Same old don't-give-a-shit DPD. Let's taggers walk scott free.

**brizee** · May-21-14, 01:01 PM

It's just Detroit.
They're just vandals.
It's only quality of life.

I have a HARD time believing the donut chompers would be satisfied with this exact same police response in THEIR communities.

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2014/05/20/surveillance-detroit-police-let-go-graffiti-vandal-who-spray-painted-occupied-building/

**aj3647** · May-21-14, 06:13 PM

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've seen recently how people don't like it when the cops actually do enforce laws [[Belle Isle), so maybe DPD are just trying to give the people what they want.

**downtownguy** · May-22-14, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've seen recently how people don't like it when the cops actually do enforce laws [[Belle Isle), so maybe DPD are just trying to give the people what they want.

Not even close to the same thing, ag3647. Not even close.

**jt1** · May-22-14, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've seen recently how people don't like it when the cops actually do enforce laws [[Belle Isle), so maybe DPD are just trying to give the people what they want.

5 over is the same as malicious destruction of property? Is 20 over the same as murder?

**erikd** · May-23-14, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've seen recently how people don't like it when the cops actually do enforce laws [[Belle Isle), so maybe DPD are just trying to give the people what they want.

You mean the 20 people who showed up to protest the increased law enforcement on Belle Isle? If only 20 people are upset enough to show up for a protest that every local media outlet was covering live, then it means that there aren't really that many people who are actually upset about it.

Last year, we had about 10 times as many people show up to oppose the demolition permit for the State Savings Bank building, and that was barely covered by the media.

believe14 · May-23-14, 07:54 AM

Everybody knows DPD doesn't solve crimes. They basically direct traffic for concerts and sporting events... oh, and bust losers for petty possession and guys behind on their child support for the camera in the HUGE RAIDS! But yeah, build a trolley. That'll solve everything.

**DetroitHabitater** · May-25-14, 11:40 PM

DPD does not do their jobs.

Source: I am a Resident/Property owner in Detroit

**brizee** · May-27-14, 11:06 AM

Police aren't trained to ticket graffiti vandals....

I would have had my teeth smacked out of my mouth if I gave my dad an excuse that shitty growing up.

TPTB really have no respect at all for the people that live in Detroit.

**bailey** · May-27-14, 11:17 AM

In their defense, from the article, this appears to be an issue with the prosecutor's office as well as DPD. I mean DPD making arrests isn't going to solve an issue if the Prosecutors are not pursuing charges.

**Scottathew** · May-27-14, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We've seen recently how people don't like it when the cops actually do enforce laws [[Belle Isle), so maybe DPD are just trying to give the people what they want.

I agree with AJ. People are all up in arms when police start enforcing laws. They've got people complaining both that they're too "oppressive" and also don't go after non-violent vandalisms.

**jt1** · May-27-14, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

I agree with AJ. People are all up in arms when police start enforcing laws. They've got people complaining both that they're too "oppressive" and also don't go after non-violent vandalisms.

It depends how they are compared: As for being oppressive, if they are stopping people like mad for going 5 over I think that is a bit of a reach.

Of course, claiming vandalism is non-violent is technically correct but it also leads to the belief that anyone can do anything. I'd rather have people driving 5 over on BI than tagging buildings.

But....the point was made previously that they are difference forces with different orders. I'd prefer rigorous enforcement of all laws as opposed to no enforcement of anything.

The DPD claim that they don't know how to handle this is BS. Claiming is is building enforcement issue is BS. The tagger is maliciously destroying property which is a crime. That is handled by DPD. Building code issues are very different.

Just more DPD talking out their behind when caught ignoring crime.

**Honky Tonk** · May-27-14, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

Police aren't trained to ticket graffiti vandals....

I would have had my teeth smacked out of my mouth if I gave my dad an excuse that shitty growing up.

TPTB really have no respect at all for the people that live in Detroit.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, We must've had the same Father........

**Scottathew** · May-27-14, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

The DPD claim that they don't know how to handle this is BS. Claiming is is building enforcement issue is BS. The tagger is maliciously destroying property which is a crime. That is handled by DPD. Building code issues are very different.

I agree with you 100% on this point.

**aj3647** · May-27-14, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

5 over is the same as malicious destruction of property? Is 20 over the same as murder?

Who said anything about "five over" except you? I have not seen complaints of "excessive and aggressive policing" on Belle Isle restricted to just warnings issued for going 5 MPH over the speed limit. I've seen many people here bitching about everything from people with outstanding warrants being arrested to the simple fact that some of the officers policing Belle Isle have the wrong skin color.

