"white folks created the ghetto": racist housing policy in chicago, detroit also?

[gvidas]

Check out this 10-minute video about the Contract Buyer's League, via The Atlantic. It describes a movement organized '68 in Chicago in protest against exploitative housing contracts. In short, federal policies prevented black people from getting mortgages. Seeing a captive market, speculators bought houses and "sold" them to black families at double the price, under contract terms where after any default on payment the property would return to the seller's possession.

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/ind...buyers-league/

Sounds a lot like what we call "buying on land contract." Am I jumping to conclusions, or did this happen here also?

[mwilbert]

There was extensive redlining in Detroit, and so people had to use land contracts since normal mortgage financing was often not available. Whether the land contracts themselves were abusive is arguable. Certainly the redlining wasn't done by blacks. But I would argue this was only a small part of the creation of ghettos--large parts of Detroit had deed restrictions, and of course real estate agents did a lot of steering as well. And differences in economic opportunities were and still are the biggest issue.

[iheartthed]

If you're interested in this subject, I highly recommend that you read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Some-Best-Frie.../dp/0143123637

[believe14]

White people feared unfit southern blacks, who came north with no skills, no education, no work ethic and lacking social norms. Southern trash didn't work, committed crimes and destroyed their neighborhoods. Good blacks were unfortunately lumped in with the unfit blacks, so whites feared them all.

[iheartthed]

White people feared unfit southern blacks, who came north with no skills, no education, no work ethic and lacking social norms. Southern trash didn't work, committed crimes and destroyed their neighborhoods. Good blacks were unfortunately lumped in with the unfit blacks, so whites feared them all.

Thanks for helping understand why white people are racist.

[FbO Vorcha]

Also, there's a helluva lot of southern whites that moved to Detroit for auto jobs, and they brought their racism with them.

[EastsideAl]

Sounds a lot like what we call "buying on land contract." Am I jumping to conclusions, or did this happen here also?

Something like this happened in pretty much every city in the country, as the FHA automatically redlined every neighborhood in the country with a significant black population, causing the banks to follow suit. In order to buy a home, blacks had to buy at inflated prices, on shady contracts, paying extra high interest rates, with no federal guarantee and and no protection under defaults.

This had the unintended consequence of "block busting", as real estate and mortgage brokers [[often the same people or in alliance) came to see blacks as a more lucrative market than working-class and middle-class white in older urban neighborhoods. So they used scare tactics and insinuation to buy low from white sellers and sell high to black buyers under just these sorts of contracts.

[iheartthed]

Something like this happened in pretty much every city in the country, as the FHA automatically redlined every neighborhood in the country with a significant black population, causing the banks to follow suit. In order to buy a home, blacks had to buy at inflated prices, on shady contracts, paying extra high interest rates, with no federal guarantee and and no protection under defaults.

This had the unintended consequence of "block busting", as real estate and mortgage brokers [[often the same people or in alliance) came to see blacks as a more lucrative market than working-class and middle-class white in older urban neighborhoods. So they used scare tactics and insinuation to buy low from white sellers and sell high to black buyers under just these sorts of contracts.

Exactly. Also, since black buyers couldn't get financing from banks they either had to pay cash for the houses, or get financed through non-traditional financing entities that charged higher interest rates. The discriminatory policies ended up creating a racket.

[ABetterDetroit]

Anyone can admit that's it's ironic that a housing meltdown caused the largest integration of people of all races throughout the Detriot metro area.

Racist assholes that used communities to divide us have witnessed those barriers crumble greatly, LOL, I think that's awesome!

[Dan Wesson]

Government policy and societal circumstances create ghettos. It's done this way the world over and throughout history.

Red lining and predatory behavior by realtors did not create ghettos it is government policy that enabled red lining and predatory behavior by realtors.

It is also governmental policy that created the free shit army and keeps them there, below the poverty level cash wise. But what is interesting is that if you can take advantage of all the assistance available it exceeds a $60,000 income.

This ain't just a black/ white issue it's a national issue. I see perfectly good areas everywhere deteriorating because of a government subsidized population perfectly happy to be poor and worse, slovenly, with no interest in taking the high road concerning life and property.

[believe14]

Why do people ignore the crime statistics of the black ghettos? It wasn't pure racism, it was fear of the crime and unfit behavior. If it was purple people committing all of this crime and standing on the corners causing trouble, they would have redlined purple people. It's not rocket science.

[SDCC]

Why do people ignore the crime statistics of the black ghettos? It wasn't pure racism, it was fear of the crime and unfit behavior. If it was purple people committing all of this crime and standing on the corners causing trouble, they would have redlined purple people. It's not rocket science.

