Casino planned near Metro Airport

**animatedmartian** · June-12-14, 03:37 AM

A Native American tribe from the UP are planning to build a casino at 275 and Sibley Road in Huron Township, a couple a miles south of Metro Airport. The same tribe is also planning a casino in Lansing which is farther along in the development process.

The three casinos in Detroit have already reported declining revenue since last year due to casinos opening in Ohio. Will two more closer casinos hurt Detroit's three even more and would it even make that much of a difference for the city?

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...be_target.html

**emu steve** · June-12-14, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...be_target.html

A Native American tribe from the UP are planning to build a casino at 275 and Sibley Road in Huron Township, a couple a miles south of Metro Airport. The same tribe is also planning a casino in Lansing which is farther along in the development process.

The three casinos in Detroit have already reported declining revenue since last year due to casinos opening in Ohio. Will two more closer casinos hurt Detroit's three even more and would it even make that much of a difference for the city?

Yes, the casino at 275/Sibley would [[hurt). Western Wayne County and Washtenaw County [[etc.) wouldn't come to Detroit to gamble, unless they wanted to come to Detroit for another reason...

Folks in Canton, Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, etc. have a short drive to that casino.

The Lansing casino will hurt the Soaring Eagle casino in Mt. Pleasant.

**Chicago48** · June-12-14, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...be_target.html

A Native American tribe from the UP are planning to build a casino at 275 and Sibley Road in Huron Township, a couple a miles south of Metro Airport. The same tribe is also planning a casino in Lansing which is farther along in the development process.

The three casinos in Detroit have already reported declining revenue since last year due to casinos opening in Ohio. Will two more closer casinos hurt Detroit's three even more and would it even make that much of a difference for the city?

Practically no casino anywhere in the US is "making money/profits". That's why Las Vegas has rides and big stage shows. The casinos built are cannabilizing. Same thing is happening in Illinois. But nobody cares. There's no new product under the sun that people can turn to to make money.

**guito13** · June-12-14, 09:16 AM

I live in Huron Township. I think most of us who live here do NOT want a Casino in our neighborhood. We enjoy the peace and quiet out here and that is why most of us moved here.

**emu steve** · June-12-14, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by guito13

I live in Huron Township. I think most of us who live here do NOT want a Casino in our neighborhood. We enjoy the peace and quiet out here and that is why most of us moved here.

I wonder how big the casino would be and how much traffic, etc.?

How big is the Toledo casino?

Would it be say 1/3 the size of a Detroit casino? No hotel? No entertainment to speak of?

**DetroitPlanner** · June-12-14, 10:40 AM

The Toledo Casino is pretty large. No it is not as big as a Detroit Casino, and does not have as many amenities. I visited once to check it out and it generally has fewer bars or eateries; it also does not take full advantage of its location on the river like the Windsor Casino does. There is no hotel, but there is one across the street. It is not downtown, but in a semi-industrial area just off of the I-75 bridge with access to the freeway. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Toled...nty,+Ohio&z=19
This access will impeade those who wish to walk from the Hotel to the Casino.

**motz** · June-12-14, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I wonder how big the casino would be and how much traffic, etc.?

How big is the Toledo casino?

Would it be say 1/3 the size of a Detroit casino? No hotel? No entertainment to speak of?

I can tell you that if they are trying to edge in on Detroit's 3, or Soaring Eagle with the Lansing location, they will need for it to be huge and basically a one-stop shop for gambling and entertainment.

More casinos is something I don't agree with at this point. Their business model isn't terribly sustainable and I really don't want to see a bunch of empty casinos littering the landscape like the suburban office buildings of yesterday.

**Detroitnerd** · June-12-14, 10:58 AM

They've been talking about building casinos out by the airport for almost 30 years now. It's always the same pitch: a "world-class" casino -- presumably with views of the airport on the buffet line ...

With casino revenues dwindling as they are, I don't see a gold rush happening any time soon ...

**Canadian Visitor** · June-12-14, 11:09 AM

I fail to understand how various governments didn't see this cannibalization coming and make more sensible arrangements.

Casino Windsor made money hand over fist initially for Ontario....but with the Detroit Casinos having opened its barely in the black.

I understand Detroit/Michigan looking across the river w/envy at the proverbial ATM; but there's a problem.

If the number of Casino visits is largely 'fixed' or increases only modestly with each new location, then you have to start factoring in much higher fixed costs per customer.

That drastically reduces profitability.

I think there was a sensible argument for one Detroit Casino, on the basis that some Americans don't have passports, and there would therefore be an under-served market one could tap.

However, what would have made sense to me; would be to make a partnership w/Casino Windsor to operate one location on each side of the border; and to offer revenue split for each side based on a mixture of volume of business and where the customers originate.

This would have seen Windsor's profit decline, but not as much; while Detroit would have picked up a notable share of revenue w/no-fixed costs [[as they would have been absorbed by Casino Windsor.

************

Casinos are not unique in this regard; the failure of governments to co-operate, share and emulate what works can sometimes be quite distressing.

