Crime in Detroit

[compn]

Even if we ended the war on drugs [...] I am convinced that we would see more home invasions, car jackings, and other robberies to make up for the dealer's lost income.

this is easy to prove. check the colorado crime stats [[crime is down)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...s-to-scare-us/

[Honky Tonk]

this is easy to prove. check the colorado crime stats [[crime is down)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...s-to-scare-us/

That's good for Denver. First of all, I doubt the pot trade had a lot of violence associated with it, no matter what the papers say. It doesn't command that kind of clientelle. Second, Detroit ain't Denver. There are bad pockets in Denver to be sure, but Detroit has a whole lot of other problems, poverty, and a totally different mindset that Denver doesn't.

[motz]

That's good for Denver. First of all, I doubt the pot trade had a lot of violence associated with it, no matter what the papers say. It doesn't command that kind of clientelle. Second, Detroit ain't Denver. There are bad pockets in Denver to be sure, but Detroit has a whole lot of other problems, poverty, and a totally different mindset that Denver doesn't.

If you talk to people, lots believe a fair amount of the violence is due to mid-level dealers screwing each other over on decent volume marijuana sales. Shorting someone product, shorting cash, etc. I don't agree, as everything I've seen regarding marijuana is really tame.

However, my friend who works for a medical dispensary in CO told me that there were a healthy chunk of lower to mid level pot dealers who either became part of or opened marijuana stores. They used their product knowledge, their business know how, etc to open a legit retail operation, now that their trade was legal.

[Honky Tonk]

If you talk to people, lots believe a fair amount of the violence is due to mid-level dealers screwing each other over on decent volume marijuana sales. Shorting someone product, shorting cash, etc. I don't agree, as everything I've seen regarding marijuana is really tame.

However, my friend who works for a medical dispensary in CO told me that there were a healthy chunk of lower to mid level pot dealers who either became part of or opened marijuana stores. They used their product knowledge, their business know how, etc to open a legit retail operation, now that their trade was legal.

NPR ran a story a while back about CO's new business competing for customers. It's spurred several ad agencies who's specialty is advertising the new marahoochie business. Very progressive thinking. The agency interviews were interesting. Who' da thunk it back in the day when we used to stuff towels under the door cracks so nobody would smell it.

[DetroitPlanner]

this is easy to prove. check the colorado crime stats [[crime is down)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...s-to-scare-us/

2 stoned 2 steal? It could be a false correlation. Unemployment is also being reduced and the economy is getting back on its feet. Could be two totally independent variables tracking the same way, but then again there could be a relationship. I don't put much into reports like this, they could be junk science.

[TKshreve]

What Detroit needs is a through-and-through pure bred leader to take the reigns. And to bring with him/her a core of dependable people who will not break the chain of vision.

Too long has petty, unchecked public corruption been at the roots of any broken service or department in this city. Crime is a externality of those broken services and departments.

A true leader would uproot other civil servants who keep Detroit in shackles. They would call out and hold accountable those who lead in the names of the few. A broken school board only misappropriates money. They do not make these kids skip school and not do their homework.

A deprived Social Services program only tackles issues reactively. They do not impregnate teenage moms out of wedlock. They do not unbeat children.

An underfunded and undermanned DPD only chases the severest of crimes. They can not suppress the smaller crimes, which in turn gives the impression that they are not noticed and irrelevant.

And as one person mentions above, a lax judicial system that abides by a catch-and-release mantra only exacerbates the problem. Keep the most violent people behind bars for terms of exception, and allow those who've proven rehabilitation is existent a second chance.

I believe this all starts and stops with breaking the cycle of incompetent leadership and the ability to line ones pocket once entering public service. This is also to include appropriating public moneys to the most impactful means available.

[SWMAP]

Some food for thought here:

The advocacy group Drug Watch International points out that drugs are illegal “because of their intoxicating effect on the brain, damaging impact on the body, adverse impact on behavior, and potential for abuse.
Their use threatens the health, welfare, and safety of all people, of users and nonusers alike.”¹²
Legalization advocates contend that the same statement could be made about alcohol.
William J. Bennett, former director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, responds to that claim, arguing “that legalized alcohol, which is responsible for some 100,000 deaths a year, is hardly the model for drug policy.
As Charles Krauthammer has pointed out, the question is not which is worse, alcohol or drugs. The question is, can we accept both legalized alcohol and legalized drugs? The answer is No.”¹³

Morton M. Kondracke of the New Republic magazine discusses another comparison between drugs and alcohol: “Of the 115 million Americans who consume alcohol, 85 percent rarely become intoxicated; with drugs, intoxication is the whole idea.”¹⁴

Legalization opponents believe that our already burdened health care industry would be overwhelmed if drugs were legal. This would come in the form of direct results of drug use [[more overdoses, more AIDS patients, and more illness stemming from addiction) and indirect results of drugs [[more injuries due to drug-related violence, accidents, and workplace incidents). They also believe that legalization would increase the number of emergency room visits, ambulance calls, and fire and police responses. The ONDCP reports that in 2002 direct health care costs attributable to illegal drug abuse were $52 billion.¹⁵

In addition, legalization opponents disagree with legalization advocates regarding whether legalization would increase drug use.