Each post reveals a bit more, or each post is more telling...

[canuck]

Wow. "The Thin Red Line" vs "The Color Purple."

[Dan Wesson]

Crime is the prime reason for me to vacate. I lived amongst it and made the decision that my kids didn't have to.

It takes money or gonads to leave. Relying on the government dole doesn't help with either of those. Unless it becomes a government policy. Section 8 housing comes to mind. Whether you know it or not it has become a directive to disperse a class of people to dilute and assimilate if possible, another social experiment.

The dole is another form of slavery.

[Wesley Mouch]

Government policy and societal circumstances create ghettos. It's done this way the world over and throughout history.

Red lining and predatory behavior by realtors did not create ghettos it is government policy that enabled red lining and predatory behavior by realtors.

It is also governmental policy that created the free shit army and keeps them there, below the poverty level cash wise. But what is interesting is that if you can take advantage of all the assistance available it exceeds a $60,000 income.
...snip...

Dan, that's a fascinating graph. Well-intentioned government policy = a permanent ghetto. We need to find a better social safety net. One that doesn't reward sloth.

I always had blamed the realtors -- but you are right. It wasn't the realtors that created the system. It was the welfare-entitlement complex that was the real problem.

[Dan Wesson]

Dan, that's a fascinating graph. Well-intentioned government policy = a permanent ghetto. We need to find a better social safety net. One that doesn't reward sloth.

I always had blamed the realtors -- but you are right. It wasn't the realtors that created the system. It was the welfare-entitlement complex that was the real problem.

What's real interesting is the $0 on the wages axis on the left, follow that up and you get $46,000 of possible "Free" benefits if your only work is to work the system and you get plenty of "Free" help to do that.

[mwilbert]

Dan, that's a fascinating graph. Well-intentioned government policy = a permanent ghetto. We need to find a better social safety net. One that doesn't reward sloth.

I always had blamed the realtors -- but you are right. It wasn't the realtors that created the system. It was the welfare-entitlement complex that was the real problem.

Of course, the idea that social welfare programs created the ghettos is nonsense. There were plenty of ghettos in the US, including in Detroit, before there were significant social welfare programs. It was, in fact, the realtors, and the FHA, and pervasive discrimination against non-whites.

It is true, on the other hand, that the way we administer social programs in this country does result in lots of low income people who face very high effective tax rates [[from lost benefits as their incomes increase) as well as the occasional "cliff". This is a well-known problem, and the appropriate solution is universal benefit programs. For instance, if you look at the linked graph [[which I would take with a grain of salt as Zerohedge is a completely unreliable source, though I am not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with this particular information) you can see what a big portion of the negative incentives comes from loss of subsidized childcare as family income rises. We should have universal preschool, starting at a very young age, both to improve educational outcomes and to improve maternal participation in the workforce. Then that portion of the negative incentives to work would disappear.

Socialist hellhole France, which has such programs, also has higher prime-age [[25-54) workforce participation than the US, mostly because more women with children find is financially advantageous to work.

[believe14]

Each post reveals a bit more, or each post is more telling...

Why is everyone ignoring the black crime, illiteracy and single parent rate epidemics? Nobody wants to live by unfit people, regardless of race. Obviously and unfortunately racism occurred when scared whites viewed any and all blacks like the unfit ones; but to ignore that a large number of unfit southern trash [[both black and white) didn't migrate and destroy Detroit is bologna. You go do a case study on the current unfit in Detroit. I will guarantee you most of them haven't had a full time employed parent or grand parent in their family tree, going all the way back to Mississippi or Alabama. You're talking three and four generations of unfit people. That is what brought Detroit down.

[believe14]

It's just sad to see folks act like there is some conspiracy to keep black people down. Please tell me how Asians, Cubans and Nigerians are doing so well in this country. Nobody wants to keep black people down. People that exhibit socially unfit behavior generation after generation are doomed. Schools can't help, government handouts won't help.

[missn]

Sorry, but Northern whites were fully capable of being prejudiced without help from Southerners.

[Danny]

While White folks in Chicago were trying to contain Black folks in the West and South Side from the 1940s to the 1970s. White folks in Detroit contain Blacks in the Lower East and West side from 1920s to 1967.

In Detroit the way to contain Black folks is restrictive covenants, racial steering and the pointe system.

In Chicago the way to contain Black folks is mortgage redlining, restrictive covenenants and racial steering.

The documentary was right folks! White folks did create 'Black ghetto-hoods.'

