Macomb Township, the Golden Age of Sprawl.

**Danny** · June-25-14, 06:36 AM

In the last 20 years, Macomb TWP. went to peaceful farmland beyond 20 Mile Rd. to a Levittown-esque sprawl. What makes Macomb TWP. the next boomtown suburb? It's neighborhood are not a full line of ticky tacky little boxes, but a full line of McMansions. Any thoughts.

Give it about 50 years and we will see sprawl up to 40 Mile Rd. gobbling up forests and farmland.

**mikeg19** · June-25-14, 08:08 AM

I lived in Shelby Twp [[25 & Shelby Rd) as a kid until my mid twenties [[88'-10'). When my family moved there from East Detroit, we lived next to wetlands, a horse farm, and our subdivision backed up to Stoney Creek. During the day, I remember people riding horses down 24 mile road without a problem; pop up fruit and veggie stands on corners; hell, half of the roads were dirt. Hall road was one way in each direction and my mom had to drive to 18 & Van Dyke just to shop at a Meijer. You could leave your windows open at night and not hear a single car pass.

Fast-forward 25 years. There are multiple strip malls at every intersection, half vacant. Forests and wetlands have been bulldozed to make way for subdivisions and retail outlets. The roads have slowly turned into 5 lane expressways. It now takes 5 minutes to just turn out of my parents subdivision.

The story is mirrored in Macomb Twp. Subdivisions and outlet centers next to farmland and grazing pastures. Developers have thrown up the 4,500sq foot mini mansions and have basically destroyed the allure of living in these areas. Is it necessary to have a Kohls at Hall Rd, 23 Mile Rd [[Delayed due to the economic crash), and 26 mile Rd? The planning and development of land north of Hall Rd has been mismanaged and mangled so badly it really makes the area less and less desirable to me, although it is where young new money continues to buy.

Take 24 & Van Dyke as a prime example. Shelby Twp has created a downtown development plan to mirror that of Rochester's downtown. The first step to that was bulldozing everything at the intersection to waste money on structures mimicking Rochester. Trying to push out existing businesses in order to create the vision that the township board has for the area. The area is basically a barren wasteland save for a CVS and cafe.

Danny, your comment regarding sprawl all the way to 40 mile rd is bold, yet frighteningly accurate. In 95' if you would have told me that Shelby and Macomb would look the way they do now, I would have said you're crazy. Now, It's hard not to believe that Romeo and Armada will be swallowed up by sprawl in the next 10-15 years. It's already began.

**Hermod** · June-25-14, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

In the last 20 years, Macomb TWP. went to peaceful farmland beyond 20 Mile Rd. to a Levittown-esque sprawl. What makes Macomb TWP. the next boomtown suburb? It's neighborhood are not line ticky tacky little boxes, but a full line of McMansions. Any thoughts.

Give it about 50 years and we will see sprawl up to 40 Mile Rd. gobbling up forests and farmland.

Dakota High School Class of 2014 in Macomb TWP. Attachment 23814

**Danny** · June-25-14, 08:29 AM

Look what happen to Plymouth and Canton Townships. When I was a kid in the 1980s On may way to Ann Arbor, going to my first bowling tournament in Super Bowl Lanes or going to my friends soccer game. Any street pass Lilly Rd. was open farmland. I used to go Real Life Farmland and Apple Orchards for hay rides now its all gone. McMansion super sprawl had develop as far as Napier Rd. [[ County Line Rd.)

It's time to slow down Levittown-esque sprawl and redevelop our old cities like Gilberttown [[ Downtown) Detroit. Don't mess with our farmlands, forests and the animals who live there and depend on their habitat. Metro-Detroit will not be turned into the boroughs of New York City. Sprawl will have to stop the county lines of Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties.

