GPP and their Farmers Market smack dab in Kercheval.

**Dan Wesson** · June-20-14, 11:34 AM

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...armers-market/

The snow has been cleared...

**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...armers-market/

The snow has been cleared...

I don't understand the outrage. They're building a marketplace. They're making it pedestrian friendly. They are overtly and explicitly stating that Detroiters are welcome. They are also saying that traffic is being re-routed.

What more do people want? Why is it an initial reaction to presume the worst? And honestly, if Grosse Pointe Park really wanted to keep Detroiters out, I'd say this is probably the worst way to to do it. They could just put up a perimeter fence and tell people they must enter the gated enclave at Jefferson and Alter or Mack and Cadieux.

**jt1** · June-20-14, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I don't understand the outrage. They're building a marketplace. They're making it pedestrian friendly. They are overtly and explicitly stating that Detroiters are welcome. They are also saying that traffic is being re-routed.

What more do people want? Why is it an initial reaction to presume the worst? And honestly, if Grosse Pointe Park really wanted to keep Detroiters out, I'd say this is probably the worst way to to do it. They could just put up a perimeter fence and tell people they must enter the gated enclave at Jefferson and Alter or Mack and Cadieux.

Agreed. My initial reaction was that this was to cut off traffic but it seems like the route to get around this is a quick path through an alley [[as outliend in the plan). If that's the biggest inconvenience then it certainly isn't to keep people out.,

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 12:20 PM

Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

**EastsideAl** · June-20-14, 12:22 PM

Well, that's a much nicer way to go. If it works out it, it sounds like it could actually be a real asset to the entire area. I take it then that they are not going to be erecting the George Wallace building originally planned to block Kercheval there?

**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this...how would you suggest they have done it differently?

**TKshreve** · June-20-14, 12:40 PM

5 will get you 10 that alley is closed off ASAP.

**SWMAP** · June-20-14, 12:46 PM

"Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

And that stupid girl from the New York Times reporting on all the new businesses creating a glimmer of niceness wasn't she STUPID to not find all the exciting Black-owned businesses in Corktown and include a few:

"Of course, it’s true that Corktown is a Detroit neighborhood that has had its fair share of white residents over the years, but it still rankles us that the New York Times comes to Detroit regularly, but only visits neighborhoods like Corktown and Midtown, almost exclusively covers businesses that are white-owned, white-operated and catering to whites, when Detroit is 82 percent black. You’d think you’d like some representative coverage, yes?”

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this...how would you suggest they have done it differently?

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

And that stupid girl from the New York Times reporting on all the new businesses creating a glimmer of niceness wasn't she STUPID to not find all the exciting Black-owned businesses in Corktown and include a few:

If it wasn't stupid, why did she apologize?

**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

Ya, but the snow is temporary. Now it is going to be a market. Sounds pretty welcoming to me.

**Dan Wesson** · June-20-14, 01:20 PM

The plan must be old because there are no structures present when veiwing google maps now on the SE corner of Alter and Kercheval. It looks like the street is going to be closed mid block by barricades and the [[empty?) liquor store is gonna disappear. Seems awfully tight for a round about at Wayburn. Wayburn is residential and Kercheval is throttled down already at the corners. This setup is not for auto traffic. That stuff about using the alley to skirt around is all talk.

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Ya, but the snow is temporary. Now it is going to be a market. Sounds pretty welcoming to me.

Not so welcoming to motorists trying to get into GPP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omDeKnbyoLM

**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 01:41 PM

Well for me this is less about race and more about walkability. I'm glad it's not as welcoming to motorists from any direction. Paris is not welcoming to motorists. I think it's a great place to be.

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Well for me this is less about race and more about walkability. I'm glad it's not as welcoming to motorists from any direction. Paris is not welcoming to motorists. I think it's a great place to be.

And I understand that you feel that way. But perhaps in your impatience to dismiss the connotations the market presents, you miss the way this is certain to alienate and disturb Detroiters. Detroiters, especially African-American Detroiters, have a long history of being faced with walls and barriers to hem them in. In the case of the Grosse Pointes, the barriers were often social -- a "points system" employed by real estate agents to keep out ethnic whites, Jews and blacks -- as well as the physical blocking-off of through streets.

Might I suggest that this is an opportunity to explore that history and perhaps develop a sensitivity to these issues that will help bridge these divides, rather that waving them away in the interest of leaving a stubborn problem unexamined?

**MikeM** · June-20-14, 02:02 PM

Not just the farmers market, but Kercheval After 6, one night each month. I enjoyed it very much:

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**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

And I understand that you feel that way. But perhaps in your impatience to dismiss the connotations the market presents, you miss the way this is certain to alienate and disturb Detroiters. Detroiters, especially African-American Detroiters, have a long history of being faced with walls and barriers to hem them in. In the case of the Grosse Pointes, the barriers were often social -- a "points system" employed by real estate agents to keep out ethnic whites, Jews and blacks -- as well as the physical blocking-off of through streets.

