M-1 to break ground this summer

**emu steve** · May-20-14, 04:08 AM

And Woodward rebuilt from Adams to W. Grand Blvd. That's a big job.

Hell, I'm excited about the new concrete.

And, of course, the new arena should break ground, I'd think, before fall.

Lot of excitement coming.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...eaking-Detroit

believe14 · May-20-14, 07:16 AM

boondoggle: a project that is considered a useless waste of both time and money.

- 7 years to "develop"
- Originally going to be 9 miles, now it's only 3.3
- $140M price not even totally secured at this point
- Detroit buses are rolling violent crime hubs

Are Gilbert and Penske's egos too big to just walk away from this joke? With Lyft, Uber and Zipcar popping onto the landscape the past year or two, this is even more pointless than it always has been. Spending $140M to fail damages the rep of Detroit far more than walking away from this now. To save face simply buy a few top of the line natural gas buses to run this line for $700,000 each and call it a day. And maybe give $1M to DPD for a dozen officers dedicated to Woodward corridor for the next two years. There ya go, I just saved these guys $137M and the embarrassment to the region if they follow through on this.

**Bham1982** · May-20-14, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by believe14

boondoggle: a project that is considered a useless waste of both time and money.

-7 years to "develop"
-Originally going to be 9 miles, now it's only 3.3
-$140M price not even totally secured at this point
-Detroit buses are rolling violent crime hubs

It's a circus choo-choo train, conceived and funded by people with zero knowledge in transportation planning or urban planning.

When it fails I guarantee the excuse will be same as People Mover- "it's a great project, it just needs to grow even bigger and costlier, THEN it will be a success".

**DTWflyer** · May-20-14, 07:34 AM

I will say there is a need for something to help improve and connect the downtown and midtown areas. We have a significant number of younger employees that live up in Midtown, but still have to DRIVE to the Ren-Cen. They find it silly in comparison to other major cities. This is a step in the right direction to help fix the core.

**Bham1982** · May-20-14, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

We have a significant number of younger employees that live up in Midtown, but still have to DRIVE to the Ren-Cen. They find it silly in comparison to other major cities. This is a step in the right direction to help fix the core.

Not one person in Midtown will have an easier transit commute downtown.

We already have buses, running at a more frequent schedule than the planned trolley, so anyone living in Midtown and working in the RenCen [[all 12 of them) can take the bus, like the other 90,000 D-Dot riders [[who will all have worse service due to the trolley, but no one cares because this toonerville trolley is being built with the impression it serve as a stadium/bar shuttle and maybe will attract a few 20-something white kids from Shelby Twp. into the city for a few years).

believe14 · May-20-14, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

I will say there is a need for something to help improve and connect the downtown and midtown areas. We have a significant number of younger employees that live up in Midtown, but still have to DRIVE to the Ren-Cen. They find it silly in comparison to other major cities. This is a step in the right direction to help fix the core.

You're a white collar GM employee that lives in midtown? That drive to GM HQ is a couple of miles and takes maybe fifteen minutes? For shame. Furthermore, you can't afford to lease a tiny Chevy Sonic for $150/month employee pricing?

**Bham1982** · May-20-14, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by believe14

You're a white collar GM employee that has to drive a couple of miles over what is a fifteen minute commute to work? For shame. Furthermore, you work at HQ and can't afford to lease a tiny Chevy Sonic for $150/month employee pricing?

DDOT runs buses every few minutes down Woodward from Midtown, at a higher frequency than the planned Gilbertville Trolley. There is not one person currently living in Midtown who can't take public transit downtown.

The GM HQ employment base is heavily engineers and executives living in family-oriented sprawlburbs anyways. If the intent of regional transit policy were to get GM HQ workers riding transit, you would have to run a line from Northville or Novi.

believe14 · May-20-14, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

...this toonerville trolley is being built with the impression it serve as a stadium/bar shuttle and maybe will attract a few 20-something white kids from Shelby Twp. into the city for a few years).

Why would drunk Shelby Twp./Oakland U grads need to take a trolly 3.3 miles when in two taps on their iPhone they can have an Uber car take them door to door for less than $10?

**SpartanDawg** · May-20-14, 07:54 AM

Two trolls took over. Abandon thread and turn back now.

**dmike76** · May-20-14, 07:56 AM

I thouht they had the money locked up for this already? What the hell?

**bailey** · May-20-14, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by dmike76

I thouht they had the money locked up for this already? What the hell?

ever participated in a pledge drive? easy to get the pledges, not so easy to actually collect them.

believe14 · May-20-14, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

Two trolls took over. Abandon thread and turn back now.

