Crime in Detroit

[GUSHI]

"Do we just keep locking people up for non violent so called crimes?"Dealing drugs is a violent crime, to not only affect the pusher and the addict, but also there family's. it affect the neighbors, the neighborhoods, etc . The addict robs and kills, to get there fix. Regulating drugs, so that the government and tax it, isn't gonna help the matter.

[Django]

It's only violent business because they are illegal DUH! Are you really serious about this argument of yours. You really didn't think it through did you? Building more prisons has done nothing to stop drug abuse, prison is not an effective deterrent. Drug abuse is a fact of life just like cancer it is a disease and needs to be dealt with as best we can. Locking up a user or a dealer also ruins lives for those people have families. You ignore the base issue which is why drugs are illegal which is drug abuse. Sorry if I was a dick but REALLY??

[GUSHI]

Locking up murders, rapest, car jackers, bank robbers, etc it not really a deterrent. so using your logic, let make it all legal. it will stop it from happening,

[GUSHI]

In a way, isn't the federal government program-welfare, suppose to all be a deterrent for crime, providing the poor food and money, how that working? It's teaching generations to work the system. By legalizing all drugs, all were gonna have is generation of drugies. I don't know about you, but when/if I'm high, my decision making is effected. So so speaking if a woman is high on crack and has intercourse , becomes pregrant, continues to use crack, nine months later if the baby makes it, she is havering a crack baby, effecting the cjust born babies life. will lead to generation s of users, once again I'm not against weed , just about every other drug, I have seen the effect of them on friends and family members, ruined there lives,

[313WX]

In a way, isn't the federal government program-welfare, suppose to all be a deterrent for crime, providing the poor food and money...

It's not suppose to be the ONLY deterrent, but it helps. What's your point?

Keep in mind we can't compare the crime rates of today with the crime rates prior to when the government-sponsored welfare programs were put in place because we didn't measure those statistics at the time. So if you're trying to claim that the government-sponsored welfare programs haven't helped in reducing the crime rates, how can you prove this?

[Dan Wesson]

It's not suppose to be the ONLY deterrent, but it helps. What's your point?

Keep in mind we can't compare the crime rates of today with the crime rates prior to when the government-sponsored welfare programs were put in place because we didn't measure those statistics at the time. So if you're trying to claim that the government-sponsored welfare programs haven't helped in reducing the crime rates, how can you prove this?

I can tell you that these government programs subsidize crime all up and down the social/business ladder.

Laws and rules mean little to a large number of the human species.

[Django]

So GUSHI, your friends and family who struggle with addiction should be locked up? My stance is that all the money we put to locking up these non violent offenders should be going to recovery and the study of addiction. We have tried your way for more than 30 years and it just doesn't work. I still don't understand how you can condone a practice where more people are dying over drugs than by drugs. Not everyone is going to go by heroin just because its available a little easier. Anyone can get drugs, its not that hard. You keep this prohibition up and it's going nowhere good, just like alcohol in the 20's.

[GUSHI]

Honestly I feel they should be locked up, mandatory rehab. There addiction had lead them to steal, upset there family's, turn once promising kids to thieves. I;m sorry I understand what you are saying, but i have seen what it did to my family, i don't want the shit ever legalized,

So GUSHI, your friends and family who struggle with addiction should be locked up? My stance is that all the money we put to locking up these non violent offenders should be going to recovery and the study of addiction. We have tried your way for more than 30 years and it just doesn't work. I still don't understand how you can condone a practice where more people are dying over drugs than by drugs. Not everyone is going to go by heroin just because its available a little easier. Anyone can get drugs, its not that hard. You keep this prohibition up and it's going nowhere good, just like alcohol in the 20's.

[GUSHI]

my point is it not really a deterrent, I grew up with more than a few that were on welfare, they still had a hustle on the side.

It's not suppose to be the ONLY deterrent, but it helps. What's your point?

Keep in mind we can't compare the crime rates of today with the crime rates prior to when the government-sponsored welfare programs were put in place because we didn't measure those statistics at the time. So if you're trying to claim that the government-sponsored welfare programs haven't helped in reducing the crime rates, how can you prove this?

[Danny]

In a way, isn't the federal government program-welfare, suppose to all be a deterrent for crime, providing the poor food and money, how that working? It's teaching generations to work the system. By legalizing all drugs, all were gonna have is generation of drugies. I don't know about you, but when/if I'm high, my decision making is effected. So so speaking if a woman is high on crack and has intercourse , becomes pregrant, continues to use crack, nine months later if the baby makes it, she is havering a crack baby, effecting the cjust born babies life. will lead to generation s of users, once again I'm not against weed , just about every other drug, I have seen the effect of them on friends and family members, ruined there lives,

If you read Orwell's book 1984, ING-SOC English Socialism Government feed the poor [[ proletarians ) with scraps of gourmet food as a part of their welfare program. It keeps them happy, grateful and prevent rebellious crime. America is like that, feed the poor with scraps of money and food to keep them happy.

