Taubman dumping Fairlane & Partridge Creek

[hybridy]

and the metro retail shake up continues...

Find this a sign of the times. I can't see fairlane improving w/a new owner. The mall as we know it, is dead. Properties either need to be high end or outlets these days. Taubman is only retaining 12 Oaks [[Luxury) & Great Lakes Crossing [[Outlet) as MI properties. I considered Partridge Creek higher end, but I suppose its macomb county location isn't ideal to investors.

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...reek-Fairlane/

[nain rouge]

Brilliant American development strategy. Build something unsustainable, and then pawn it off when it's time to actually figure out how to make it work long-term. Taubman built Lakeside Mall, only to purposefully cannibalize its customer base with Partridge Creek. Now it's selling that, too, leaving the whole mess behind. What a great neighbor Taubman is!

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

You're right, hybridy. The "general mall" is no longer where people shop. No one's fault, just changing consumer habits. People go to outdoor "plazas" that have Walmart or Target or Kohl's for everyday shopping. They shop online for single items rather than roam the mall. Outlets and luxury properties provide experiences not easily replicated at the suburban plazas or online. Even seemingly better positioned general malls [[Oakland, Briarwood, etc) will not be as they are in 10 or 15 years.

[jonathanlivingstonseagull]

and the metro retail shake up continues...

Find this a sign of the times. I can't see fairlane improving w/a new owner. The mall as we know it, is dead. Properties either need to be high end or outlets these days. Taubman is only retaining 12 Oaks [[Luxury) & Great Lakes Crossing [[Outlet) as MI properties. I considered Partridge Creek higher end, but I suppose its macomb county location isn't ideal to investors.

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...reek-Fairlane/

I am surprised he held on to Fairlane as long as he did. Funny to think that at one time Fairlane was his flagship property.

[nain rouge]

People go to outdoor "plazas" that have Walmart or Target or Kohl's for everyday shopping. They shop online for single items rather than roam the mall.

I feel bad for workers at Macomb Mall. It's clear that the new mall owners plan to eventually turn it an "outdoor plaza" [[such as was seen with Universal Mall at 12 & Dequindre), but they have the mall workers celebrating the construction of a Dick's and partial teardown of the enclosed shopping area as a sign of positive reinvestment. When, in reality, they're just milking the indoor portion of the mall for what little is left to be squeezed out. Most of the shops in Macomb Mall will be gone in 5-10 years tops, I predict.

[hybridy]

I feel bad for workers at Macomb Mall. It's clear that the new mall owners plan to eventually turn it an "outdoor plaza" [[such as was seen with Universal Mall at 12 & Dequindre), but they have the mall workers celebrating the construction of a Dick's and partial teardown of the enclosed shopping area as a sign of positive reinvestment. When, in reality, they're just milking the indoor portion of the mall for what little is left to be squeezed out. Most of the shops in Macomb Mall will be gone in 5-10 years tops, I predict.

Lormax Stern is doing to Macomb Mall what it did to Livonia Mall now "Livonia Marketplace".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonia_Marketplace

[Amznblue]

and the metro retail shake up continues...

Find this a sign of the times. I can't see fairlane improving w/a new owner. The mall as we know it, is dead. Properties either need to be high end or outlets these days. Taubman is only retaining 12 Oaks [[Luxury) & Great Lakes Crossing [[Outlet) as MI properties. I considered Partridge Creek higher end, but I suppose its macomb county location isn't ideal to investors.

http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...reek-Fairlane/

One of the most ignorant posts I've read. Are you aware that the 5 miles north of Hall Rd.and 3 miles south of Hall Rd. Between I 94 and M59 freeway in Utica has the largest population per capita of household incomes of over 100k per year? Than anywhere else in Metro Detroit?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

One of the most ignorant posts I've read.

Don't read a lot of posts here, do you?

[nain rouge]

Lormax Stern is doing to Macomb Mall what it did to Livonia Mall now "Livonia Marketplace".

It makes sense. It's just the current PR at the Macomb Mall is nauseating considering the realities of the situation. It reminds me of a factory forcing workers to celebrate the completion of a new automated facility. Here's your employer essentially making a bold proclamation about how they wish they could replace you with a machine, and you have to clap and watch the ribbons get cut.