One need not re-invent the wheel, literally or figuratively; whether that means revenue-sharing from a destination that is gov't owned [[or licensed) or whether that means partnering across borders [[local, regional and trans-national) it make more sense to co-operate in many cases that compete.

**motz** · June-12-14, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

I think there was a sensible argument for one Detroit Casino, on the basis that some Americans don't have passports, and there would therefore be an under-served market one could tap.

I think we could support two casinos, but three is a stretch. Gambling isn't something many people I know around my age [[20-30) make a point to do often, if more than once or twice a year. I go to drink a few beers and people watch. I might spend $10 on the slots, but the chances aren't very high.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-12-14, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

They've been talking about building casinos out by the airport for almost 30 years now. It's always the same pitch: a "world-class" casino -- presumably with views of the airport on the buffet line ...

With casino revenues dwindling as they are, I don't see a gold rush happening any time soon ...

You're not following recent case law on this. This is based upon an Indian Casino that was closed down and is being allowed to re-open off of the reservation in a town off I-75. http://www.freep.com/article/2014052...-casino-indian

In short, this decision has green lighted and opened up the ability for first nations to build casinos where-ever the heck they want. The Greektown was once operated by a branch of the Chips known as Keewadhin, however the company was awarded the casino through a legitimate mean where awards were scored with favor to those who were minorities and had brought the law into the ballot box [[Pappas). I still think Barden got screwed on this.

**Dan Wesson** · June-12-14, 11:14 AM

The gaming revenue is declining. The older Casinos are falling into a state of disrepair and the glitter is fading.

It's the new ones that will draw a crowd for awhile and the UP Tribes see the population downstate as an enticement. If you were them where would you put your new casino?

No one establishment stays on top unless they keep reinventing themselves or in the case of Casino's really loosen up the slots and pay out better than all the rest. Word will get around.

**animatedmartian** · June-12-14, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I wonder how big the casino would be and how much traffic, etc.?

How big is the Toledo casino?

Would it be say 1/3 the size of a Detroit casino? No hotel? No entertainment to speak of?

The site is 71 acres in size. That's basically from Sibley Road, down the railroad tracks to Huron Drive and just above the houses to the south. Though I imagine a decent chunk might be parking lot space [[especially the odd shaped top end of the site), however there's a lot of room to pretty much build anything. Compared to other casinos, it's about the same land area as the Soaring Eagle albeit slightly smaller because SE has a lot of open space around it. I think the tribe did state that it was going to be casino/resort style so it'll probably pretty similar to SE.

http://goo.gl/maps/Fcuam

The one they're building in Lansing doesn't look terribly big at all. Looks nice though. It leads me to believe they'd cram more amenities into the Huron Township casino.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKcRyxV7tQ

**Detroitnerd** · June-12-14, 11:29 AM

So casinos are following the trajectory of traditional malls, then? Sigh ... the only people this benefits is the building trades. Worse yet, casinos are pretty much your typical single-use structure. [[Unless you can get a government unit to come to the rescue, which is what happened in Detroit, likely with plenty of drawbacks, functionally speaking.) What do they become after they go bust?

Detroit: Making short-term gains for big problems tomorrow ...

**animatedmartian** · June-12-14, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

So casinos are following the trajectory of traditional malls, then? Sigh ... the only people this benefits is the building trades. Worse yet, casinos are pretty much your typical single-use structure. [[Unless you can get a government unit to come to the rescue, which is what happened in Detroit, likely with plenty of drawbacks, functionally speaking.) What do they become after they go bust?

Detroit: Making short-term gains for big problems tomorrow ...

Las Vegas was pretty famous for having many casinos and hotels demolished only to be replaced with newer ones. It seemed like there was a high rise hotel imploded every other year since the 90s. They basically just kept rebuilding them until they got to the current set of casinos that have remained successful if not somewhat unique.

**Gistok** · June-12-14, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I still think Barden got screwed on this.

I think Barden got exactly what he deserved... contempt!

He did everything including play the race card as a spoiled brat who boooo hoooo hoooo didn't get his casino license. He funded the despicable "Call em' out Coalition", that ran the ill fated Archer recall. CAY already made Barden a multi-millionaire, no one owed him anything towards trying to become a billionaire....

**Detroitnerd** · June-12-14, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Las Vegas was pretty famous for having many casinos and hotels demolished only to be replaced with newer ones. It seemed like there was a high rise hotel imploded every other year since the 90s. They basically just kept rebuilding them until they got to the current set of casinos that have remained successful if not somewhat unique.

Well, if they're all in one place, I think that works, but with all these casinos all spread out and fighting for the same clientele [[and taken together with our penchant for abandoning areas behind us and rebuilding in front of us) it doesn't bode well for us.

**Cliffy** · June-12-14, 02:38 PM

Their should be a moratorium on casinos in Michigan. Enough already. Just because you're native american, it doesn't mean you can build these parasite business' that help nobody but ruin many.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-12-14, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Their should be a moratorium on casinos in Michigan. Enough already. Just because you're native american, it doesn't mean you can build these parasite business' that help nobody but ruin many.

