not yet ready to occupy its ghetto hoods until the riff-raffs leave. Young professionals [[ especially white people) are moving in fancier apts, super lofts and mega condos from Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit to Midtown areas. One by one they will move in set up shop, work, grab their mocha and cappuccino and head to school or work. After they get married and have the second baby, they will move out of the city and into the suburbs far, far away. Then the cycle will continue all over again.

[Novine]

"BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people."

Not true. If you look at the NY Times Census tool for downtown and midtown tracts, you see a number of tracts that saw significant percentage increases in population. You also saw some tracts lose significant population percentage-wise. It's a mixed bag but the numbers don't back up a claim of a significant population loss in those areas.

[313WX]

"BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people."

Not true. If you look at the NY Times Census tool for downtown and midtown tracts, you see a number of tracts that saw significant percentage increases in population. You also saw some tracts lose significant population percentage-wise. It's a mixed bag but the numbers don't back up a claim of a significant population loss in those areas.

As a whole, it was a net population loss.

[animatedmartian]

As a whole, it was a net population loss.

But it wasn't yuppie lost. Don't forget that the Brewster Projects were closed in 2008. That could have been 1,000 people by itself.

However, lets assume all those 1000 BP residents made less than $10,000 a year, you'd only need 250 yuppies making $40,000 a year to make up the loss in resident incomes. So while the population numeric seem negative, economically it all probably cancels out which is usually the case in gentrification.

[Hypestyles]

Detroit needs more "home grown" yuppies- urban Detroit raised, college educated [[wherever that is), and feeling energized/compelled to make a go of things in the core city.

[corktownyuppie]

Detroit needs more "home grown" yuppies- urban Detroit raised, college educated [[wherever that is), and feeling energized/compelled to make a go of things in the core city.

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

[gvidas]

Can we get a definition of "yuppie" before proceeding with this thread?

Wikipedia pegs it as "short for "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional." In this context 'professional' is a term of art that I take as 'on track to a white collar job.'

So we're basically talking about young people, probably with a college degree, working in office jobs or otherwise starting a career.

Coming at it from the other direction, I don't think that I'd lump into this category anyone who is self-employed or working in art, the service industry, manufacturing [[ha), construction, or a dead-end corner of an office.

[313WX]

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

Mackinaw made a good point above about the bolded:

If people move to Detroit trying to really dig in and be Detroiters, not just people existing in a place for the sake of trendiness, I think we'll be much better off.

For example, there was some event recently in which people who are a part of the demographic discussed in this thread described Detroit as a blank canvas. And while I'm sure they had no malicious intent, it does highlight the strong disconnect many Yuppie newcomers have from long time Detroit residents.

While not referring to you specifically, there are some in your demographic [[and even on this forum) who act as if there isn't more to Detroit beyond downtown/midtown, and that flakiness rightfully rubs many Detroiters who've had to survive these rough conditions for decades the wrong way.

So what I'm trying to basically say is give it time. Considering how much despair Detroiters have faced throughout the years, anyone who claims they come in to help or become a part of the city with good intentions will automatically get the side eye until they walk the walk.

[sumas]

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

Welcome back and yes I agree Detroit is sometimes non embracive. My two sons are back, one now a homeowner in EEV and one in Midtown. We have 3 "communes" in our near downtown area and most are charming. Some stay, some leave after a year or so. All contribute to community while here. No issues with me.

You are right to claim living in Detroit can be complicated. It is not for everyone. I can brag or bitch on any given day about life in my hood.

Still, I love my home, my neighbors and Detroit.

[Lowell]

Furthermore, do these people actually stay put, or are they bolting after a year or two?

This will be the case anywhere. I recall reading somewhere in the past that up to a third of the immigrants to America returned to their home countries.

A lot of yuppies [surprised that now aged term is still used] will not have stable jobs, being new and inexperienced to the job market, and will move on to other cities or back home.

The rental occupancy in the 7.2 [97% I heard], the rising rates and appearance of significant new construction and renovation paint a clearer picture. Anecdotally for old-timers like me, the visible activity and pedestrian traffic is day-and-night different than even 10 years ago.

Things are clearly on the upswing, perceptions of public safety are increasing and, let's just face it, the area has all the excitement, culture and 'coolness' that the that those barren confederations of subdivisions and strip malls called suburbs lack.

[DetroitPlanner]

Can we get a definition of "yuppie" before proceeding with this thread?

Good point. Yuppie was a term used in the mid 1980's. That demographic is at youngest mid-40's to 60 years of age by now and are characterized by very high wealth, an affinity for boat shoes and cardigan sweaters with alligators on them.

Perhaps the poster means Hipster?

[jhnbonham]

Having lived in Midtown since 2005, I can attest how obvious the difference in population is now compared to 2005. Even compared to 2010, the difference is blatant.

However most renters I believe have not officially changed their address. I do not know statistics on this, or have any real numbers to back this up, but from what I have seen it seems this is true. I have met many people who live in the area but their driver's license still says a suburb or even a different state.

One would have to assume this is an issue common to areas high in younger renters, people who may be referred to as young-urban-professionals. Though these cities may be better equipped to handle this in accounting their populations; cities such as Chicago, a popular place for young Michiganders to relocate to.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Not Yuppies but rather Mid-town Hipster's, so your talking about a 25-35ish demographic who finally moved out of Mom and Dads house to go have a social adventure in Mid-town or take your communion money and open up a boutique store after all those years of living rent free with the rents [[mom & dad). I don't think many of these folks stay longer 3-5 years, once baby makes three or the social adventure of loft living loses it hipness its back to 27 mile road or its equivalent. I think these folks serve a good purpose in adding new plasma to the area potentially helping the spread of healthy growth beyond mid-towns environs. If you want real sustained growth you need people raising families to stay in one place for a generation although I think that type of existence just may be in the history books, but theres always hope.

[e.p.3]

1. A yuppy is a young, urban profession. You know, 22 to 40 [[?), college degree, real job.

2. Nobody has provided one piece of evidence to prove there is an influx of yuppy residents to these neighborhoods. The drivers license has nothing to do with census or independent data. Furthermore, it's a misdemeanor to not change your address. I've never been in a business meeting where I closed the deal without real data. Anecdotal optics and excuses [[e.g. drivers licenses aren't changed??!) don't pass the smell test.