A city's "walkability" drives real estate values -- CNBC

[BankruptcyGuy]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101766206

Most walkable: Washington DC
Detroit: #22 [[of 30)
Dallas, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego--all lower ranked than Detroit.

Interestingly, Detroit is in the ballpark of all the other midwestern cities other than Chicago.

[Pickford-Bentler]

Real estate values are based on a multiplicity of factors wherein walkability can possibly be a significant driving force.

In the article, they cite Crystal City as an example. I owned property by and worked in Crystal City for 18 years. IMO, the DC metro area has a significant demographic subset that found that type of living desirable. However, there was another subset who did the very long commute to places such as Quantico, Va. or Frederick MD. who wanted homes way out in the exurbs.

And sprawl has occurred in the DC area. In the 1980s, the junction of I-70 and I-270 in Frederick was a low traffic event looking out over horse farms. Today, it is a mess of cars and trucks looking out over a sea of new housing.

So there are other factor to consider.

What's funny is that the long distance commuters told me, in the late 1980s, that Crystal City was an overpriced mess soon to be overrun by undesirable people such that I would lose my shirt. Well that did not happen.


And there was also people who argued that the exurbs were doomed when gasoline went through the roof. Well, that didn't happen, either.

I have friends who have done quiet well with their investments in Centerville.

Different strokes for different folks?

[DetroitPlanner]

Detroit's issue is not walkability. There are sidewalks everywhere. The issue is there is no reason to walk any longer. Much of the neighborhood commercial activity is poor and you risk being robbed by neighborhood hoodlums.

This may not be the case in Hipsterville, but it is certainly the case in Detroit's other 120 square miles.

[Bham1982]

In the article, they cite Crystal City as an example.

If the article cites Crystal City as an example for walkability, the article can be discarded.

Crystal City is generally pedestrian hostile, auto-oriented and inward-focused development based on 1960's-era ideas of urban form, all right next to the airport.

[iheartthed]

If the article cites Crystal City as an example for walkability, the article can be discarded.

Crystal City is generally pedestrian hostile, auto-oriented and inward-focused development based on 1960's-era ideas of urban form, all right next to the airport.

You should read the article.

[Bham1982]

You should read the article.

The article claims Crystal City is walkable, and this claimed walkability is driving the relative desirability, especially for Young Millenaills.

Crystal City looks like a denser version of Southfield. And most Crystal City Office Space is occupied by those trendy hipsters out of the Pentagon. So, essentially, the article is garbage.

The article also claims that DC is more walkable than NYC of all places and has more than twice the proportion of walkable areas as Philly. Philly is many times more walkable than DC, which is characterized by a much higher proportion of postwar suburban development, and even the core neighborhoods tend to be characterized by larger blocks, wider roads, and other inherently more pedestrian-hostile streetscape elements.

[Pickford-Bentler]

If the article cites Crystal City as an example for walkability, the article can be discarded.

Crystal City is generally pedestrian hostile, auto-oriented and inward-focused development based on 1960's-era ideas of urban form, all right next to the airport.

Have you ever lived there or even been there?

Give me specific examples of how it is pedestrian hostile.

I used to walk or jog to the Mall in DC. There is a pedestrian tunnel at the water park on Crystal Drive that takes one to the Mount Vernon bike trail that leads to a pedestrian bridge over the Potomac that feeds one to the Jefferson Memorial.

Or, if one wants to walk south, the trail leads to Old Town, Alexandria.

When I moved by Army Navy Drive, I walked to my office.

One cuts through the Virginia Highlands park, goes along S Hayes and enters by crossing Eads.

And, as you point out, it is self contained. So mundane tasks like banking, hair cuts, a cup of coffee, a gym all do not require driving.

And the metro stop made doing any business with the Arlington County Court House a non-driving event.

And if one is a bicyclist, it is better.

The Custis, Mount Vernon, WO&D loop make a lot of things accessible without needing a car.


The inward focus was part of the original design. The restructuring of Route 1 and the moving of the RR tracks along with bike trail access occurred after I moved to the area.

Since I move away, there has been an opening up to the south to tie into the developments going on at the old Potomac Yard site.

I liked the area because, at the time, I was a avid bicyclist.