[Wesley Mouch]

Taubman DUMPS Fairlane Mall & Partridge Creek.

Can we lighten up on the rhetoric. Using these inflammatory works like DUMPS.

What Tabuman did was SELL FM & PC.

The one constant in retail is change. What worked yesterday isn't what'd done today. Once it was main street. Then strip malls, that grew into super malls like Northland. Eventually and sadly it was enclosed. Now the trend is back to the open-air malls. Next who knows.

This SALE says NOTHING about anything except retail firms changing their buildings to maximize PROFIT.

[DetroitPlanner]

These were not the only malls that Taubman sold during this package. Taubman seems to be concentrating more of his interests in the pac rim [[China and Korea). U.S. malls don't have much future.

[hybridy]

Taubman DUMPS Fairlane Mall & Partridge Creek.

Can we lighten up on the rhetoric. Using these inflammatory works like DUMPS.

What Tabuman did was SELL FM & PC.

The one constant in retail is change. What worked yesterday isn't what'd done today. Once it was main street. Then strip malls, that grew into super malls like Northland. Eventually and sadly it was enclosed. Now the trend is back to the open-air malls. Next who knows.

This SALE says NOTHING about anything except retail firms changing their buildings to maximize PROFIT.

i chose "dumping" because taubman is hq'd in bloomfiled hills and now only owns 2 malls in the state. and i say that because of what they did to lakeside [[sold & built partridge creek), as previously mentioned. its the cavalier attitude of building then dumping. im sure taxpayers get the ultimate tab to repurpose these properties.

[jiminnm]

i chose "dumping" because taubman is hq'd in bloomfiled hills and now only owns 2 malls in the state. and i say that because of what they did to lakeside [[sold & built partridge creek), as previously mentioned. its the cavalier attitude of building then dumping. im sure taxpayers get the ultimate tab to repurpose these properties.

I don't think selling 7 malls for $1.4 billion can in any way be considered dumping. The purchaser, Starwood Capital, has over $30 billion in assets [[much larger than Taubman) and is a major international development and hotel company. They obvously think their is something worthwhile in the malls. The fact that Taubman is located in Michigan was likely irrelevant to the decision.

[Goose]

don't read a lot of posts here, do you?

lol....

[Hermod]

This is what developers do. They build a building or a mall or whatever. They depreciate the building over the shortest legal life counting the depreciation against their profits. They then sell it for equal to or more than what they paid for it with the sale price over the depreciated value being taxed at capital gains rates. The new owner they starts the depreciation cycle over again until he sells out and a new depreciation cycle starts. That is how you do it in commercial real estate. Once you have the optimal amount of depreciation out of it, you sell it.

[DetroitPlanner]

Fairlane is not a Mall; it is a Town Center.

[nain rouge]

The new owner they starts the depreciation cycle over again until he sells out and a new depreciation cycle starts. That is how you do it in commercial real estate. Once you have the optimal amount of depreciation out of it, you sell it.

Yeah, I get it. When you run a corporation, you get to be amoral. At the same time, of course, regular people cheer this sort of behavior on. So I guess they want it. They want neighborhoods in their area to be dragged down by properties that are purposefully designed to be disposable, and as a result see minimal [[if any) reinvestment. Probably because they think that they too will move before the crap hits the fan.

It's a dreary world we live in.

[Hermod]

Yeah, I get it. When you run a corporation, you get to be amoral. At the same time, of course, regular people cheer this sort of behavior on. So I guess they want it. They want neighborhoods in their area to be dragged down by properties that are purposefully designed to be disposable, and as a result see minimal [[if any) reinvestment. Probably because they think that they too will move before the crap hits the fan.

It's a dreary world we live in.

The problem is with our tax structure. Things can make tax sense without making economic or common sense. My wife wanted to get into rental real estate some years back and in most cases, you were losing money in cash flow, but were making money tax wise with the big payoff when you sold. I didn't want to touch it.

[That Great Guy]

Brilliant American development strategy. Build something unsustainable, and then pawn it off when it's time to actually figure out how to make it work long-term. Taubman built Lakeside Mall, only to purposefully cannibalize its customer base with Partridge Creek. Now it's selling that, too, leaving the whole mess behind. What a great neighbor Taubman is!