It's sound racist. But I'm the one is not acting like it.

[believe14]

"White folks" tried to contain the violence and unfit behavior to certain areas of their respective cities. Chicago did this flawlessly. Detroit failed miserably. In 2014 which city is kicking Detroit's ass? Exactly.

[erikd]

It's just sad to see folks act like there is some conspiracy to keep black people down. Please tell me how Asians, Cubans and Nigerians are doing so well in this country. Nobody wants to keep black people down. People that exhibit socially unfit behavior generation after generation are doomed. Schools can't help, government handouts won't help.

Is this thread for real? Did I accidentally log on to KKKyes.com instead of Detroityes.com?

Believe14,
Your racist mindset and willful ignorance is repugnant.

I can't even begin to comprehend the profound stupidity that would make a person publicly state that "folks act like there is some conspiracy to keep black people down" and "nobody wants to keep black people down."

The is/was a conspiracy in this country to keep black people down. Ever hear of slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, and "whites only" restrictions? These are not imagined things. All of these these things actually happened, and they were part of the laws and systems that were created for the express purpose of keeping black people down.

Only the most ignorant and bigoted person would assert that the negative social issues and inequalities which disproportionally impact black Americans are simply the result of "people that exhibit socially unfit behavior generation after generation."

[erikd]

Crime is the prime reason for me to vacate. I lived amongst it and made the decision that my kids didn't have to.

It takes money or gonads to leave. Relying on the government dole doesn't help with either of those. Unless it becomes a government policy. Section 8 housing comes to mind. Whether you know it or not it has become a directive to disperse a class of people to dilute and assimilate if possible, another social experiment.

The dole is another form of slavery.

Dan,

Do you have any idea of how offensive, racist, disrespectful, and ignorant you sound?

How dare you say that "the dole is another form of slavery?"

Do you think that senior citizens collecting Social Security checks and receiving Medicare coverage are "on the dole?"

Do you think that laid-off workers who are collecting unemployment benefits are "on the dole?"

Have you, or one of your family members, ever received unemployment, food stamps, Social Security, or Medicare benefits?

Do you really think that getting food stamps or a social security check is "another form of slavery?"

I have been working full time since I was 18 years old, except for a few months in my early 20s after I was laid off and couldn't find a job.

I have been fortunate to have never been a slave, or subjected to forced servitude, but I feel pretty confident in saying that the 6 months that I was unemployed, and collecting government unemployment checks "on the dole" wasn't anything like slavery. My grandmother collected Social Security benefits for years, as as far as I could tell, her experience wasn't anything like slavery either.

You may not realize it, but the vast majority of people in America who are "on the dole" are white people.

I guess we should forget about all that reality stuff, and just vilify any black person who receives government benefits. because it's just another form of slavery if a black person benefits from the program.

You should really read a few books and watch some documentaries about slavery in America, because you obviously have no appreciation or comprehension of how horrific the experience actually was. If you had even the slightest bit of compassion, empathy, or basic respect for other human beings, you would never dare to equate the horrors of slavery with your political disagreement of how government benefits should be apportioned.

[believe14]

Is this thread for real? Did I accidentally log on to KKKyes.com instead of Detroityes.com?

Believe14,
Your racist mindset and willful ignorance is repugnant.

I can't even begin to comprehend the profound stupidity that would make a person publicly state that "folks act like there is some conspiracy to keep black people down" and "nobody wants to keep black people down."

The is/was a conspiracy in this country to keep black people down. Ever hear of slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, and "whites only" restrictions? These are not imagined things. All of these these things actually happened, and they were part of the laws and systems that were created for the express purpose of keeping black people down.

Only the most ignorant and bigoted person would assert that the negative social issues and inequalities which disproportionally impact black Americans are simply the result of "people that exhibit socially unfit behavior generation after generation."

My mother is white and my dad is black, so your childish and tired tactics to shut down the conversation aren't applicable to me.

Jim Crow was 60 years ago, mostly in the south and didn't force black people to act unfit. Stop with the excuses and address unfit behavior of those in Detroit, a city with a black majority for several decades. People, both black and white, left Detroit because the writing was on the wall. The city was being taken over by an unfit majority, nobody wanted their families around. Who the hell can blame them? I wouldn't send my landscaper's kids to Detroit Public Schools. I suppose other Michigan cities like Flint, Saginaw and Benton Harbor have the same "man" keeping everyone down in 2014 too, huh? Please stop.

I want the region to prosper just as much as you, but until people stop trying to deflect blame and accountability, nobody is going to give the region another chance.