It certainly does. The supreme court has ruled. They are a sovereign nation that exists within the confines of the US.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-12-14, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Yes, the casino at 275/Sibley would [[hurt). Western Wayne County and Washtenaw County [[etc.) wouldn't come to Detroit to gamble, unless they wanted to come to Detroit for another reason....

I agree entirely. Casinos are so prevalent now [[not just in Michigan, although of course we have many), that they almost never attract visitors in and of themselves now. Even Vegas, still a major destination, has been tremendously hurt, with casinos needing to go "over-the-top" in either other attractions or in steep discounting [[if you seek off-peak weekdays, you can get CHEAP hotels and airfare for Vegas). I think further casino development will only cannibalize the existing casinos in Michigan. That said, I don't really favor using the government to stop reputable people from opening a casino, that complies with state laws and local zoning. I don't want the government saying, "there are too many restaurants, so let's not allow anyone else to open one." Some will fail, most will just make less money. That's business.

Getting to the other half of EMU Steve's point- people from outside of the inner ring 'burbs will only come to a Detroit casino if they're coming in for other reasons. That is true, and that is one of the real bonuses about urban casinos, both for the casino and the city. Instead of being isolated places where all your eating/drinking/sleeping/partying needs are done at one establishment, urban casinos can become something akin to other downtown businesses: a place to spend some time and money before or after doing something else. Most people who drive to a destination casino spend, I suspect, a long time at that casino. Detroit's casinos can [[and will) still seek the long-stretch players, including overnight guests. But they are much better positioned to get the short-term gamblers [[before or after a game, convention, dinner, work, concert, stroll around downtown, etc) than any other casinos in Michigan. That is why, I think, Dan Gilbert bought the GH&C in the first place.

**emu steve** · June-12-14, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I agree entirely. Casinos are so prevalent now [[not just in Michigan, although of course we have many), that they almost never attract visitors in and of themselves now. Even Vegas, still a major destination, has been tremendously hurt, with casinos needing to go "over-the-top" in either other attractions or in steep discounting [[if you seek off-peak weekdays, you can get CHEAP hotels and airfare for Vegas). I think further casino development will only cannibalize the existing casinos in Michigan. That said, I don't really favor using the government to stop reputable people from opening a casino, that complies with state laws and local zoning. I don't want the government saying, "there are too many restaurants, so let's not allow anyone else to open one." Some will fail, most will just make less money. That's business.

Getting to the other half of EMU Steve's point- people from outside of the inner ring 'burbs will only come to a Detroit casino if they're coming in for other reasons. That is true, and that is one of the real bonuses about urban casinos, both for the casino and the city. Instead of being isolated places where all your eating/drinking/sleeping/partying needs are done at one establishment, urban casinos can become something akin to other downtown businesses: a place to spend some time and money before or after doing something else. Most people who drive to a destination casino spend, I suspect, a long time at that casino. Detroit's casinos can [[and will) still seek the long-stretch players, including overnight guests. But they are much better positioned to get the short-term gamblers [[before or after a game, convention, dinner, work, concert, stroll around downtown, etc) than any other casinos in Michigan. That is why, I think, Dan Gilbert bought the GH&C in the first place.

As far as customers are concerned:

The group the [[proposed) new casino will draw off are the casual gamblers who want a short drive, to gamble for a couple hours, low stakes, and not interested in $250 lodging or a Tigers/Lion/Wings game, or other entertainment or expensive meals.

This is O/T, but the future of gambling growth is sports betting.

So long as Vegas [[Reno) has shows and a monopoly on sports betting [[warmer winter weather than the Midwest, etc. is a big seasonal plus) they have a unique market.

I don't think most non-sports fans [[bettors) appreciate the appeal of sports betting be it the Super Bowl, NFL games, college games, etc.

So the difference, TO ME, is not a smallish casino by 275 vs. a very nice Detroit casino [[I can play $10 blackjack at either), but the availability of sports betting in Vegas.

I believe Gov. Christie is trying to open up sports betting in his state much to the consternation of the NCAA and others [[I think NFL).

Any state which can implement sports betting has a big, big leg up. If it is Ohio [[Toledo), then folks will drive to Toledo to bet NFL, esp. Super Bowl, college games, NCAA tourney, MLB playoffs, etc. rather than play table games in Detroit or near Metro.

GUSHI · June-12-14, 07:29 PM

Sportsbook.com

**emu steve** · June-12-14, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

Sportsbook.com

Is it legal?

I always thought his type of gambling is illegal.

**SaintMe** · June-12-14, 08:25 PM

This is a TERRIBLE idea. This would be totally out of place in a rural area like Huron Twp. 3 casinos for metro Detroit are enough, it cannot support a 4th so far from the population center. I imagine citizens don't get a vote on this?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-12-14, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by SaintMe

This is a TERRIBLE idea. This would be totally out of place in a rural area like Huron Twp. 3 casinos for metro Detroit are enough, it cannot support a 4th so far from the population center. I imagine citizens don't get a vote on this?

I think the courts recently sharply reduced the state's ability to restrict Indian casino expansion. I believe that case involved the Lansing casino, but it's hard to imagine that case not being precedent for other Indian casinos.