**313WX** · June-25-14, 08:37 AM

On the flip side, you have the urban [[downtown Rochester/Royal Oak/Birmingham-esque) centers in Detroit such as Grand River/Oakman, Van Dyke/Harper and Chalmers/Jefferson which have practically reverted back to farmland.

e.p.3 · June-25-14, 08:51 AM

Families fleeing the crime creep. Nobody wants to live where it's convenient for the criminals to drive 5-10 minutes to commit a theft or worse, or where do-nothings loiter, or where it's easy for a family to use a single apartment address to send a dozen non-resident relatives to the school district.

sidebar: the area around Brighton/Milford/South Lyon has seen similar growth and is miles nicer than Macomb Twp, imo. In fact, I think that 23/96 area is some of the safest real estate in SE Michigan right now.

**Honky Tonk** · June-25-14, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I lived in Shelby Twp [[25 & Shelby Rd) as a kid until my mid twenties [[88'-10'). When my family moved there from East Detroit, we lived next to wetlands, a horse farm, and our subdivision backed up to Stoney Creek. During the day, I remember people riding horses down 24 mile road without a problem; pop up fruit and veggie stands on corners; hell, half of the roads were dirt. Hall road was one way in each direction and my mom had to drive to 18 & Van Dyke just to shop at a Meijer. You could leave your windows open at night and not hear a single car pass.

Fast-forward 25 years. There are multiple strip malls at every intersection, half vacant. Forests and wetlands have been bulldozed to make way for subdivisions and retail outlets. The roads have slowly turned into 5 lane expressways. It now takes 5 minutes to just turn out of my parents subdivision.

The story is mirrored in Macomb Twp. Subdivisions and outlet centers next to farmland and grazing pastures. Developers have thrown up the 4,500sq foot mini mansions and have basically destroyed the allure of living in these areas. Is it necessary to have a Kohls at Hall Rd, 23 Mile Rd [[Delayed due to the economic crash), and 26 mile Rd? The planning and development of land north of Hall Rd has been mismanaged and mangled so badly it really makes the area less and less desirable to me, although it is where young new money continues to buy.

Take 24 & Van Dyke as a prime example. Shelby Twp has created a downtown development plan to mirror that of Rochester's downtown. The first step to that was bulldozing everything at the intersection to waste money on structures mimicking Rochester. Trying to push out existing businesses in order to create the vision that the township board has for the area. The area is basically a barren wasteland save for a CVS and cafe.

Danny, your comment regarding sprawl all the way to 40 mile rd is bold, yet frighteningly accurate. In 95' if you would have told me that Shelby and Macomb would look the way they do now, I would have said you're crazy. Now, It's hard not to believe that Romeo and Armada will be swallowed up by sprawl in the next 10-15 years. It's already began.

Would you do me a favor and post a copy of your reply on the "Meijer Breaks Ground" thread? Everyone apparently feels the need for big box chain stores, and plenty of them.

e.p.3 · June-25-14, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

Danny, your comment regarding sprawl all the way to 40 mile rd is bold, yet frighteningly accurate. In 95' if you would have told me that Shelby and Macomb would look the way they do now, I would have said you're crazy. Now, It's hard not to believe that Romeo and Armada will be swallowed up by sprawl in the next 10-15 years. It's already began.

Romeo won't see the sprawl, commute is way too inconvenient from there. I'd bet on Lapeer before I'd bet on Romeo. But I'd bet on the 96/23 corridor around Brighton first, because that area provides easy access to Flint, Ann Arbor, Metro Detroit and Detroit.

**jackie5275** · June-25-14, 09:44 AM

My sis-in-law's family had a house built out there near 24 Mile & Schoenerr in 1995. Theirs was one of the first in the subdivision. I remember the first summer they were in the house, the sub was still mostly farmland. They had a big 4th of July party where so few neighbors were around, we were able to have big then illegal fireworks show. The following spring they had party for my nephew's Communion. At that time I saw the neighborhood was almost all filled in less than a year's time. Over the following couple of years, the whole area exploded with one subdivision after another of all huge houses. They just seemed to go on as far as the eye can see out there. I think closer to Gratiot there may still be some farmland type areas, but I can't confirm as I've not been out there for a couple of years.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-25-14, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by e.p.3

Families fleeing the crime creep. Nobody wants to live where it's convenient for the criminals to drive 5-10 minutes to commit a theft or worse, or where do-nothings loiter, or where it's easy for a family to use a single apartment address to send a dozen non-resident relatives to the school district.

