Gilbert buying 4 NEW properties [[Bates Garage, 126 monroe) New High-Rise Possible

**SpartanDawg** · June-04-14, 02:16 PM

1.5 million for the site, and 900K for surrounding low-rise buildings on Broadway across the Z garage

https://twitter.com/JGallagherFreep/...68127690100736

https://twitter.com/JGallagherFreep/...67892393836546

**Mackinaw** · June-04-14, 02:26 PM

I see Gallagher got some other, more interesting bits of information following that EPIC, EARTHSHATTERING restaurant announcement.

Intriguing.

**southen** · June-04-14, 02:31 PM

new construction, in addition to the rehabilitation, is pretty exciting. not including the fail jail since that is all up in the air still, gilbert will be doing something on the bates site, building a residential structure in capitol park and the massive project at hudson's. itll be nice having some new structures going up, its been a long time.

**animatedmartian** · June-04-14, 02:55 PM

The three buildings on Broadway are the liquor store and two buildings to the right of it. [[my pic from last summer)

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-04-14, 02:58 PM

The "possiblity" of high-rise development is not really a very exciting statement.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014060...S06/306040166/

**animatedmartian** · June-04-14, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

The "possiblity" of high-rise development is not really a very exciting statement.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014060...S06/306040166/

It's probably a 99.9% possibility. At this point, there's not too many reasons that Gilbert wouldn't build a residential tower especially when it's something he's being saying downtown needs.

**Mackinaw** · June-04-14, 03:16 PM

Yeah, nor is the prospect of a garage next door to the National Theatre, even if it is as 'cool' as the Z-lot. Why the garage-first mentality? Build some buildings.

There should not be any DDA development agreements that allow only a garage, even a garage with retail. Perhaps the DDA was thinking just this with the Bates site, which is why there is going to be a high-rise there "at some point." The DDA/DEGC should also, for future reference [[though it's too late, really), consider breaking up large parcels. No need for new superblocks. Spread the opportunity and create a more interesting cityscape.

**stinkytofu** · June-04-14, 03:19 PM

This is more interesting than the restaurant announcements...

I'm legit excited about his purchase of the Broadway buildings. That stretch has tons of potential...linking Greektown with Foxtown. A lot seems to be planned and happy to hear those buildings will be next in line to get some TLC.

**animatedmartian** · June-04-14, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Why the garage-first mentality? Build some buildings.

People aren't going to move into buildings [[residential or commercial) without parking unless there's transit nearby that actually makes getting around without a car convenient. Unfortunately, Detroit still isn't at that point yet. Until then, parking garages are needed.

**stinkytofu** · June-04-14, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

People aren't going to move into buildings [[residential or commercial) without parking unless there's transit nearby that actually makes getting around without a car convenient. Unfortunately, Detroit still isn't at that point yet. Until then, parking garages are needed.

I know it is popular to bitch and moan about parking [[I do it as well), but fact is we do need more parking downtown. If there is a sensible development that includes ground floor retail [[like the Z lot) then I am "generally" fine with it. Of course, location is a factor as well...as in I wouldn't want a giant parking structure on the Hudson's site.

**ABetterDetroit** · June-04-14, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

The "possiblity" of high-rise development is not really a very exciting statement.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014060...S06/306040166/

Exciting maybe not, but a fascinating devolopment to watch? Absolutely! A brand new residential tower going up in the downtown would be a big sign of Detroits recovery and most importantly as a place to live. And huge benchmark if it's done like a normal private devolopment project in other places, acquire property, design and finance in privacy, permit publicly, than construct! In contrast to using the project as a carrot hanging from a stick.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-04-14, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Of course, location is a factor as well...as in I wouldn't want a giant parking structure on the Hudson's site.

There already is one!

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · June-04-14, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

People aren't going to move into buildings [[residential or commercial) without parking unless there's transit nearby that actually makes getting around without a car convenient. Unfortunately, Detroit still isn't at that point yet. Until then, parking garages are needed.

No matter how nice the apartment or office, you need parking. Otherwise it is not practical for most people to live or work there. Also, a parking garage can begin to generate revenue while the buildings it is meant to serve are still under construction. While some transit is on it's way [[and I am hugely supportive of M1Rail, BRT, and improvements to our bus system), Detroit is never going to be the kind of city where most people don't want or need a car. Detroit is Detroit, and even those of us who regularly use public transportation are still car people. Support for transit here can't grow if it's framed as an anti-car argument. Detroit will be the city of car people where there are alternatives to driving, not replacements for driving.

**emu steve** · June-05-14, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

No matter how nice the apartment or office, you need parking. Otherwise it is not practical for most people to live or work there. Also, a parking garage can begin to generate revenue while the buildings it is meant to serve are still under construction. While some transit is on it's way [[and I am hugely supportive of M1Rail, BRT, and improvements to our bus system), Detroit is never going to be the kind of city where most people don't want or need a car. Detroit is Detroit, and even those of us who regularly use public transportation are still car people. Support for transit here can't grow if it's framed as an anti-car argument. Detroit will be the city of car people where there are alternatives to driving, not replacements for driving.

I agree with these statements.

Even where public transit [[high quality public transit) hold fort it is, I presume, because it is more of a necessity than a 'desire'.