What we need is to create a Regional Mall Authority RMA to raise money to repair these aging malls. A small 0.1 mil property tax would only cost the average family $10 per year.

In these hard times people need jobs and this would mean helping out many people.

[D_Town]

Sounds more like Taubman is trying to get capital for their international expansion.

[mikeg19]

I think it's a bit surprising to read in the article that Partridge Creek was considered a less profitable mall in the portfolio. Whenever I drive past that place it's packed and you can't drive past it without massive congestion on Hall road. Plus almost all of the stores are upscale and caters to a lot of the young money in Shelby and Macomb Twp.

The one downside to the place [[besides actually driving on Hall road & parking there) is the amount of kids that hangout there. I understand that the point of the mall is to be walkable and encourage congregation, but the troves of teens in groups of 10-15 acting like idiots gets on my nerves. It used to be that way at Lakeside, now that mall is basically a ghost town. Build the outlet mall at 94 & Hall Road, Partridge Creek will start to dwindle as well.

I've never understood the logic of placing a mall 1 mile away from another mall, eventhough it caters to a more affluent crowd in some respects. I don't see how adding yet another outlet mall 2 miles away from Partridge Creek will do anything but cannibalize sales from Lakeside and Partridge Creek.

There are so many shopping options that I feel like adding even more just so I can drive 3 miles to a mall rather then 6 is ridiculous. If the rumblings of a mall in the northern Shelby/Macomb area come to fruition, how the hell would these places on Hall Road survive? I'd be willing to bet that an enormous amount of their sales come from people living in the 10 miles north of Hall Road. But hey, I'm not a developer putting millions of dollars on the line. That's their call.

[nain rouge]

What we need is to create a Regional Mall Authority RMA to raise money to repair these aging malls. A small 0.1 mil property tax would only cost the average family $10 per year.

Very funny. Obviously, the only way to stop behavior like Taubman's is for consumers to vote with their wallets. But they won't. If Taubman opened up another mall on Hall Road, they'd all shop there and talk about about Lakeside is "ghetto" now, although they used to like it.

[DetroitPlanner]

I think it's a bit surprising to read in the article that Partridge Creek was considered a less profitable mall in the portfolio. Whenever I drive past that place it's packed and you can't drive past it without massive congestion on Hall road. Plus almost all of the stores are upscale and caters to a lot of the young money in Shelby and Macomb Twp.

Where did you read that? I can't find it in the article. In fact I can't find profitable or least when I search using the web tool.

Regardless. It may have something to do with its relative small size and not being fully capitalized yet [[a lot of debt). I don't really know. I have invested a fair amount into REITs and can tell you that often several properties are purchased at a time as part of a package deal.

The fact that someone wanted these properties is most likely a good thing. They see potential profits. I do know that Taubman was the an original developer of Fountain Walk in Novi and he basically gave the thing away before it opened. He took a bath on it. No one wants it, yet it does have a few things that seem to pull consumers. Its location has a lot of problems it is sited like a Cracker Barrel in which you can see it from the freeway but you can't figure out how to get there!

[Hypestyles]

some walkable, transit-friendly shopping plazas need to be built in Detroit. Preferably with a diverse lineup of shops.

[Wesley Mouch]

Where did you read that? I can't find it in the article. In fact I can't find profitable or least when I search using the web tool.

Regardless. It may have something to do with its relative small size and not being fully capitalized yet [[a lot of debt). I don't really know. I have invested a fair amount into REITs and can tell you that often several properties are purchased at a time as part of a package deal.

The fact that someone wanted these properties is most likely a good thing. They see potential profits. I do know that Taubman was the an original developer of Fountain Walk in Novi and he basically gave the thing away before it opened. He took a bath on it. No one wants it, yet it does have a few things that seem to pull consumers. Its location has a lot of problems it is sited like a Cracker Barrel in which you can see it from the freeway but you can't figure out how to get there!

Maybe just the fact that Taubman was selling these properties suggested lack of profitability. That's a mistake. Business at that level buy & sell properties for all kinds of reasons -- lack of profitability is only one.

Sometimes you buy/sell to match up properties to what your investors want to own. Sometimes you need cash. Sometimes you have cash. Sometimes you want properties that are all alike -- and other times you want properties that are diverse.

Sure, profitable properties are less likely to be on the market.