Why Can't I Make a Left Turn From Michigan to Vernor?

[royce]

This has been a question that I have wanted someone [[mainly the powers that be) to answer for years. It makes no sense that to get to a supposedly busy street like "Vernor Highway," I have to turn down a side street [[16th in this case) to get to it. The answer lies in how the streets are configured in the area, obviously. The next question to ask is, "Why don't they [[the city) reconfigure the streets so that it's possible to make a left from Michigan Avenue to Vernor Highway. I know the intersection with 14th Street has a lot going on, but making a left at the intersection is not impossible.

As I see it, in order to make a left onto Vernor the eastbound lanes of Vernor need to become a two way. The westbound lanes would be closed at Michigan Avenue. As a result, some commercial/residential buildings could go up along that stretch down to 16th Street. Roosevelt Park would still exist but it would be behind these buildings.

Now, I know that priorities and or money is usually the motive as to why some things don't get done. However, now that this area is alive with activity from the businesses along that stretch of Michigan Avenue, it would seem logical that allowing a left turn at the said location would be the next step. If not for the convenience of motorists, at least for the possibility of spurring development in the area and eliminating a clusterf*** of roadage [[new word?).

[preserve]

What is so difficult about turning n 16th, doing the round onto Vernor? In some of our life times, there used to be a RR station and lots of traffic, and while that is no more, it's still not so difficult.
Someday Vernor going thru Roosevelt Park will be shut off completely and everyone will have to use 16th. That's the plan anyway.

[royce]

Preserve, when I get to most intersections and I see the street I want to turn down I make a left or right. Vernor is marked with signs at the intersection of Michigan/14th/Vernor [[Correction: After checking Google Earth's streetview, there actually aren't any sign indicating any of the streets at that intersection, which makes the intersection even worst for visitors trying to find Vernor). Now, if my destination is Vernor, then I expect to be able to turn there. If I am not from around here, I can't assume that the next street might get me to Vernor. So I might drive down past 16th not realizing that it can get me to Vernor. The last time I checked there aren't any signs that direct me to take 16th to get to Vernor.

My argument here is about being inconvenienced, not about the difficulty of a situation. The fact is that this is just one of several little inconveniences that makes up so much of Detroit. For example, people near the Joe Louis Arena like to park along Atwater and walk the RiverWalk. However, it is illegal to park there. Why have illegal parking when you want people to get out and enjoy the RiverWalk? Anyway, signs are posted,"No Parking." However, many people ignore the signs and park there anyway. If you're from out of town and you see all of these cars parked along there, you might park there thinking that it's OK because everybody else is doing it. However, the Detroit police [[DPD) might decide to crack down on violators that park there THAT day and the visitor gets a ticket and is now inconvenienced because they now have to pay a ticket.

Why in this town do we make things so inconvenient? Here's another example. Along Jefferson at the intersection of the tunnel, there are signs posted to pedestrians that they are prohibited from crossing at the light at that intersection to get to the west side of Jefferson. Instead the city wants pedestrians to cross Jefferson at a crosswalk in front of the RenCen at Brush, then walk west on Jefferson, and cross at Randolph or go up to Woodward to get to their destination, which could be Mariners Church or Hart Plaza. The problem is that people living here have always crossed at the tunnel entrance to get to the RenCen of points east of it. Why inconvenience pedestrians and have them walk farther to get to somewhere that they were used to getting to quicker? The reality is that people ignore those no crossing signs and cross at the tunnel entrance anyway. However, if DPD wanted to crack down, they could inconvenience people further by giving them a ticket for jaywalking.

Another inconvenience is at that same intersection. In 2001, with the Washington trolley tracks removed, the city, county, or state decided to add a turn lane to the tunnel, narrowing the sidewalk. It was narrowed to such a substantially degree that now when people walk along that stretch heading west, they literally have to walk one behind the other. How often do you like to walk behind someone when a second earlier you were side by side?

There are so many more instances that I can think of where the city will inconvenience people. Not being able to turn left at Vernor, when that's my destination is an inconvenience. Sure "I know" I can turn down 16th, but what about our out-of-town visitors. Don't we owe them a simple way to get around Detroit.

