Crime in Detroit

[boater4life]

Watching the nightly news, and it is the same things every night. Someone was shot, killed, and found in an abandoned house. Or "another beating on Detroit's eastside tonight". What can stop hoodlum's from ruining the revival of this city? I want to hear what everyone's opinion is and what can stop these cruel criminals. Some of the stories are sickening about how someone could do such harm to another person..

[Django]

Many of you have heard my rant before but I feel to say it again. The war on drugs has driven drugs underground. Much of the violence is drug related in one way or another. Take the criminal element out of that game and regulate drugs in a safe manner, take away the profits by either decriminalization or full on legalization.
A kid gets caught selling drugs, goes to prison and gets out but cant get a job because of his record, where does he turn? usually back to the streets. People are constantly ripping each other off in the drug game, violence is usually the first response to someone who got ripped off. More people die over drugs than by drugs, at least illegal drugs.
So many have been to prison and jail over non violent drug crimes, prison is just a college for criminals and also teaches how to live with violence and use violence.
Thats my two cents.

[animatedmartian]

This is going to be a long thread...

[masterblaster]

So much of it is about the disintegration of the Black American family. No one knows how to correct it. Maybe a network of well-intentioned mentors who seek fostering relationships with youth before they turn to crime, drug use, and other vices.

[Dan Wesson]

It's all officially subsidized by the government. Chicken scratch mostly.

A whole lot of non criminal types make a whole lotta money off of this situation too.

Nothing to see here, move along, move along. "The New Normal"

[canuck]

It's all officially subsidized by the government. Chicken scratch mostly.

A whole lot of non criminal types make a whole lotta money off of this situation too.

Nothing to see here, move along, move along. "The New Normal"

Yes, obviously. A bloated criminal justice and correctional system that feeds on an ever growing population to punish or incarcerate. Canada is not that far behind the US statistically in incarceration ratings. If Stephen Harper had his way, a whole lot more folks would be behind bars.

[Pickford-Bentler]

Many of you have heard my rant before but I feel to say it again. The war on drugs has driven drugs underground. Much of the violence is drug related in one way or another. Take the criminal element out of that game and regulate drugs in a safe manner, take away the profits by either decriminalization or full on legalization.
A kid gets caught selling drugs, goes to prison and gets out but cant get a job because of his record, where does he turn? usually back to the streets. People are constantly ripping each other off in the drug game, violence is usually the first response to someone who got ripped off. More people die over drugs than by drugs, at least illegal drugs.
So many have been to prison and jail over non violent drug crimes, prison is just a college for criminals and also teaches how to live with violence and use violence.
Thats my two cents.

On this forum, I feel you are one of the few who sees the big picture. One thing I might add is that a person who owes a dealer has an end of life clock going "tick tock" that can only be turned off by getting money. So this person will prey on any other person or thing that can get them money. And that other person is the most likely to make a victim of the law abiding people who live or work in Detroit. IMO, decriminalizing or ending the War on Some Drugs would probably reduce violent crime by 50%.

To me, a War on Some Drugs is as quixotic as a War on Poverty.

[TheUsualSuspect]

What I'm about to say isn't going to go over well, so just take it as one person's opinion and no particular claim to righteousness. It's my view and not yours. I have no particular interest to impress it upon anyone

The dissolution of the nuclear family and the emergence of the single-parent family, especially in, but not limited to, impoverished situations, has perpetuated a cycle which has eaten away at core values. Children who grow up without a strong father figure start life at such a disadvantage...especially the younger males. No great revelation there I think.

My more controversial view would be that the systematic and legal eradication of unborn life has affected us in ways that we don't fully understand. Without saying the words out loud, we have taught our children and convinced ourselves that life is not as precious as we make it out to be.

Now, I am too old and too pragmatic to believe the genie will ever be put back inside the bottle [[Roe v Wade overturned). That life OUTSIDE the skin of a mother is precious, and life INSIDE of the skin of a mother is a mass of cells, and therefore disposable seems to carry with it a price.

If it sounds preachy...forgive me...not what I intended to do. Merely my own personal observations.

[DetroitPlanner]

In my experience not all crime is motivated by drugs. People are greedy and see Detroit as lawless. That needs to change first and foremost.

[Dbest]

It's nice to see a certain segment of the population understands the bigger picture. The worst part of the whole scenario is who's behind facilitating all the "Drugs" coming in. You can thank the CIA for a lot of this but now it bigger than one agency. The CIA wanted funding for secret operations and built a fucking monster, effectively shittn where they eat and sleep...

[Honky Tonk]

On this forum, I feel you are one of the few who sees the big picture. One thing I might add is that a person who owes a dealer has an end of life clock going "tick tock" that can only be turned off by getting money. So this person will prey on any other person or thing that can get them money. And that other person is the most likely to make a victim of the law abiding people who live or work in Detroit. IMO, decriminalizing or ending the War on Some Drugs would probably reduce violent crime by 50%.

