The August SMART Tax Renewal to keep the buses Is Imaginary

[That Great Guy]

All funding and service and even the union bus driver jobs are fully protected by federal laws. This includes all State CTF funds and the City of Dearborn paying the full 0.59 mil and all of the other cities and all of Macomb County, if the tax increase is defeated.

A vote of YES is nothing but a tax increase. Yet, over 70 percent support this popular tax.

It is a myth this proposal will work to improve mass transit at this time, just like Santa Claus. No matter if you vote YES or NO. There are no elves at the North Pole making lots of new buses and trains for all you good boys and girls, if you vote YES.

I publicly challenged Mr. John Hertel to a debate and he declined. And for a good reason. He knows the truth that it will takes lots of hard work to make mass transit work and he instead wants to take the easy way out and just raise your taxes. That is why he will not debate me before next August.

If Lowell wants, I will come out publicly on this forum and we can all get Mr. Hertel to tell the public that all funds are protected. That is the most fare and honest and most safe way to improve our transportation system for everyone.

[Danny]

Trainman, Keep publishing those lies about regional transportation. The Tri-County Area need SMART for there are no other regional transit vehicles around like the subways to interurban light rail services. Seventy percent of the people will vote YES, YES, YES on the SMART bus millage. By the way, M.O.S.E.S. organization have plan a rally on June 17th for the millage. You should attend that rally and debate your lies there.

[DetroitPlanner]

Trainman, Keep publishing those lies about regional transportation. The Tri-County Area need SMART for there are no other regional transit vehicles around like the subways to interurban light rail services. Seventy percent of the people will vote YES, YES, YES on the SMART bus millage. By the way, M.O.S.E.S. organization have plan a rally on June 17th for the millage. You should attend that rally and debate your lies there.

LOL Let him have it Danny!

[nain rouge]

Your posts never fail to epically confuse me, Great Guy. You seem to write in an intentionally obtuse way. If what you say is true, how did cities like Livonia successfully opt out? Are they in fact in breach of Federal law?

[professorscott]

Your posts never fail to epically confuse me, Great Guy. You seem to write in an intentionally obtuse way. If what you say is true, how did cities like Livonia successfully opt out? Are they in fact in breach of Federal law?

Everything Great Guy says is completely false. It's a waste of time to try to get clarification from him. There is no Federal law or any other kind of law that requires any municipality to provide any public transportation whatever. The law says that if you choose to provide public transportation then you must follow a whole bunch of rules. In point of fact, if the millage is voted down in any county, then SMART service in that county comes to a sudden and abrupt end, period, end of story.

[motz]

I believe in Elves and would love to have my taxes raise. Bring on the tax increases, let's make Reagan roll around in his grave!

[DetroitPlanner]

Everything Great Guy says is completely false. It's a waste of time to try to get clarification from him. There is no Federal law or any other kind of law that requires any municipality to provide any public transportation whatever. The law says that if you choose to provide public transportation then you must follow a whole bunch of rules. In point of fact, if the millage is voted down in any county, then SMART service in that county comes to a sudden and abrupt end, period, end of story.

The only thing that is not false is that people refuse to debate him. It is because you can't debate with someone who does not have their facts straight.

[rex]

My question is who are you to make such claims? Are you someone who has something to do with something. Why should John Hertel debate you? Are you a politician, a community activist of reputable standing?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

That Great Guy, are you a Patsy Cline fan, by any chance?

[Danny]

By the way Great Guy! Mr Hertel might be at one of the rallies, too. You too can debate regional transit there.

[That Great Guy]

My question is who are you to make such claims? Are you someone who has something to do with something. Why should John Hertel debate you? Are you a politician, a community activist of reputable standing?

In 1995, this tax raised $17 Million to balance the SMART budget. The purpose was never meant to pay the entire operating budget or for new buses.

The 1.0 Mil tax which I'm sure will pass will never bring back SMART as it once was before 1995.

IF we raise a penny sales tax or raise the property tax to about 3.5, we would have a good public bus service similar to Ann Arbor but nothing like Chicago

Fighting for Federal and State fuel tax money for bus service is a lost cause without mass transit leadership which we don't have unless you like Governor Snyder's idea of tax your car registration fee.

So, we raise local taxes or privatize SMART and DDOT.

Mr Hertel should debate me because I want MDOT to pay to remove cars from roads using SMART buses

[DetroitPlanner]

It seems to me you should debate the State legislature. They are the only ones who can raise the sales tax or increase fuel tax money. Good luck getting a penny increase from those representing Ontagnogan for something that they will receive no benefit from!

[Danny]

In 1995, this tax raised $17 Million to balance the SMART budget. The purpose was never meant to pay the entire operating budget or for new buses.