Nice to know that graffiti is where you draw the line but speeding is OK to ignore. Speaking of the graffiti that you hate so much, do you think incidents of tagging have gone UP or DOWN on Belle Isle since effective policing was instituted?

**Embee** · May-28-14, 07:06 PM

I read in an article recently that all the police can do is issue a ticket for it...how is that possible? Is it not considered an arrestable crime in Michigan?

**SWMAP** · May-29-14, 09:19 AM

If you examine the issue from the DPD perspective you can see that there are problems:

1. How is the officer to tell if the markings in question are "street art" and to be reverenced in the opinion of many posters here, or just grafitti? Will the prosecutor and the Judge agree with the P.O.'s artistic evaluation. If not, that's a lot of processing time down the drain.
2. Is the marked-up site owned by anyone? Else - how, who to bring charges? if in tax default - how, who will support charges?
3. What sort of ordinance is being violated? is it a street ticket? How will the ticket stick? Do you believe that taggers have I.D. on them which they will submit to an officer when he/she takes out the ticket book?
If the tagger won't accept a ticket - what then? If the site is nobody's and nobody is complaining - what should the DPD and the Judge do? Should the tagger be detained in already crowded detention centers? What do you suggest?

So, just by thinking this through, we can see that the street officer would really have a hard time and would need a LOT of training to get to any success level at all.

I do see that tagging highway overpasses, as is becoming more common, would easily be seen to be illegal - but again - what is the ticket?

**mikefmich** · May-29-14, 10:26 AM

Trained? Not trained? One now needs graffiti sensitivity training or something?
Arrest.....write a citation, et. al. Cops don't know how to do this?

I'd like to hope "not trained" comment was something misunderstood, taken out of context somehow, etc etc. Just the thought of it hurts my head.

If that was actually a verbatim quote & accurate....well now my head really hurts.

Detroit will never be a viable place to live again until the cops.....and enough of them......enforce all laws.

**Honky Tonk** · May-30-14, 10:16 AM

What does everyone think? I think it's a work of art.

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...ecent-opening/

**rex** · May-30-14, 11:20 AM

by and large i dont care about graffiti but i will agree that some guys who dont belong anywhere outside of a notebook are making an awful mess on things that should be left untouched.

**davewindsor** · May-30-14, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

If you examine the issue from the DPD perspective you can see that there are problems:

1. How is the officer to tell if the markings in question are "street art" and to be reverenced in the opinion of many posters here, or just grafitti? Will the prosecutor and the Judge agree with the P.O.'s artistic evaluation. If not, that's a lot of processing time down the drain.
2. Is the marked-up site owned by anyone? Else - how, who to bring charges? if in tax default - how, who will support charges?
3. What sort of ordinance is being violated? is it a street ticket? How will the ticket stick? Do you believe that taggers have I.D. on them which they will submit to an officer when he/she takes out the ticket book?
If the tagger won't accept a ticket - what then? If the site is nobody's and nobody is complaining - what should the DPD and the Judge do? Should the tagger be detained in already crowded detention centers? What do you suggest?

So, just by thinking this through, we can see that the street officer would really have a hard time and would need a LOT of training to get to any success level at all.

I do see that tagging highway overpasses, as is becoming more common, would easily be seen to be illegal - but again - what is the ticket?

Is this sarcasm? If not, I don't get their reasoning. I don't know why this would be so complicated for the police. Here in Windsor, there is one catch all offense they charge someone with. If you commit vandalism, spray graffitti, smash a window, get caught scrapping metal, get caught with a weapon, police can charge offenders with one catch all offense called "mischief"--section 430 of the criminal code.

If someone refuses to reveal their identity, that's another offense they can be charged with--obstruction of justice--so it's in their best interest to reveal their identity. And usually all the police needs to do is scan their fingerprints and they know who it is. Usually, they are repeat offenders and will already be in the system. If not, then if they've ever applied for welfare, they have to submit their fingerprints so it will be in the database anyway. So, it's not a hard thing for the police to process.

If a detention center is crowded, it gets crowded even more; at that point, it's no longer the responsibility of the police. The police officer's job is the enforce the law. That's it. It's up to the judge to release them on their own recognizance, grant bail, etc. if the detention centers are overcrowded. And I would think that it's the mayor's responsibility to issue a public statement that he'll see to it that police letting taggers go will no longer be tolerated.