Will Detroit understand the opportunity at hand or ruin it all allover again.

**YounginDetroit** · June-16-14, 02:20 PM

Hypothetically, Duggan's goal of adding population in five years comes true and the city is in need of housing near downtown do you think the city will get it right. I love Detroit but lets be honest it has a rather lame streetscape. Wide boulevards and small buildings is a little depressing. What I would want to see is not only an average height of 4 to 8 stories on the main roads[[ near greater downtown not like, 8 mile and Gratiot) and smaller buildings more integrated into the actual neighborhoods instead if just on the main roads. What do you think eill attract developers to Detroit; tax breaks, an opportunity to build whole neighborhoods? Do you think the city should employ a small collection of urban planners to advise what's best just to get things started?

**Detroitnerd** · June-16-14, 02:43 PM

Lay down rail in the street and build a serious rapid transit system and you won't need to give tax breaks to anybody.

Next question.

**EastsideAl** · June-16-14, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by YounginDetroit

Do you think the city should employ a small collection of urban planners to advise what's best just to get things started?

As far as I know, we still do that. Thus far their advice has mostly been: tear that old schitt down!; that may look like a vacant lot full of gravel to you, but its really an urban garden!; more parking!; townhouses facing parking lots are the best housing ever!; give people no services and utilities no matter how much taxes they pay and they'll have to move!; when all else fails, build a giant incinerator or refinery right in the middle of a residential area; casinos will fix everything!; the way to deal with irreplaceable historic structures is to let that old schitt decay until somebody has to tear it down; destroy those shopping areas by building an impassible median down the middle of the street!; tear more neighborhoods down for wider freeways!; and more superblocks! and, again, more parking! Always more parking!

**EastsideAl** · June-16-14, 03:03 PM

Perhaps I'm being just a little too harsh. Someone deserves credit for the Riverwalk and the Dequindre cut, even if it seems to be the only decent urban planning done around here for many decades.

**YounginDetroit** · June-16-14, 03:13 PM

You're right urban planners NOT from michigan

**313WX** · June-16-14, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by YounginDetroit

You're right urban planners NOT from michigan

Catch-22.

Even if they wanted to hire urban planners NOT from Michigan [[and why would they when they have tons of family and friends IN Michigan out of work?), I doubt anyone without ties to Michigan would voluntarily live in a place like Detroit as it is.

**maverick1** · June-16-14, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Perhaps I'm being just a little too harsh. Someone deserves credit for the Riverwalk and the Dequindre cut, even if it seems to be the only decent urban planning done around here for many decades.

Nah, you're not being harsh you're being truthful. The islands on Livernois or the subdivisions near the marina and waterfront on the east side are some of the most confusing and ass backwards [[to me) recent developments in this city.

**maverick1** · June-16-14, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Catch-22.

Even if they wanted to hire urban planners NOT from Michigan [[and why would they when they have tons of family and friends IN Michigan out of work?), I doubt anyone without ties to Michigan would voluntarily live in a place like Detroit as it is.

I would think Detroit would be an urban planners dream, right? There has been so much disinvestment and land is so cheap in the core of the city that a lot of boundaries to creativity have been eliminated.

**313WX** · June-16-14, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

I would think Detroit would be an urban planners dream, right? There has been so much disinvestment and land is so cheap in the core of the city that a lot of boundaries to creativity have been eliminated.

Perhaps, but you would have to get TPTB to go along with those dreams [[thus the problem).

**YounginDetroit** · June-16-14, 03:53 PM

I'm just constantly hearing how the greater downtown area is 96% filled and mire apartments being rehabbed, with land so cheap I don't understand why developers aren't lining up, is it because of the dollar per square foot or just cautious of Detroit after the recession.

**Hermod** · June-16-14, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Perhaps I'm being just a little too harsh. Someone deserves credit for the Riverwalk and the Dequindre cut, even if it seems to be the only decent urban planning done around here for many decades.

Well, it would be better if the Dequindre Cut was filled with commuter trains instead of bicyclists.

**Bham1982** · June-16-14, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by YounginDetroit

I'm just constantly hearing how the greater downtown area is 96% filled and mire apartments being rehabbed, with land so cheap I don't understand why developers aren't lining up, is it because of the dollar per square foot or just cautious of Detroit after the recession.

Because the local papers are worthless rags. Reading them you would think Detroit is the next Dubai.

Ever read a serious article on the GM brake scandal in the Freep/DetNews? Me neither. It's one of the biggest events in GM history, and has resulted in many deaths and billions in lost local wealth, but Crains/Freep/Detnews prefer groundbreaking headline articles like "Jimmy Johns opens downtown".

**ABetterDetroit** · June-16-14, 09:09 PM

Okay I'm going to jack a thread here. How many posters have diffrent aliases and pump there own post? I can't be the only one aware of it.

