U.S. Rep. John Conyers calls Detroit water shutoffs inhumane

[Smirnoff]

Plenty of merchants have water for sale if DWSD is not a preferred vendor.....

[cjd]

Is any of this even real or is this just internet message board postulating?

Can someone give me a REAL example [[not a friend of a cousin, or something you read about one time) of someone that really can't pay their water? I want to know what types of government/charitable assistance they are getting and what's eating that up before they pay the water bill.

If you tell me there are people that really can't make any headway on their water with a sincere effort and no nonsense in their budget then its a problem and I am feeling some pain. If this is just about everyone using a much hyped press release to vent their feeling about whether there's too much welfare or corporate greed... well then, I can go back to my cheetos and beer and really enjoy the snarky comments.

[Vic01]

... How about those who can't pay are offered a choice: spend 20 hours a week working to clean and improve city parks with the equivalent of minimum wage deducted from what you owe, or have your water shut off? That is a serious proposal. Please explain how you feel that would be unfair.

Some of us would agree that it's 100% fair [[research the CCC camps and other work projects of that era), but for every one of us there's many more saying that "forcing" someone to actually work for whatever benefits [[water, food, housing, etc, etc) they receive from society violates their "rights"...

[Jimaz]

Can a private citizen legally drill a water well within Detroit's city limits?

Sincerely.

[Goose]

there's many more saying that "forcing" someone to actually work for whatever benefits [[water, food, housing, etc, etc) they receive from society violates their "rights"...

isn't that what socialized welfare is? working people are forced to hand over the fruits of their labor to be given as "benefits" to others.... what happens when the workers say enough is enough and too many of them stop working and decide they want "benefits"?? who pays then?

[sumas]

Not trying to sound mean or insensitive but if you can't afford running water you probably shouldn't have children.

Get real, neither sister even share the same father. not THE KIDS FAULT. This was a living arrangement with a boyfriend. Baby Mama is trying to get her life together. Say prayers or good wishes that they get on with a better life.

[motz]

Is any of this even real or is this just internet message board postulating?

Can someone give me a REAL example [[not a friend of a cousin, or something you read about one time) of someone that really can't pay their water? I want to know what types of government/charitable assistance they are getting and what's eating that up before they pay the water bill.

If you tell me there are people that really can't make any headway on their water with a sincere effort and no nonsense in their budget then its a problem and I am feeling some pain. If this is just about everyone using a much hyped press release to vent their feeling about whether there's too much welfare or corporate greed... well then, I can go back to my cheetos and beer and really enjoy the snarky comments.

It's a coalition of Michigan activist groups led by a Canandian-based water rights advocacy group. I don't disagree with the "Yo, people need water theme", but I disagree with their math, their document that was published, hell, with a lot of the stuff used to draw up that request. There are at least two or three parts of that report that cite some pretty "serious" numbers, but don't have sources. And one them that is sourced, just says "Document provided by DWSD". Cool, I can fact check a document that you won't provide because magic.

[Honky Tonk]

Get real, neither sister even share the same father. not THE KIDS FAULT. This was a living arrangement with a boyfriend. Baby Mama is trying to get her life together. Say prayers or good wishes that they get on with a better life.

Honestly, It's not my fault either. Just how much of the world's problems am I supposed to take on or be responsible for? I have a hard enough time keeping my own self afloat. I'm not living a luxurious life by any means. The cost of living goes up for me daily, and my wages sure don't reflect the increase.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

+ 1,000 I understand everybody is culpable in this, even the working stiffs. But when major players are skinflinting the system for thousands of dollars, what message does that send?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...troit#comments

No water, but obviously a lot of food....

[SWMAP]

The "Big Players" are billed at commercial rates and may have prophylactically
installed very good meters of their own, that do not agree with DWSD readings and other billing impacts that DWSD considers for institutional customers.

I know certainly of one such instance in the major players list, and I would imagine that there are others.

Institutional users will pay undisputed parts of the bill and move the disputed amounts to the negotiating table. We may be seeing the disputed amounts.

You, too, can dispute your bill - but if you never got permission to install your own meter [[and I think you need permission), you have nothing on your side to dispute the meter reading. I know. I thought I had dispute - but, no. DWSD showed me indisputable proof that I had an unseen leak that I needed to address.

So, the "Big Players" complaint is a big distraction, in my opinion.

[Wesley Mouch]

The "Big Players" are billed at commercial rates and may have prophylactically
installed very good meters of their own, that do not agree with DWSD readings and other billing impacts that DWSD considers for institutional customers.

I know certainly of one such instance in the major players list, and I would imagine that there are others.

Institutional users will pay undisputed parts of the bill and move the disputed amounts to the negotiating table. We may be seeing the disputed amounts.

You, too, can dispute your bill - but if you never got permission to install your own meter [[and I think you need permission), you have nothing on your side to dispute the meter reading. I know. I thought I had dispute - but, no. DWSD showed me indisputable proof that I had an unseen leak that I needed to address.

So, the "Big Players" complaint is a big distraction, in my opinion.

I worked for a big-player once, when a dirt-covered guy from DWSD showed up with a 'shutoff wrench' a check was issued in moments.

This 'big player' issue is truly a distraction. A justification for letting little folks off the hook. Do like Europe or Asia. Put a water dispenser in public squares, and let anyone fill whatever bucket they can bring. Problem solved.

Nobody here is lacking basic water. Go get it from a hose bib on some office building. You can get enough to drink anywhere.

Now you want a warm bath, too? Pay.

[sumas]

Sadly I have neighbors tapping my hose. I thought baby mama moved with kids and she did briefly well she is back with only one kid now. I presume they still don't have water and sent the kid to fetch some in the night. Sadly they forgot to turn off the hose so God only knows what my current bill will look like. I do not begrudge water, I know they are in dire circumstances.