Might I suggest that this is an opportunity to explore that history and perhaps develop a sensitivity to these issues that will help bridge these divides, rather that waving them away in the interest of leaving a stubborn problem unexamined?

Well that's what I was asking you when I said...

how would you suggest they have done it differently?

Your response was:

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

Remember, I grew up on the wrong side of Mack Ave at the GPP border. I know all too well the feelings of being ostracized, excluded, alienated, etc. I'm not dismissing the connotations of the market. I can understand how the intentions can be misconstrued. But I also think the people misconstruing have a part to play in finding solutions as well. GPP has explicitly stated, and with no equivocation or code words, that DETROITERS ARE WELCOME to the market.

So is there more they can do? I'm not sure. Part of me wonders if Detroiters will feel alienated no matter what is done. But of course I'm open to further discussion. Which leads me to repeating the original question...

How would you have done it differently?

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

... Which leads me to repeating the original question... How would you have done it differently?

You confuse the function of criticism with that of uplift. Those criticizing bad ideas are under no onus to tweak a bad idea. Some ideas are simply bad ones.

Stated simply: Putting the market there shouldn't have been done in the first place. Too many Detroiters will see the market for what it is: a barrier. A barrier with a big locally-grown, completely organic, GMO-free, sustainable happy face slapped on it, but a barrier nonetheless.

**Danny** · June-20-14, 02:13 PM

It's horrible!!! It's Richville's way to cut off the black community from the white community. Demarcation in action folks. Next thing those rich white folks want is cut off every last neighborhood street from Mack Ave.

**corktownyuppie** · June-20-14, 02:14 PM

If your final conclusion is that they should just not put the market up at all, then I guess it is what it is.

It does beg an interesting question. Can the impoverished ever really feel welcomed by the privileged? I think we can [[and should) make honest attempts, but in the end, maybe every decision, every action, every opinion is going to be misunderstood.

I'm poor, you're my rich next door neighbor. You buy a big boat. I see this as you "rubbing it in my face". Then you invite me to join you, "I see this as you taking pity on me". Finally I may realize that your intentions are sincere, but I feel "inadequate" in relating to you because there is no real give and take in our relationship.

This stuff is complex stuff. And I do think that there's a lot to be discussed. But I will stop short at agreeing that the solution is for you to simply not buy the boat because if the way it will make me feel.

**SWMAP** · June-20-14, 02:15 PM

"If it wasn't stupid, why did she apologize?"

Feminine make-nice training. Or maybe she is a middle child. Or she didn't have time to absorb that her topic was Corktown and since 5e moved to midtown, no other business in Corktown [[yet) is AA-owned. When the much-maligned Vodka distillery opens on Bagley, that will be AA-owned, it appears.

I am reminded of an incensed correspondent to the Detroit News years ago when the G-7 [[then only seven) industrialized nations met here in Detroit for a ministers conference. Dennis Archer was mayor. The letter writer was upset at the blatant racism of a conference in Detroit to which not one of the African continent nations was invited to participate!!!!

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"If it wasn't stupid, why did she apologize?"

Feminine make-nice training. Or maybe she is a middle child. Or she didn't have time to absorb that her topic was Corktown and since 5e moved to midtown, no other business in Corktown [[yet) is AA-owned. When the much-maligned Vodka distillery opens on Bagley, that will be AA-owned, it appears.

I am reminded of an incensed correspondent to the Detroit News years ago when the G-7 [[then only seven) industrialized nations met here in Detroit for a ministers conference. Dennis Archer was mayor. The letter writer was upset at the blatant racism of a conference in Detroit to which not one of the African continent nations was invited to participate!!!!

Why don't you start your own thread to whine about this, SWMAP? I'm sure a lot of other whiney-McWhinersons will join you there to bemoan the perceived slights of an article that has nothing to do with this thread.

**SWMAP** · June-20-14, 02:32 PM

Well you do create a nexus between the two topics!

**p69rrh51** · June-20-14, 02:32 PM

DN, sniviling failed to point out that the developers plans were to include Kercheval in Detroit, but the neighborhood told them to f*** off and die. Its to bad, I would have very happy to see the area, especially around the library given the attention it deserves. There is more to the story than one alarmist story and as usual many on here fly off the handle without all the facts.

**Detroitnerd** · June-20-14, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

DN, sniviling failed to point out that the developers plans were to include Kercheval in Detroit, but the neighborhood told them to f*** off and die. Its to bad, I would have very happy to see the area, especially around the library given the attention it deserves. There is more to the story than one alarmist story and as usual many on here fly off the handle without all the facts.

What facts? Sounds like a rumor to me, unsubstantiated and presented by an interested party. As for flying off the handle, I think I've been pretty restrained in my remarks, commenting on things that should be obvious to any seasoned observer. If there's anybody flying off the handle here ...