The 1.0 Mil tax which I'm sure will pass will never bring back SMART as it once was before 1995.

IF we raise a penny sales tax or raise the property tax to about 3.5, we would have a good public bus service similar to Ann Arbor but nothing like Chicago

Fighting for Federal and State fuel tax money for bus service is a lost cause without mass transit leadership which we don't have unless you like Governor Snyder's idea of tax your car registration fee.

So, we raise local taxes or privatize SMART and DDOT.

Mr Hertel should debate me because I want MDOT to pay to remove cars from roads using SMART buses

You lie!!!

[That Great Guy]

You lie!!!

Read the entire ballot at the voting booth on August 5, 2014

The entire truth is written on it. Please copy and post it on this forum.

Then we will all see the truth about how the 1.0 Mil tax is not enough to pay for SMART or public bus service or community transit


I'm crossing out the 1 Mil and writing in 3 Mil. That too is not enough, so I will continue to fight for the rights of the handicapped and everyone. I will fight the federal and state cuts from the disabled and the elderly and the gross incompetence of running empty buses. We have the technology now to fill every one of them up and use electronics to increase user fees

Danny, I'm not against your choice for voting YES and think you care. But, the public bus service REDUCTIONS are wrong and they must be stopped or we will all pay more and more and it will never end, unless something is done about it.

So, google save the fuel tax org


Furthermore, I stand firmly by saying ALL funds and service are protected and YES I will post my real name on this forum if Lowell wants and in the newspapers and on television.

[Danny]

Read the entire ballot at the voting booth on August 5, 2014

The entire truth is written on it. Please copy and post it on this forum.

Then we will all see the truth about how the 1.0 Mil tax is not enough to pay for SMART or public bus service or community transit


I'm crossing out the 1 Mil and writing in 3 Mil. That too is not enough, so I will continue to fight for the rights of the handicapped and everyone. I will fight the federal and state cuts from the disabled and the elderly and the gross incompetence of running empty buses. We have the technology now to fill every one of them up and use electronics to increase user fees

Danny, I'm not against your choice for voting YES and think you care. But, the public bus service REDUCTIONS are wrong and they must be stopped or we will all pay more and more and it will never end, unless something is done about it.

So, google save the fuel tax org


Furthermore, I stand firmly by saying ALL funds and service are protected and YES I will post my real name on this forum if Lowell wants and in the newspapers and on television.

Here is my strong evidence why to Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties need its SMART bus serviced and the Millage:

Our roads don't pay pay for themselves. Neither do buses. SMART is paid for by a property tax [[millage) in participating cities. If you own a $100,000 home, the proposed millage would cost you $50 a year, less than two of gas. The current millage rate is $30 a year.


Due to loss of revenue, falling property values in the metro region forced steep cutbacks in SMART service, as well as cuts to SMART administration and concessions by unions. Most SMART buses have more than 500,000 miles on them, past their useful life. More funding is required to replace them.

We get transit service that we pay for. Metro Detroit currently invests only one-third the U.S. average on public transit. It's no surprise that we don't have much of it! We need more.


Sorry, Great Guy, My mind is made up. So don't feed me with information about the evils of regional transit. The SMART bus system lost 50 million dollars in revenues. The millage will save SMART from its transit collapse. Imagine, the Tri-County Area without regional transportation. Jobs will be lost, people stranded in isolated areas looking for alternative transportation. I don't want to live a city that you have to be forcefully drive a car. N.Y.C. is doing great and remains a cleaner greener city than Los Angeles thanks to mass regional transit. So What! The SMART bus system is not perfect, its bus drivers are sometimes cranky, late, buses break down, poorly maintained and cities want to opt out. However the system will continue to pick up and drop off its patrons to their destinations. You can run off your bad comments about the SMART Bus Millage, but you will not convince up to 75 percent of the people in the Tri-County Area to vote against the millage and you will never will!

[Danny]

Your posts never fail to epically confuse me, Great Guy. You seem to write in an intentionally obtuse way. If what you say is true, how did cities like Livonia successfully opt out? Are they in fact in breach of Federal law?

Yes, facist Livonia did violate federal law by duping its citizens to opt out SMART buses from their main roads. It's not because of the Super Wal-Mart proposal in former Wonderland Mall or its city council say that they don't have 3 million dollars to pay the Wayne County Transit Authority. It's a racist conspiracy from some concern Livonia resident that its once 99 percent white neighborhood is getting one black family moving across that street from its house. Give about 25 years Livonia will not be the 'whittest' suburb in Wayne County anymore.

[DetroitPlanner]

Trainman, there have been no cuts to transit at either the federal or state level. There is however the very real issue that the funds that supply it have decreased while the demand has increased.