To me, a War on Some Drugs is as quixotic as a War on Poverty.

Though I endorse ending the "War On Drugs" and legalization, I don't see it happening anytime soon. There are, by now, huge corporations, and individuals, [[and I'm talking @ the top) benefitting by selling armaments and taking kick-backs from liquor and other lobbyists who are hell-bent on keeping their cash-cow grazing. That, and the fact that the private sector is now becoming involved in the prison system, taking manufacturing orders, and putting prisoners to work. They'll need a steady work force to keep those orders filled. Even if drugs were legalized, and the City mandated that heroin and hyperdermics be handed out on street corners, I don't think this is going to solve Detroit's crime issues, or put a big dent in it. Maybe about 20%. Detroit has a prevailing attitude that someone owes them something, if you need it, take it, and working is for schmuks. Until the populace gets educated, and that attitude changes, it's going to exist in that status quo. If drugs were legalized, what happens when the user comes down? What happens when the heat and lights get cut off? You're still going to need money. It'll be the equivalent of alcoholism. If you enjoy being high all day, and have no desire to straighten yourself out and be productive, what are your alternatives?

[corktownyuppie]

My opinions...Crime is high for 4 reasons.

[[1) Drug related crime. Obvs. And for the most part, it doesn't affect those who are not involved in the drug world. Don't be a consumer, don't be a distributor.

[[2) Domestic Abuse/Conflict Management. Too much of crime in Detroit revolves around people who already know each other. This is a heavy lift to fix, and will require "all hands on deck"...community support, education, etc. But again, it has very little effect on outside 3rd parties. Last week a DPD cop was killed by her husband in a murder/suicide. It's tragic, it's horrible. But it has very little impact on the "safeness" of the neighborhood. That didn't take place in Detroit, but that's beside the point.

[[3) Police/Law Enforcement incompetence. A dispatcher is being prosecuted for failing -- repeatedly -- to dispatch an officer to an active domestic disturbance [[see #2) involving a gun. Another dispatcher is being investigated for failing to dispatch a police officer to a robbery in progress for 40 minutes.

Are you f**king kidding me. These are the types of problems that are maddening because they are totally avoidable with zero increase in money or manpower. And unlike #1 and #2, this type of problem is the very kind of thing that *does* create danger to the community. A friend shooting his friend is one thing. A home invasion or store invasion is another.

Thankfully, this is also the type of problem that can be fixed with new management/leadership and accountability. Chief Craig is far more pissed about this than I am. And if the first dispatcher is being prosecuted for their failure, I won't be surprised if another one is coming down the line for this one.

Carjackings, home invasions, etc. are already showing small signs of improvement. My neighborhood in Corktown has an active residence base that is in regular electronic communication with each other, and we have personal relationships with the officers in our hood. They are receptive to residents passing leads, and with more and more newly installed cameras going up, the police are making progress in catching leads. I certainly have not known of any carjackings in my area, but my antennae are always looking out for dangerous situations. I think that's reality here.

It's still far from acceptable, and some private security is probably necessary, especially at gas stations and other at-risk areas. But generally speaking, having your car housed in a garage eliminates almost all the day-to-day security risk.

[[4) Poverty. This, unfortunately, is the heaviest lift of all. And there are no short-term solutions. Crime will be a problem for a long time in certain parts of Detroit. But for many neighborhoods basic security deterrents are quite effective.

[Danny]

Violent crime can not be stopped. It must be controlled.

[nain rouge]

I think legalizing many street drugs would be a bold step, and really, worth trying. Right now, it's too easy for impoverished people that view the odds as stacked against them to turn to selling drugs. With just a modicum of actual work, you're suddenly making good money.

If we legalized drugs, what would change? Would we suddenly become a nation of addicts? Somehow, I doubt it. And I think legalizing drugs would actually make it harder for teenagers to get ahold of such substances. I know that in high school, it was way easier to get marijuana [[for example) than alcohol. I mean, you could eventually get alcohol if you really wanted it, but you had to pull a lot more strings.

Ending prohibition took the bite out of the mafia. Could legalizing drugs take the bite out of street gangs?

[313WX]

I think legalizing many street drugs would be a bold step, and really, worth trying. Right now, it's too easy for impoverished people that view the odds as stacked against them to turn to selling drugs. With just a modicum of actual work, you're suddenly making good money.

If we legalized drugs, what would change? Would we suddenly become a nation of addicts? Somehow, I doubt it. And I think legalizing drugs would actually make it harder for teenagers to get ahold of such substances. I know that in high school, it was way easier to get marijuana [[for example) than alcohol. I mean, you could eventually get alcohol if you really wanted it, but you had to pull a lot more strings.

Ending prohibition took the bite out of the mafia. Could legalizing drugs take the bite out of street gangs?

The only problem is [[something no one has discussed) is what will those people who previously made a living selling drugs do now to make a living?