[Khorasaurus]

I'm with you, although I think the entire intersection should be converted to a traffic circle. There is plenty of space, especially with the park on the southwest corner. Maybe put the Robocop statue or another piece of art in the middle, looking down Michigan Ave.

Close the southbound lanes of Vernor and plant grass there, expanding the park. Make the northbound lanes of Vernor two-ways, and make 14th Street two ways south of the traffic circle [[to get rid of the weird current situation where the northbound lane just kind of ends at a parking lot).

It would make navigating that area a lot easier, plus it would create a cool focal point near the popular businesses there.

[DetroitPlanner]

I'm with you, although I think the entire intersection should be converted to a traffic circle. There is plenty of space, especially with the park on the southwest corner. Maybe put the Robocop statue or another piece of art in the middle, looking down Michigan Ave.

Close the southbound lanes of Vernor and plant grass there, expanding the park. Make the northbound lanes of Vernor two-ways, and make 14th Street two ways south of the traffic circle [[to get rid of the weird current situation where the northbound lane just kind of ends at a parking lot).

It would make navigating that area a lot easier, plus it would create a cool focal point near the popular businesses there.

In order to put in a traffic circle the entire intersection would need to be reworked and buildings would need to come down. Do you want to see Slows or the burger joint gone? In addition, many streets leading into that intersection are one way and this would confuse those using a traffic circle even more.

This intersection is fairly complicated with a lot of turning movements that need some kind of regulation. There are two ways of doing this. One is the traffic circle, the other is posting signs. I don't see is as an inconvenience to go down to Wabash and turn left. Especially if it leads to less traffic crashed and the possibility of fewer major injuries or deaths. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Slows...slows&t=h&z=19

[EastsideAl]

This intersection has been laid out this way as long as I've been driving in Detroit, which is just a little short of 40 years now. I suspect it was that way long before that too. I don't see it as inconvenient in any real way, except that it could do with a sign telling drivers to turn left at 16th to get to Vernor [[in fact, I'm sure there used to be such a sign, but like a lot of signs in the city it seems to have disappeared and there is probably no budget to replace it).

That wide Roosevelt Park section of Vernor there was designed when Vernor Hwy. was put together out of previously existing streets to connect the old High St. section to the old Dix Rd. section. The building of Roosevelt Park gave an appropriately grand entrance to the station, and the wide median served as a right-of-way for streetcars leading to a turnaround in front of the depot. Configuring Vernor this way gave crosstown traffic access to both the station and the Western Market that used to stand just north of Michigan Ave. nearby. When the Fisher Freeway was built along the Vernor right-of-way it allowed traffic to move directly onto Vernor from the freeway.

[EastsideAl]

Here's another example. Along Jefferson at the intersection of the tunnel, there are signs posted to pedestrians that they are prohibited from crossing at the light at that intersection to get to the west side of Jefferson. Instead the city wants pedestrians to cross Jefferson at a crosswalk in front of the RenCen at Brush, then walk west on Jefferson, and cross at Randolph or go up to Woodward to get to their destination, which could be Mariners Church or Hart Plaza.

The reason for that wasn't to inconvenience people, or to give people tickets for jaywalking. It was because that was both one of the most dangerous intersections for pedestrians in the city and a serious traffic bottleneck at certain times of day and on weekends.

And... "west side" of Jefferson?? This isn't Macomb County.

[Ray1936]

Something to chew on. In the entire Las Vegas metro area, there is not a "No Left Turn" sign to be found, except those to keep you from going the wrong way on a one-way street [[rare). If I only had a buck for every "No Left Turn" sign in metro Detroit........sigh.

[Wesley Mouch]

Something to chew on. In the entire Las Vegas metro area, there is not a "No Left Turn" sign to be found, except those to keep you from going the wrong way on a one-way street [[rare). If I only had a buck for every "No Left Turn" sign in metro Detroit........sigh.

But what you do get in LV is two left turn lanes turning at same time. I can't think of any Detroit instances... well maybe that new West Coast style intersection beneath Detroit Industrial Freeway and Telegraph Road.