So I see Crystal City in the context of its proximate environment rather that the entity unto itself.

And, in the 1960s, before the Metro, it was, indeed, a drive to, self contained office park isolated from the rest of its environment.

I was told that it was isolated because, at that time, the surroundings were not considered desirable.

If I was to move back to the area, I would probably choose the development by Slater's Lane. I thought about buying a TH there back in 2002 for about $330,000. Values have appreciated and held well, since then.

[professorscott]

Someone pointed out that Detroit has sidewalks everywhere. A city's walkability isn't simply predicated on whether it is possible to walk; it is possible to walk anywhere. When I lived on a farm, the farm and surrounding area was perfectly walkable. That's not the point.

The point of a walkability index is to measure how much of your day's activities can be accomplished on foot. Can you walk to a grocery, can you walk to your dentist's office, can you walk to work [[or to a transit station to get to work), can you walk to the library, and so forth.

What makes Detroit per se unwalkable, in large measure, is that the kinds of things you'd want to walk to have largely left the city. Much of Ferndale is walkable; Detroit is not, with some notable exceptions. But measuring the city as a whole, Detroit is not in any way walkable, using the word the way it's meant in these kinds of articles.

[Pickford-Bentler]

If the article cites Crystal City as an example for walkability, the article can be discarded.

Crystal City is generally pedestrian hostile, auto-oriented and inward-focused development based on 1960's-era ideas of urban form, all right next to the airport.

Have you ever lived there or even been there?

Give me specific examples of how it is pedestrian hostile.

I used to walk or jog to the Mall in DC. There is a pedestrian tunnel at the water park on Crystal Drive that takes one to the Mount Vernon bike trail that leads to a pedestrian bridge over the Potomac that feeds one to the Jefferson Memorial.

Or, if one wants to walk south, the trail leads to Old Town, Alexandria.

When I moved by Army Navy Drive, I walked to my office.

One cuts through the Virginia Highlands park, goes along S Hayes and enters by crossing Eads.

And, as you point out, it is self contained. So mundane tasks like banking, hair cuts, a cup of coffee, a gym all do not require driving.

And the metro stop made doing any business with the Arlington County Court House a non-driving event.

And if one is a bicyclist, it is better.

The Custis, Mount Vernon, WO&D loop make a lot of things accessible without needing a car.


The inward focus was part of the original design. The restructuring of Route 1 and the moving of the RR tracks along with bike trail access occurred after I moved to the area.

Since I move away, there has been an opening up to the south to tie into the developments going on at the old Potomac Yard site.

I liked the area because, at the time, I was a avid bicyclist.

So I see Crystal City in the context of its proximate environment rather that the entity unto itself.

And, in the 1960s, before the Metro, it was, indeed, a drive to, self contained office park isolated from the rest of its environment.

I was told that it was isolated because, at that time, the surroundings were not considered desirable.

If I was to move back to the area, I would probably choose the development by Slater's Lane. I thought about buying a TH there back in 2002 for about $330,000. Values have appreciated and held well, since then.

[DetroitPlanner]

It is sad, I can admit to only walking to my grandmother's house and transit. Grandma died over a decade ago. I stopped taking transit when seven kids were shot at my bus stop.

The potential for walkability is there.

[Pickford-Bentler]

Someone pointed out that Detroit has sidewalks everywhere. A city's walkability isn't simply predicated on whether it is possible to walk; it is possible to walk anywhere. When I lived on a farm, the farm and surrounding area was perfectly walkable. That's not the point.

The point of a walkability index is to measure how much of your day's activities can be accomplished on foot. Can you walk to a grocery, can you walk to your dentist's office, can you walk to work [[or to a transit station to get to work), can you walk to the library, and so forth.

What makes Detroit per se unwalkable, in large measure, is that the kinds of things you'd want to walk to have largely left the city. Much of Ferndale is walkable; Detroit is not, with some notable exceptions. But measuring the city as a whole, Detroit is not in any way walkable, using the word the way it's meant in these kinds of articles.

I agree.

When I lived in Crystal City, everything I needed was within walking distance. At that time, the little Safeway was still in operation.

I still use the dentist there, although I have drive about 35 miles, these days.