One factor which holds in a lot of big cities is that there is so much commercial activity [[e.g., employment) that folks would be crazy to drive there [[because of congestion or cost of parking or both). E.g., who would drive to Madison Square Garden?

Detroit isn't there yet and who knows when it will.

**SpartanDawg** · June-05-14, 06:53 AM

Update from Crains this morning. What's interesting is the DDA is including a clause with the Broadway buildings saying renovations must begin in 9 months and be completed within 2 years, and that construction of the parking garage/ building on top of it, on the Monroe site must begin within 18 months, AND include substantial ground floor retail!
With Gilbert the first floor retail wasn't a question anyways, he seems to know the things a city needs but it is also nice to see them putting time constraints on him forcing the construction to begin

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...roit-buildings

slow_motion · June-05-14, 07:29 AM

A mortgage guy "buying" different properties under individual LLCs isn't buying. There's literally zero risk to him what-so-ever. Every new Gilbert acquisition just means there's no competition to buy and moving forward, they'll be no competition when rental rates are established.

**stinkytofu** · June-05-14, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by slow_motion

Every new Gilbert acquisition just means there's no competition to buy and moving forward, they'll be no competition when rental rates are established.

Many of these buildings have sat empty for 20...30 years...and have been on the market for others to purchase the whole time. Would you prefer they continue to sit empty? I mean, c'mon...I have some Gilbert reservations myself, but at least he is stepping up, buying places, renovating them, and improving the cityscape.

slow_motion · June-05-14, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Many of these buildings have sat empty for 20...30 years...and have been on the market for others to purchase the whole time. Would you prefer they continue to sit empty? I mean, c'mon...I have some Gilbert reservations myself, but at least he is stepping up, buying places, renovating them, and improving the cityscape.

Again, a mortgage guy isn't really "buying" anything. He's borrowing free money to "buy" up everything... because there's no outside interest in any of these properties. That's not a good thing.

**mikeg19** · June-05-14, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by slow_motion

A mortgage guy "buying" different properties under individual LLCs isn't buying. There's literally zero risk to him what-so-ever. Every new Gilbert acquisition just means there's no competition to buy and moving forward, they'll be no competition when rental rates are established.

Would you rather have Mike Illitch buy em and let them sit for another 30 years? We didn't exactly see anyone chomping at the bit to buy these buildings.

Progress is good. I really don't care if Dan Gilbert buys 80% of downtown, this guy buys, renovates, populates. Simple as that. I haven't seen any instances of him letting anything languish or any of his investments/properties going belly up. Until something happens that is a disaster [[besides the questionable decorating themes), I'm giving this guy a pass.

And who cares if he is inheriting zero risk in these ventures? Isn't the point to mitigate risk and make money in any business? The guy isn't a billionaire because he is charitable. He's a savvy businessman. If he wants to buy downtown and fix it up while making money, have at it......

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-05-14, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by slow_motion

Again, a mortgage guy isn't really "buying" anything. He's borrowing free money to "buy" up everything... because there's no outside interest in any of these properties. That's not a good thing.

This is not correct. Thought the list is outdated, Gilbert and his companies are only doing a minority of projects in and around Downtown.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...Large-Projects

**Mackinaw** · June-05-14, 09:20 AM

Crain's notes that the developer of the Bates garage site is under no obligation to ever build anything other than a garage with retail. Disappointed in DDA's decision as to the best use of that site. Let's start aiming higher, no pun intended.

Can anyone point to any documentation that there isn't enough parking downtown? Even excluding surface lots and only counting garages and streets. I never have any problem. Now I can see the logic in requiring developers of new residential buildings to provide a certain number of new garage spots commensurate with new residential buildings, to facilitate a rise in downtown population, but parking for parking's sake seems illogical, besides sanctioning underutilization of key blocks. Had the DDA required parking AND residential/mixed use at the Bates site, I could see the logic and the merit. Requiring only parking...illogical and lacking in overall merit. Hopefully Gilbert, being Gilbert, gives us a high rises there anyway. Just remember, people, that's he's under no obligation to do so.

**Novine** · June-05-14, 11:13 AM

"Now I can see the logic in requiring developers of new residential buildings to provide a certain number of new garage spots commensurate with new residential buildings..."

Why? Is the existing parking in the area 100% utilized? If not, let the developers decide if they need the parking. If they don't think it's needed, why mandate it? Parking just adds to the construction costs and if done poorly, detracts from the overall value of the new development.

**jt1** · June-05-14, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Why? Is the existing parking in the area 100% utilized? If not, let the developers decide if they need the parking. If they don't think it's needed, why mandate it? Parking just adds to the construction costs and if done poorly, detracts from the overall value of the new development.

It makes no sense that most of the major parking decks in downtown are dedicated for municipal or business purposes and are 100% closed in the evenings. Perhaps the bigger issue is having parking decks dedicated to 9-5 business and closed evenings and weekends.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-06-14, 04:17 PM

Without a new 10 story garage with the "capacity" for something on top, where would one park in this area. I can't see any parking structures or lots in this pic.....

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...cture.php#more

**southen** · June-06-14, 05:43 PM

i think he has to put some sort of residential on this site. i still think he missed a huge opportunity not incorporating some into the z-lot. if he really wants a 24 hour district stretching from campus martius to greektown he needs to add residents to the area. im also hoping it is something more than just 4 additional levels on top.