**Oddz313** · June-17-14, 04:16 PM

It really comes down to 3 things if Detroit is going to grow the population by more than a mere 10,000 residents or so. Schools, Public services and transportation. Those are the things the city can somewhat control. The last thing is the economy, which is more of a regional/national thing other than what cities the jobs are located in the area.

**softailrider** · June-17-14, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by maverick1

I would think Detroit would be an urban planners dream, right? There has been so much disinvestment and land is so cheap in the core of the city that a lot of boundaries to creativity have been eliminated.

Tough city to work in. Try to rehab a house without some kind of security 24-7, I'm talking in almost every part of the city. In the burbs you can drop 15000.00 worth of lumber on the front lawn. If you leave building materials INSIDE a Detroit house you better have somebody there sitting with it.

**corktownyuppie** · June-17-14, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by YounginDetroit

I'm just constantly hearing how the greater downtown area is 96% filled and mire apartments being rehabbed, with land so cheap I don't understand why developers aren't lining up, is it because of the dollar per square foot or just cautious of Detroit after the recession.

Dollar per square foot is a part of it. The other part is that construction lending favors vacant land over building renovation. Especially buildings that haven't seen occupants in decades. It's hard enough to get construction lending when you have a vacant piece of land and you have an idea what the construction cost would be. It's damn near impossible when you are gutting an old building and the costs are a giant wildcard.

You know how after a car accident, sometimes the cost of repairing the car would exceed the value of the car itself? That's pretty much what makes development really tough in Downtown Detroit

**ghettopalmetto** · June-17-14, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Dollar per square foot is a part of it. The other part is that construction lending favors vacant land over building renovation. Especially buildings that haven't seen occupants in decades. It's hard enough to get construction lending when you have a vacant piece of land and you have an idea what the construction cost would be. It's damn near impossible when you are gutting an old building and the costs are a giant wildcard.

You know how after a car accident, sometimes the cost of repairing the car would exceed the value of the car itself? That's pretty much what makes development really tough in Downtown Detroit

But if that were really true, wouldn't we be seeing a whole hell of a lot more NEW buildings vis-a-vis all the buildings that have been renovated, or are in the process of being renovated?

Given the increased occupancy rates, it just makes you think how many more occupied buildings there could be [[*ahem* Madison-Lenox, Lafayette) if they hadn't been torn down just a few years ago.

I'm gladly grabbing an oar and jumping in EastsideAl's boat.

**stasu1213** · June-18-14, 07:24 AM

Detroit doesn't need any more highrises. There is enough land to build two to three story buildings for anything from office space to residential. The Dequindre Cut would be a great place for a route that bicycle taxis could travel taking passengers from downtown or the riverfront to midtown without the interruption of traffic on the main streets. Each neighborhood having it's own retail district such as before but could also be a destination for visitors

**corktownyuppie** · June-18-14, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

But if that were really true, wouldn't we be seeing a whole hell of a lot more NEW buildings vis-a-vis all the buildings that have been renovated, or are in the process of being renovated?

Given the increased occupancy rates, it just makes you think how many more occupied buildings there could be [[*ahem* Madison-Lenox, Lafayette) if they hadn't been torn down just a few years ago.

I'm gladly grabbing an oar and jumping in EastsideAl's boat.

I'm all for historic preservation, and my commentary isn't meant to defend demolition. The reasons why old properties get torn down are varied, sometimes unjustifiable in my opinion, and are beyond the scope of the point I'm trying to make.

To answer your question, we actually have seen a lot more new construction vs. rehab. Look at the condo development on the east side of Woodward just north of I-75 near Comerica Park, the subdivision development on the west side of the Lodge near the Motor City Casino, the Auburn in Midtown, the soon-to-be Griswold atop the Book Cadillac parking structure, Woodward Garden apartments at Woodward north of Orchestra Hall, the Ellington at Woodward/MLK, Woodbridge Estates at Selden and 3rd, Studio One apartments...and on and on.

**nain rouge** · June-18-14, 09:37 AM

Hell, I'm one of the biggest Metro Detroit naysayers out there, but there's no denying that a lot of progress has been made in "Greater Downtown" of whatever the hell you want to call it. That's not saying there isn't still a long way to go, but it's quite an improvement.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-19-14, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Oddz313

It really comes down to 3 things if Detroit is going to grow the population by more than a mere 10,000 residents or so. Schools, Public services and transportation. Those are the things the city can somewhat control. The last thing is the economy, which is more of a regional/national thing other than what cities the jobs are located in the area.

The only way the population will grow is they get a handle on the vicious crime problem. If the residents don't feel safe going to the gas station or the store, and sleeping with one eye open and a finger on the trigger, I really don't see this so called renaissance happening until that is controlled. I don't care about how cheap you can buy a house and all the other good things they are trying to promote. Crime is the main issue with schools a close second, if you have school aged children.