Legalization opponents believe that drug use would increase dramatically if drugs were made legal and easy to obtain. William J. Bennett uses the example of crack cocaine. He writes: “When powder cocaine was expensive and hard to get, it was found almost exclusively in the circles of the rich, the famous, or the privileged.
Only when cocaine was dumped into the country, and a $3 vial of crack could be bought on street corners, did we see cocaine use skyrocket —this time largely among the poor and disadvantaged.”¹⁶
The DEA also takes issue with the legalization lobby on the link between easier access to drugs and an increase in addiction from a humanitarian standpoint: “The question isn’t whether legalization will increase addiction levels —it will—it’s whether we care or not.

The compassionate response is to do everything possible to prevent the destruction of addiction, not make it easier.”¹⁷

[Detroitnerd]

Portugal's experiment with legalization has resulted in declines in drug use.

[ABetterDetroit]

I wonder why people keep starting new threads on the same topic instead of doing a search on here? It's like a broken record. A year and a half ago someone said basically the same thing and that we need more cops and I said bring three strikes and you're out laws to Michigan and ended up wasting a lot of a time debating with people on here who disagreed with it. http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ad-enough-cops There's plenty of answers to your questions on this site that have been debated ad nauseum that gets lost because of being watered down by so many threads on the same topic. What's the point of responding to the same questions over and over and over again. Why can't people just do a topic search?

This board has way more than a average amount of "broken record" thread topics than other internet public forums. Why that is would be a interesting topic compared to this dead horse. Did the OP
do a search with "crime" in the thread title?

[Honky Tonk]

This board has way more than a average amount of "broken record" thread topics than other internet public forums. Why that is would be a interesting topic compared to this dead horse. Did the OP
do a search with "crime" in the thread title?

I'm willing to cut him some slack because he's new to the forum, he's looking to move into the area, and he has a 42' Viking.

[Mark Smiles]

People have to want to obey the law. Simply because it is the right thing to do. I agree with Detroit Planner’s comment about greed. I would state it a little differently. People commit crimes that hurt others because they are evil. By evil I mean they take what they want without any concern for others.

I don’t blame the police or a lack of a police state, for the values that people have.

Those who commit crimes know it is wrong, but they do not care. If they know it is wrong, more education is not the answer. What good is it to teach someone something they all ready know?

The question about crime is really what do we do with people who choose to be evil?

Expecting a functioning society, out of people, who don’t want to obey the law is silly.

[The Nerd]

If you really think that the drug trade is a good alternative economy, then stop policing it. Otherwise, you're suggesting a very contradictory policy. [/COLOR]

That was neither stated nor implied in my post. I was essentially arguing that drug decriminalization isn't the panacea to end violence in Detroit, as some posters were arguing.

[The Nerd]

this is easy to prove. check the colorado crime stats [[crime is down)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...s-to-scare-us/

Please quote what I stated and do not splice my quote to argue against your own straw man. You edited out [[among several lines) the part where I stated that many local dealers are unemployable and lack the business smarts necessary to successfully transition to a world of drug decriminalization. The functionally illiterate drug dealer with a lengthy criminal record and who invested his profits into fancy clothes in cars, not savings or capital, will find himself at a business disadvantage in a drug world were business brains, no longer brawn, can make the difference between success and failure. If such a drug dealer can no longer succeed in the newly legal drug world and is unemployable otherwise then it's likely that he will continue to engage in illegal behavior, just as violent as drugs, if not more.

Now dealers with business skills, technical grow/processing knowledge, or access to capital may make the transition quite successfully.

[GUSHI]

Detroit Crime Problems = Kids having Kids x a generation or two. Pass out condoms, limit federal assistance, in a few generations the problem will come down. The importance of family has been down played. Most single parent homes only have the mother, the father is long gone,

[canuck]

OK but, who is going to sell the now illicit drugs? The governments or corporations?

Won't we always be complaining about the peddlers who profit from the meek?
Isn't there the spectre of mind numbing or mind control of a population by the private or public sector's elite?