Easy solve, I just turn off my easy access hose off in my basement. Pain in the butt but whatever. Poverty sucks and kids get sucked in. The one kid came over today to beg 75 cents. I know the area kids and some of their situations. That 75 cents was for a loosey for mom. Looseys are single sold cigarettes. If they want candy they would ask for a buck. I have compassion for kids but not bad parenting. Should I tell the kids to go to Hart Plaza and take a cold shower?

[Wesley Mouch]

Sadly I have neighbors tapping my hose. I thought baby mama moved with kids and she did briefly well she is back with only one kid now. I presume they still don't have water and sent the kid to fetch some in the night. Sadly they forgot to turn off the hose so God only knows what my current bill will look like. I do not begrudge water, I know they are in dire circumstances.

Easy solve, I just turn off my easy access hose off in my basement. Pain in the butt but whatever. Poverty sucks and kids get sucked in. The one kid came over today to beg 75 cents. I know the area kids and some of their situations. That 75 cents was for a loosey for mom. Looseys are single sold cigarettes. If they want candy they would ask for a buck. I have compassion for kids but not bad parenting. Should I tell the kids to go to Hart Plaza and take a cold shower?

Well, yes -- to a certain degree. I think you both need to set boundaries with the kids... they can shower in your yard, on your terms... and at the same time work towards a city that can afford recreation centers with public showers.

I'm curious what you're take on this is. Do you just let them take the water? Do do you set limits? What's the best policy for you, and in your opinion for society? Is Convers right? Do the neighbors have a civil right to your water?

As someone living in the thick of it [[as I have in my past), I'm curious to know your opinions.

[rex]

If you cant afford water you cant afford kids. If you cant afford kids you shouldn't have kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

If you cant afford water you cant afford kids. If you cant afford kids you shouldn't have kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqjZ0KZCa0

So many heterosexuals just breed indiscriminately.

[rex]

crazy the shit you put up with sumas.
Neighbors are stealing your water, Sending their kids over to beg and lie so they can have a cigarette.

[Jimaz]

So many heterosexuals just breed indiscriminately.

That's the hardest I've laughed all week. Thanks!

[stasu1213]

I do agree with Congressman Conyers. Shutting off water to thousands of Detroit residents is a human rights violation. Will the Joe Louis Arena have it's water shut off being that the payments to it's water bill is behind. The same goes to other companies that are behind in their water bill payments that are owed to the Detroit Water Dept. I guess the paintings that are in the basement of the DIA and not seen are more valuable than people's livelihoods. I also believe that there are penalties when one parent have multiple children out of wedlock and the fathers are not there to give financial support. But not all of those who will be having their water shut off fit this condition. Many had been unemployed for months to years and were unable to pay their water bills fully especially with the hike in the bills by DTE

[sumas]

Well, yes -- to a certain degree. I think you both need to set boundaries with the kids... they can shower in your yard, on your terms... and at the same time work towards a city that can afford recreation centers with public showers.

I'm curious what you're take on this is. Do you just let them take the water? Do do you set limits? What's the best policy for you, and in your opinion for society? Is Convers right? Do the neighbors have a civil right to your water?

As someone living in the thick of it [[as I have in my past), I'm curious to know your opinions.

Funny you say boundaries, we do have a strong community group and many area women have said set boundaries and I have. The theft of water matter, I would have never known except for it did not get shut off. Now that was rude and possibly intentional?

So many of us work with these kids and it can be discouraging. The politics of poverty are hard to address. We do what we can.

[Danny]

Good for John Conyers for stick up for poor meek Detroiters who can't pay their three month water bills. He is truly the politician for everyone in Detroit. If he was young, he would make great mayor of Detroit beating Coleman Young before he get's his second term in the mid 1970s.

[Zacha341]

Yes, sadly some of their children left them this legacy. I know it is hard to pay bills, yet I feel economics aside that there was a culture of simply NOT paying the water bill.

After all nothing happened when you didn't, things continued as they always had: toilets flushed, sinks still worked. Then look up and it's over a grand or two or twenty grand [[as with some of these business and other entities). Standard "kick the can down the road" thinking and now the collective bill must be paid!

Same thinking in the white house, ala federal spending and waste--kick 'that' can! And they are suppose to bail use out....? Laughable.

Let the old people dehydrate! [/COLOR]

[Zacha341]

I'm afraid his old style "bring home the bacon" rhetoric is going to be just that. We are not high on the list of special interests. Duh. Even mainstream news shows that the government has other interest groups to favor and palor for future agendas. Not broke folks in the D. I think what's going to be more hurtful to some is that this cold shoulder will not be coming from the usual folk: the repubs.

Coneys cannot even get his people to have the right folks to gather signatures for this own run.

Good for John Conyers for stick up for poor meek Detroiters who can't pay their three month water bills. He is truly the politician for everyone in Detroit. If he was young, he would make great mayor of Detroit beating Coleman Young before he get's his second term in the mid 1970s.

[Zacha341]

You're not suppose to think it thru to that outcome. You're just suppose to simply feel good about giving, whatever the situation without judgement. You sound like a republican [[smile)...

To answer your question: The almighty government, but they'll need more money or the services and benefits will be much reduced.

isn't that what socialized welfare is? working people are forced to hand over the fruits of their labor to be given as "benefits" to others.... what happens when the workers say enough is enough and too many of them stop working and decide they want "benefits"?? who pays then?

[Zacha341]

Yes, and we'll see which entitlement group gets the kick in the butt!

There's plenty of entitlement everywhere. This is America, Jack. Entitlement is where you look for it, from Wall Street to Washington, D.C., to the subsidized lawns and highways of Oakland County. We only shame it when the poor benefit from it.