Yup, that must be it. Crime in Clinton Township is out of control. Better to pave over an orchard for my dream house, so that people can't steal my shit.

**1953** · June-25-14, 09:49 AM

My family moved to Macomb Twp in 1984. It was mostly farms and very rural. I watched it all get gobbled up by the same house, and it fostered in me an interest in urban planning and design - and a love for Detroit - that shapes me today. I hope the whole population packs up and moves back to Detroit tomorrow.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-25-14, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by e.p.3

Romeo won't see the sprawl, commute is way too inconvenient from there. I'd bet on Lapeer before I'd bet on Romeo. But I'd bet on the 96/23 corridor around Brighton first, because that area provides easy access to Flint, Ann Arbor, Metro Detroit and Detroit.

Better get MDOT on a the case to build one of their patented totally-not-subsidizing-sprawl freeways!

**jackie5275** · June-25-14, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Look what happen to Plymouth and Canton Townships. Any street pass Lilly Rd. was open farmland. I used to go Real Life Farmland and Apple Orchards for hay rides now its all gone. McMansion super sprawl had develop as far as Napier Rd. [[ County Line Rd.)

True, so true. My son played fall baseball out there. I was driving through some pretty huge housed neighborhoods to get to his games. However, Real Life Farm is still there.

**Lowell** · June-25-14, 10:25 AM

"Wall the Sprawl". Our state desperately needs a sprawl wall law that prevents any further conversion of farmland or forest into residential or business. At the same time development within incorporated areas, especially declining ones needs to be incentivized.

**hybridy** · June-25-14, 10:42 AM

ugh macomb twp is for bourgeois commoners...y'all need to embrace silvebell rd.

complete w/private walled compounds:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/24...996d0cc46742bf

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gener...me-subdivision

**MikeM** · June-25-14, 10:45 AM

I'm from the eastside and I have no idea where Macomb Township is, but I suspect it's somewhere near Clinton Township, Harrison Township, Shelby Township or Chesterfield Township, although I'm not really sure where those last two are, either. I wouldn't know when I've entered or exited Macomb. I venture down Hall Road once a year. Is that in Macomb Township?

**sumas** · June-25-14, 10:57 AM

We lived very briefly in Macomb Twsp and ran screaming.

**the rock** · June-25-14, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

I'm from the eastside and I have no idea where Macomb Township is, but I suspect it's somewhere near Clinton Township, Harrison Township, Shelby Township or Chesterfield Township, although I'm not really sure where those last two are, either. I wouldn't know when I've entered or exited Macomb. I venture down Hall Road once a year. Is that in Macomb Township?

Hate to admit it, but I remember when Hall Road was a rural two lane road with farms on the North and South sides of the road. We used to call it "pumpkin alley" because there were so many farmers selling pumpkins in their front yards. Now what is Hall Road? 4 lanes both East and West?

**mikeg19** · June-25-14, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Would you do me a favor and post a copy of your reply on the "Meijer Breaks Ground" thread? Everyone apparently feels the need for big box chain stores, and plenty of them.

I'd be more than happy to oblige.

There is a place for big box stores obviously in the fabric of our cities. But when I drive down Hall Road and there is a WalMart at Mound & 53, another at Romeo Plank, and yet another at Gratiot, do we see a problem with that?

When I was a kid, the only thing you'd really see a duplicate of within such a short distance were fast food places. Now there is a CVS, Rite Aid, and Walgreens on every corner. I get it: convenience. But to cut down my drive time of 6 minutes to 4 is a waste.