[compn]

Locking up murders, rapest, car jackers, bank robbers, etc it not really a deterrent. so using your logic, let make it all legal. it will stop it from happening,

there arent 10 million murderers in america. but there are 10 million pot smokers.

do you want police focused on those 10 million pot smokers or the murderers? because right now, police and courts are focused on marijuana users. have you ever been to court? go and watch a courtroom for one day. look at the court docket. 50% of the cases are for marijuana. do you know how much court costs the tax payer? judges making $100k/year, prosecutors, attorneys... its a big racket. you are paying the price.

[GUSHI]

as I said in a prior post I'm good w / legalizing weed, just not the other shit

there arent 10 million murderers in america. but there are 10 million pot smokers.

do you want police focused on those 10 million pot smokers or the murderers? because right now, police and courts are focused on marijuana users. have you ever been to court? go and watch a courtroom for one day. look at the court docket. 50% of the cases are for marijuana. do you know how much court costs the tax payer? judges making $100k/year, prosecutors, attorneys... its a big racket. you are paying the price.

[sumas]

Many of you have heard my rant before but I feel to say it again. The war on drugs has driven drugs underground. Much of the violence is drug related in one way or another. Take the criminal element out of that game and regulate drugs in a safe manner, take away the profits by either decriminalization or full on legalization.
A kid gets caught selling drugs, goes to prison and gets out but cant get a job because of his record, where does he turn? usually back to the streets. People are constantly ripping each other off in the drug game, violence is usually the first response to someone who got ripped off. More people die over drugs than by drugs, at least illegal drugs.
So many have been to prison and jail over non violent drug crimes, prison is just a college for criminals and also teaches how to live with violence and use violence.
Thats my two cents.

For my two cents I agree with you as I have before on this forum. For the Sumas haters, no I don't do weed, heroin or coke so don't go there. The war is simply foolish.

Nice article in Mondays Detroit News about a judge in Ohio who agrees.

[MizMotown]

contributing factors to crime....

drugs [[addiction, hopelessness, low self-worth, mental health, upbringing)
destruction of family values, support
low paying jobs [[can't support a family on one-income, inequality, transportation issues, too many children)
in some cases lower IQ [[inadequate education, genetics)
gang mentailty [[gang activity rules)
no morals, consciousness, narcissism, anti-social/psychotic, mental health issues
selfishness
and
and living in a world driven by consumerism and materialism and not being able to obtain these "things"

[Mark Smiles]

I agree that the war on drugs should ended. No one should have to get a prescription to purchase any drug. If governmental restrictions on the marketplace were removed, more efficient distribution channels would emerge and I doubt todays drug dealers would fit in the new market.

Would those who are dis-placed by a shift in the market place suddenly decide to earn a living the honest way?

[Django]

Right now the US holds about 5% of the worlds population but we also hold 30% of the worlds prisoners. It all started with Nixons drug war and took an ever bigger increase when Regan re-introduced it during the crack years [[remember when the CIA was bringing it in and dumping it at cheap prices on streets of LA). Nothing good is going to come with keeping up this charade. Time to look at the big picture because if we want to just keep locking every person up with a little dope in their home what will our country look like in another 30 years? Privatized prisons are nothing less than modern day slavery. Lock em up and put them to work for pennies on the dollar, taking away jobs from legit workers outside. Lets face it, going to prison is just a college for criminals. I've never been to prison but I know people who have and those cats just sit around during there free time scheming up a "big lick" when they get out cause they know they wont be able to get a legitimate job on paper.

[Jimaz]

Right now the US holds about 5% of the worlds population but we also hold 30% of the worlds prisoners....

Metrics like these restrain me from feeling as patriotic about this country as I would like to be. This is exactly the opposite of the "land of the free" yet that tiresome, brazen hypocrisy persists relentlessly. It's an embarrassment to all Americans.

It doesn't have to be that way. We can easily take the high road. It requires merely calling out the fatalistic opportunists for what they are.

Simply remove the profit motive from the incarceration of American citizens. The law can be enforced without that unnecessarily corrupting influence.

The same goes for charter schools.

[aj3647]

Not everyone is going to go by heroin just because its available a little easier. Anyone can get drugs, its not that hard. You keep this prohibition up and it's going nowhere good, just like alcohol in the 20's.

Under even the most liberal of realistic drug reform scenarios, heroin is never going to be legalized.

[Danny]

contributing factors to crime....

drugs [[addiction, hopelessness, low self-worth, mental health, upbringing)
destruction of family values, support
low paying jobs [[can't support a family on one-income, inequality, transportation issues, too many children)
in some cases lower IQ [[inadequate education, genetics)
gang mentailty [[gang activity rules)
no morals, consciousness, narcissism, anti-social/psychotic, mental health issues
selfishness
and
and living in a world driven by consumerism and materialism and not being able to obtain these "things"

If only our free country create programs to prevent these every social symptoms, violent crime will be prevented. We have such programs, but its not enough.