1. Federal and State funding for transportation comes from the Gas Tax. The state also gets some revenue from its licencing of cars [[plates and tabs).

2. As gas becomes more expensive, people rely on alternatives to reduce the bite on their budget. They trade in their gas guzzler for more efficient vehicles, they carpool, they bike short distances, and they chain trips to use fewer miles and burn less gas.

3. The increase in the cost of gas over the last 10 years has not led to more revenues because gas taxes are ad volorem, meaning they are set by how much you purchase [[volume) unlike sales taxes which are a percentage of cost.

The feds or the state are not acting illegally. They are acting fiscally responsively. I will leave whether or not that this is responsible up for debate; particularly in light of what has been happening at the State level over road funds.

[That Great Guy]

Trainman, there have been no cuts to transit at either the federal or state level. There is however the very real issue that the funds that supply it have decreased while the demand has increased.

1. Federal and State funding for transportation comes from the Gas Tax. The state also gets some revenue from its licencing of cars [[plates and tabs).

2. As gas becomes more expensive, people rely on alternatives to reduce the bite on their budget. They trade in their gas guzzler for more efficient vehicles, they carpool, they bike short distances, and they chain trips to use fewer miles and burn less gas.

3. The increase in the cost of gas over the last 10 years has not led to more revenues because gas taxes are ad volorem, meaning they are set by how much you purchase [[volume) unlike sales taxes which are a percentage of cost.

The feds or the state are not acting illegally. They are acting fiscally responsively. I will leave whether or not that this is responsible up for debate; particularly in light of what has been happening at the State level over road funds.

I do not dispute this. The High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes HOV on I-75 in Oakland County, SEMCOG Studies and Amtrak all get the same federal and state money SMART used to get.

If Mr. John Hertel was SMART he would be removing cars from crowded roads using multiple revenue sources including CTF funds.

Instead Mr. John Hertel is SMART enough to raise $28 Million per year every year in permanent tax increases to avoid facing the TRUth that expanding freeways without a decent bus service will cost far more then the small tax increase he wants in the long run.

And this puts safety in last place by encouraging higher speeds, more cars and bigger trucks on our roads.

And with bus service not available 24 hours a day to downtown Detroit, mass transit will always SUCK in Detroit, even with rail service.

[DetroitPlanner]

I do not dispute this. The High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes HOV on I-75 in Oakland County, SEMCOG Studies and Amtrak all get the same federal and state money SMART used to get.

USED to is the key. MDOT SEMCOG and Amtrak are all operating with less. So is SMART.

There is no money fairy.

[That Great Guy]

USED to is the key. MDOT SEMCOG and Amtrak are all operating with less. So is SMART.

There is no money fairy.

That is why I'm protesting the Brooks Patterson Freeway.

Tax shifting from the fuel tax to property or sales puts the burden of paying more on the backs of the poor.

Yet, this August 5, 2014 we vote to increase our rent or property tax to get this big monster when electronic tolls can now raise Millions from people like Kwame Kilpatrick and Brooks Patterson.

Paying for SMART is as plain and simple as Black and White. We need to raise lots of money and NO more free ride.

I use SMART nearly everyday and I can pay for this myself.

If Mr. John Hertel can't remove cars from the roads then he should leave the transportation business to someone else. He can go flip burgers in my opinion since he won't fight to keep the full ten percent of the gas tax for existing bus service.

I'm very eager to debate him, NOW before his tax increase.

[That Great Guy]

Google save the fuel tax org

August 5, 2014 SMART Property Tax Increase

Your Choice

[DetroitPlanner]

Paying for SMART is as plain and simple as Black and White. We need to raise lots of money and NO more free ride.

I use SMART nearly everyday and I can pay for this myself.

If Mr. John Hertel can't remove cars from the roads then he should leave the transportation business to someone else. He can go flip burgers in my opinion since he won't fight to keep the full ten percent of the gas tax for existing bus service.

I'm very eager to debate him, NOW before his tax increase.

So Trainman wants to raise busfare to $5. You heard it here first!

[Dexlin]

Wait, isn't this straight-up libel? I think Lowell should call this clown on his challenge. This is seriously out of line.

[That Great Guy]

Tax shifting without a majority vote of the public for permanent funds is illegal and against the law. The Michigan Department of Transportation and local governments are both required to pay the full cost despite how you vote.


There is no evidence that proves more property taxes are needed for SMART.


There is very strong physical evidence a vote of NO caps the tax and is by far the best choice to put safety first, improve our transportation system for everyone and increase funding by forcing users to pay more

[That Great Guy]

Google

save the fuel tax org


Learn the facts and see the proof that voting NO means NO loss of funds and NO loss of bus service and NO loss of SMART union bus driver jobs.