**mikeg19** · June-25-14, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by e.p.3

Romeo won't see the sprawl, commute is way too inconvenient from there. I'd bet on Lapeer before I'd bet on Romeo. But I'd bet on the 96/23 corridor around Brighton first, because that area provides easy access to Flint, Ann Arbor, Metro Detroit and Detroit.

I don't know. I live at 23 & Gratiot currently and frequently travel to Shelby to visit my parents. I remember driving by all the gated off subdivisions that had all the utilities and streets in that were scuttled before the economy took a shit. Can't find them anymore. Those things are getting filled up quickly. It'll just keep expanding.

There were areas in Shebly/Macomb that were gigantic tracts of land just a few years ago that are now being prepped/currently are under development. Romeo is only a few miles north of 26 mile.

Also, don't forget how much the area around Romeo has changed either in the past 15 years. I used to visit my uncle up in Armada and take old Van Dyke up. Nothing but orchards and mom and pop stores. I think the biggest store on the way up there was a K-Mart. Now there are strip malls and outlets lining Van Dyke all the way up there. It's only a matter of time before the people who though Shelby and Macomb were out of the way and a good rural place to raise their family start thinking that way about Romeo and Armada.

I do agree with you in that there are other areas more primed for sprawl development, but in the end I still think in the next 15-20 years, 26 Mile will be as busy as Hall Rd, and the new "suburbs" will be located further north.

**mtburb** · June-25-14, 12:52 PM

Just somewhat related, but I remember back when Brownstown Township was still fairly rural in the 1980's [[although subdivisions were already being built)-as in, as soon as you crossed Pennsylvania or Telegraph, it nearly right away turned into farmland and forests. And now suburban sprawl has even invaded most of that township today-and has been since around 2000 [[although it actually started, to a lesser extent, during the 1990's).

**nain rouge** · June-25-14, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I do agree with you in that there are other areas more primed for sprawl development, but in the end I still think in the next 15-20 years, 26 Mile will be as busy as Hall Rd, and the new "suburbs" will be located further north.

If that happens - and it looks quite likely - the end result will be the complete downfall of huge swaths of the 8-14 Mile area in Macomb County. Goodbye Roseville and Eastpointe. We hardly knew ye, Warren. Only the shoreline will make it out OK. There just isn't enough population growth [[if there is any, really) to support that kind of development without a corresponding level of decay.

**DTWflyer** · June-25-14, 01:04 PM

I too remember when M-59 / Hall Rd was just a 2-lane road through Macomb County. We used to out there too to all of the roadside stands / orchards.

I cannot understand where in the world all of these people work? I do know a lot commute to Troy, Auburn Hills, and Warren.

I'd like to think that the sprawl will slow down, but I highly doubt that it will based on developers' continual need to be building.

**313WX** · June-25-14, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

I cannot understand where in the world all of these people work? I do know a lot commute to Troy, Auburn Hills, and Warren.

You answered your own question.

Not to mention we have so much overbuilt infrastructure to help people travel longer distances faster around Metro Detroit that traffic congestion isn't a problem these people have to worry about in their commutes.

**313WX** · June-25-14, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

If that happens - and it looks quite likely - the end result will be the complete downfall of huge swaths of the 8-14 Mile area in Macomb County. Goodbye Roseville and Eastpointe. We hardly knew ye, Warren. Only the shoreline will make it out OK. There just isn't enough population growth [[if there is any, really) to support that kind of development without a corresponding level of decay.[/COLOR]

It's already happening.

Have you been through Eastpointe and Harper Woods lately? Both have majority black populations, retailers have been fleeing these places and they probably have a sizable number of Section 8 renters these days.

Much of NE DEtroit will probably look like the lower east side [[with nothing but urban prairies lining the streets) over the next 10-20 years as those vacant homes are demolished or collapse.