[Django]

Metrics like these restrain me from feeling as patriotic about this country as I would like to be. This is exactly the opposite of the "land of the free" yet that tiresome, brazen hypocrisy persists relentlessly. It's an embarrassment to all Americans.

It doesn't have to be that way. We can easily take the high road. It requires merely calling out the fatalistic opportunists for what they are.

Simply remove the profit motive from the incarceration of American citizens. The law can be enforced without that unnecessarily corrupting influence.

The same goes for charter schools.

I completely agree. People don't seem to realize, and I will say it AGAIN, More People Die Over Drugs Than By Drugs. Take out the profit and you take out the killing. 60,000 in Mexico alone in the past 5 years or so. Half the overdose deaths can be blamed on street dealers not knowing their product and putting out a way to potent batch. Anyone remember the fentanyl deaths that took place here about 7-8 years ago? My friends grandson was on a ventilator till just last year when he finally died at 25-26 years old after getting some of that stuff. Which also makes the point that when you drive the price of drugs up people will try and find an alternative like meth for crack or fentanyl for heroin. I don't think many people realize what the markup is for drugs coming from their original country. $10 there will get you a $1000 here and that's fact.You cannot stop supply and demand. People will wise up. As I am a history buff [[History Channel) I've noticed that common sense rules in the end. Heroin will be legal someday, as cocaine and all others. Common sense will rule.

[Django]

This happened today in over a 100 cities around the world. Things are changing. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5533355.html

Boater4life, I apologize for jacking your thread but I am glad you started this discussion. When I first started arguing for an end to the WOD's here back in 2002 almost no one agreed with me so I am happy to see that more posters are now with me to end mass incarceration. Word has it Obama may be pardoning thousands of non violent offenders before he leaves office. Ill take any chance I get to speak on this subject. We all have to have a soapbox to shout from and for.

[Dan Wesson]

This happened today in over a 100 cities around the world. Things are changing. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5533355.html

That Nadezhda, she's hot !

[Jimaz]

...More People Die Over Drugs Than By Drugs....

So true. The effects are echoing back from the 70s.

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Nixon's Failed Drug War and Illegal Children

[night-timer]

Choosing a life of crime is very different to being forced into a life of crime.

If soft drugs were legalized and taxed, a dealer or person who chooses a life of crime [[in the hope of fast and easy profits) would then look for the next scam and the next million.

Private corporations already grow marijuana crops on the sly, waiting for the day it becomes legal for them to sell.

What we need to avoid in legalization is private companies trying to get as many people hooked on their product as possible. [[Less crime, yes, but more addicts.)

I'm not sure if hard drugs should become 'socially acceptable'.

[davewindsor]

I don't usually read the Free Press, but I read a copy at McDs today. First, I read about 4 men getting shot this morning on Detroit's west side [[2 fatally). Second, another man riding a bicycle near Palmer Park in the morning on Woodward gets shot in the back and is in the hospital. Not one article said any of these shootings were drug related. Not one article mentioned anyone getting robbed. They sound like completely random shootings.

Ya, legalization or marijuana is somehow going to change the culture of people getting shot in this city on a daily basis. This is just crap. There's just no respect for the law in this city. I say, as I've said in many other posts, three strikes, you're out. Lock 'em up and throw away the key for repeat offenders. That's it. Kill someone then automatic life sentence.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014062...roit-west-side

Four men were shot and two of them died after they were fired upon while walking down a street after midnight this morning on Detroit’s west side, police said.

The two who died were ages 18 and 37; the other two, ages 28 and 31, are in stable condition at Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit Police spokeswoman Jennifer Moreno said.
■ Related: Bicyclist, 54, shot in back while riding on Woodward in Detroit
The shooting was at about 12:30 a.m. as the men walked on Grand Street near Lasalle Street. The survivors told police they heard gunshots and felt pain, and they didn’t know where the shots were coming from, Moreno said.
The four men did not call police; instead, one of the group drove them to the hospital, she said. Police continue to investigate the incident.



http://www.freep.com/article/2014062...n-back-detroit

A Detroit man is in critical condition after he was shot in the back while riding his bicycle early this morning on Woodward near Palmer Park.
The victim told police he was riding past a man who asked him his name. The victim told the man his name and continued riding, then the “perpetrator fired one shot, wounding the victim in his back,” Detroit police spokeswoman Jennifer Moreno said.
The shooter fled and the cyclist called 911. The incident took place at about 2:30 a.m. near the intersection of Woodward and Hollywood. Police said the shooter used a 9mm handgun.
Police described the suspect as a black man in his 20s with a light complexion, 5-foot-9, 140 pounds, unshaven with scraggly, medium-length hair.