[sumas]

Detroit Crime Problems = Kids having Kids x a generation or two. Pass out condoms, limit federal assistance, in a few generations the problem will come down. The importance of family has been down played. Most single parent homes only have the mother, the father is long gone,

Somewhere in you you have a kind heart. It is not the kids fault for any of this. Of course limit federal assistance, not a solution.

Just make hungry kids angry. Not their fault dildo dudes walk on responsibilities. I wish you could see the harm done to such sweet children. Children that should be protected, but as you causally say, eliminate federal protection.

[Zacha341]

I feel that the drugs are but another hindrance to employment for youth in the D. Employers need only screen for weed and they're disqualified!

They need not apply, and they know they need not try.

If you smoke will not be able to work, and you're taking a chance on a random screen.

In my experience not all crime is motivated by drugs. People are greedy and see Detroit as lawless. That needs to change first and foremost.

[Danny]

Crime in Detroit, look at crime in the suburbs, too.

Crime in Detroit is mostly on homicides, shootings, rapes, street drug or gang related, assaults, fights, knock out games, arson fires, carjackings before the robberies.

Crime in the suburbs is mostly home invasions, robberies, flashers, sex offenders, case and rob, smash and grab, drugs before the shootings, gang activities.

[Django]

As much as I want to go through SWAMPS last post and pick it to pieces I feel it would be a waste of time. Alcohol is a drug, enough said. Drugs can be a problem, enjoyed my many and abused by many. Making them legal will not solve everything but harm reduction I feel would be a better course of action. We already have more people in prison than any other country mostly because of the drug war. If we keep this up privatized prisons will only flourish making money by locking people up which is basically modern day slavery, putting these slaves to work for major corporations all at a huge profit. Locking people up is not the solution to drug abuse and drug abuse is the real reason we should be talking about this because drug abuse is the reason drugs are illegal in the first place. The drug war has created more problems than it has solved. Legalization will not solve all the problems but in the long run, a hundred years from now I think we would be better off dealing with drugs as a health issue rather than a legal issue. For those of you who feel addiction rates would soar with legal drugs ask your self this, are you going to go get a needle and some heroin as soon as it is legal? I generally find that common sense always wins in the end and while it may take some years this country will eventually wake up to the complete failure of the war on drugs.

[GUSHI]

No I'm not going "going to get a needle and some heroin as soon as it's legal", I have seen the effect of heroin on family members, and you say make it legal your it of you fkn mind, by making it legal all it does is tell kids, that it can't be that bad if it's legal, so let fkn try it. I'm ok with weed, but that junk no fkn way.

[GUSHI]

I started smoking at 17, even with all the advertisement against cigs, I figured they sell them over th counter, so they couldn't be that bad. now as a teenager/young adult, what not stopping them from thinking the same,when dealing with herion,

[Bill Simpson]

When Detroiters commit crimes in Livonia, they are caught and put in jail. If Detroit did that, the crooks would know to stay out of Detroit, like Livonia.

Second armed robbery suspect in Livonia sentenced to prison

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...text|Livonia|s

[Django]

GUSHI, I also happen to know the effects of heroin very personally. Ciggs were never deemed addictive or dangerous until the 60s after much advertising and being made a normal thing to do but today I would like to think we know better. Your option would be to keep locking people up which does no good. Drugs could be regulated and distributed properly to addicts, registered addicts. I don't believe any addictive drug should be advertised or promoted. Like I said in my first post, more people die over drugs than by drugs. How can you rationalize that? Not to mention all the lives and families ruined by people being locked up for minor drug crimes? The drugs will always run through the streets unregulated and addicts will use these unregulated drugs. Street drug dealers are not the right people to be distributing a possible fatal overdose. BTW its often said that illegal drugs are more easily found by high schoolers than legal drugs like alcohol or tobacco. I remember having a hard time getting a six pack of beer but finding a joint in the NW corner bathroom of my high school wasn't a problem. Do we just keep locking people up for non violent so called crimes? If you have a better solution to this failed drug war please enlighten us all.

[DetroitPlanner]

No I'm not going "going to get a needle and some heroin as soon as it's legal", I have seen the effect of heroin on family members, and you say make it legal your it of you fkn mind, by making it legal all it does is tell kids, that it can't be that bad if it's legal, so let fkn try it. I'm ok with weed, but that junk no fkn way.

The Pope agrees! http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...s-no-legal-pot The article oddly links the Popes words to legalization movements of pot, though it is pretty clear he is speaking of abusing everything.

[rex]

PD isnt reporting crime like they used to. Contrary to what OP says by watching or reading the news one might think Detroit is safe