Last I checked, living wage jobs are in very limited supply around Michigan, and those few jobs require unique qualifications that most won't be able to meet.

[nain rouge]

Theoretically, head shops and dispensaries would employ A LOT of people. Obviously, it wouldn't make up the employment gap, but creating an illegal drug market to deal with unemployment is hardly a viable plan, either. Especially when you consider the costs of incarceration to both society and the individual.

[313WX]

Theoretically, head shops and dispensaries would employ A LOT of people. Obviously, it wouldn't make up the employment gap, but creating an illegal drug market to deal with unemployment is hardly a viable plan, either. Especially when you consider the costs of incarceration to both society and the individual.

For the record, I'm completely in favor of legalizing soft drugs and taxing them.

I just think we should also have a plan ready to re-incorporate these people back into mainstream society smoothly [[if the goal is to reduce the crime rates and the costs of incarceration).

[nain rouge]

Honestly, I think American needs to look at countries like France and Germany for answers. Shorter workweeks and more vacation appears to be a solution, but it would require some Americans to scale down their lifestyles for the good of society, and that's the real problem. We all believe we deserve to be millionaires. As a French critic once said, "America is a society of disgraced millionaires."

[davewindsor]

Watching the nightly news, and it is the same things every night. Someone was shot, killed, and found in an abandoned house. Or "another beating on Detroit's eastside tonight". What can stop hoodlum's from ruining the revival of this city? I want to hear what everyone's opinion is and what can stop these cruel criminals. Some of the stories are sickening about how someone could do such harm to another person..

I wonder why people keep starting new threads on the same topic instead of doing a search on here? It's like a broken record. A year and a half ago someone said basically the same thing and that we need more cops and I said bring three strikes and you're out laws to Michigan and ended up wasting a lot of a time debating with people on here who disagreed with it. http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ad-enough-cops There's plenty of answers to your questions on this site that have been debated ad nauseum that gets lost because of being watered down by so many threads on the same topic. What's the point of responding to the same questions over and over and over again. Why can't people just do a topic search?

[Honky Tonk]

I wonder why people keep starting new threads on the same topic instead of doing a search on here? It's like a broken record. A year and a half ago someone said basically the same thing and that we need more cops and I said bring three strikes and you're out laws to Michigan and ended up wasting a lot of a time debating with people on here who disagreed with it. http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ad-enough-cops There's plenty of answers to your questions on this site that have been debated ad nauseum that gets lost because of being watered down by so many threads on the same topic. What's the point of responding to the same questions over and over and over again. Why can't people just do a topic search?

The place is becoming a cesspool.

[majohnson]

Davewindsor-Logs into Discuss Detroit Forum, wonders why there are so many conversations about crime.
Maybe because the most notable thing about Detroit is . . . crime.

[The Nerd]

And then what?

State lotteries didn't end the number game. Even if we ended the war on drugs I doubt that we would see that much of a decrease in crime. Basically, drug legalization will remove low-level, often poorly educated, people with a criminal record from whatever illegal job they have as people flock to more business smart/corporate dealers. They're unemployable and I am convinced that we would see more home invasions, car jackings, and other robberies to make up for the dealer's lost income.

The root of the problem is the unemployability of a large part of the city of Detroit. Places with low unemployment, and an educated population may have problems, but nothing like on Detroit's scale. Such communities also consume less police resources. However, sadly, for many unemployable Detroiters it's too late. They'll most likely die in the streets or rot in jail because their criminal records are too long or they're too old to gain the necessary skills/basic education to become gainfully employed or start a legal business. And throwing money against the walls into schools doesn't help if the vast majority of the time a pupil is in an environment that neither reinforces nor values education.

Detroiters must realize that the days of finding an easy job in a factory, despite poor education, are long gone. Until then and until steps are taken [[those steps start at home) to make the vast majority of the population employable at middle-class wages in the regular economy then we can expect more of the same that we've experienced for decades.

[nain rouge]

State lotteries didn't end the number game.

No, but it pushed it out of the underground, and I'm willing to assume there is less gambling related crime as a result.

If you really think that the drug trade is a good alternative economy, then stop policing it. Otherwise, you're suggesting a very contradictory policy.

[compn]

The only problem is [[something no one has discussed) is what will those people who previously made a living selling drugs do now to make a living?

Last I checked, living wage jobs are in very limited supply around Michigan, and those few jobs require unique qualifications that most won't be able to meet.

same thing that happened when alcohol prohibition was changed one state at a time. the alcohol dealers moved to other states and caused their troubles there. while the states without prohibition started to rebuild.

[rex]

The only problem is [[something no one has discussed) is what will those people who previously made a living selling drugs do now to make a living?

Last I checked, living wage jobs are in very limited supply around Michigan, and those few jobs require unique qualifications that most won't be able to meet.

Those kinds of jobs are in very limited supply everywhere. I feel like drug dealers are atleast trying to earn a living. I have far less problem with these guys that people breaking into houses and stealing cars