Ad hominem attacks make me feel young again. I really want to see Detroit stabilize. I'm very seized with this project because it is literally the most embarrassing development I've ever heard and boondoggles like this put Detroit's rep back in the gutter, i.e., more of the same. It's like nobody on Dan's team conducted a cost-benefit analysis. This thing has to be all ego because $140M could do so much good in Detroit and they're just flushing it down the toilet on M-1 [[while also putting Detroit back in the news for being a laughing stock). Thing is, I know what Dan will do. Dan will force his employees to park and ride it twice a day M-F to inflate the ridership.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-20-14, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by believe14

No so much. I really want to see Detroit stabilize. I'm very seized with this project because it is literally the most embarrassing development I've ever heard and boondoggles like this put Detroit's rep back in the gutter. [[note: I was too young to be aware of the People Mover.)

How is this embarrassing? Every major city in North America has some sort of rail transit--except Detroit. What's embarrassing about this project is that the funding is coming neither from the State, nor the City, nor the County, nor the toothless Regional Transit Authority.

It's like nobody on Dan's team conducted a cost-benefit analysis. This thing has to be all ego because $140M could do so much good in Detroit and they're just flushing it down the toilet on M-1 -- while also putting Detroit back in the news for being a laughing stock. Thing is, I know what Dan will do. Dan will force his employees to park and ride it twice a day M-F to inflate the ridership.

Yes, they should just take the $140 million and build a new freeway down Woodward. And more demolitions and parking lots.

**Honky Tonk** · May-20-14, 08:09 AM

Ahhh, The wide-eyed Christmas morning children are here. "Ooooooooo, a choo-choo, Thanx Mom and Dad!!!!

**Honky Tonk** · May-20-14, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by dmike76

I thouht they had the money locked up for this already? What the hell?

They had Federal money contingent on the formation of a RTA [[Reginal Transit Authority) The RTA was desolved about 2 months after funding was announced. My guess is someone might have cut the funding.

**Bham1982** · May-20-14, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

How is this embarrassing? Every major city in North America has some sort of rail transit--except Detroit. .

Detroit has had rail transit for decades- the People Mover. This is People Mover 2. They're almost exactly the same length and functionality.

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What's embarrassing about this project is that the funding is coming neither from the State, nor the City, nor the County, nor the toothless Regional Transit Authority.

Gee, what an embarrassment. I'm so ashamed that a bar/stadium/commuter lot trolley for billionaire property owners isn't being funded by broke taxpayers. Where are our priorities, people? Taxpayers need to fund the stadia, and they need to fund the parking shuttles.

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Yes, they should just take the $140 million and build a new freeway down Woodward. And more demolitions and parking lots.

Or they could spend half that to improve the existing Woodward bus service, which is quite frequent and very heavily used [[much moreso than this trolley).

**wolverine** · May-20-14, 08:17 AM

I don't have much confidence in effective functionality of M1 rail but I'm willing to wait to see. I hope I'm surprised and I hope it works better than expected. I feel there's been a lot of sunk cost in planning and you almost have to move forward with something, even if it's a lousy concession.

As I type this I'm sitting across from a false wall in a mall downtown that was to be an entrance to a 3-level airport check-in / direct HSR boarding to O'Hare. Hundreds of millions of taxpayer money spent and it will probably never open. I hate to see a similar outcome in Detroit. Build something for the time and money spent.

**Danny** · May-20-14, 08:24 AM

Yes, the next People Mover part 2.

**Honky Tonk** · May-20-14, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I don't have much confidence in effective functionality of M1 rail but I'm willing to wait to see. I hope I'm surprised and I hope it works better than expected. I feel there's been a lot of sunk cost in planning and you almost have to move forward with something, even if it's a lousy concession.

As I type this I'm sitting across from a false wall in a mall downtown that was to be an entrance to a 3-level airport check-in / direct HSR boarding to O'Hare. Hundreds of millions of taxpayer money spent and it will probably never open. I hate to see a similar outcome in Detroit. Build something for the time and money spent.

Did you ever hear the phrase "pouring good money after bad"?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-20-14, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Detroit has had rail transit for decades- the People Mover. This is People Mover 2. They're almost exactly the same length and functionality.

The DPM is *not* rail transit, contrary to what you might think. It relies on expensive, obsolete, proprietary technology that is [[if I'm not mistaken) no longer available. The DPM was never designed to be expanded beyond the 3-mile loop, and its routing and unidirectional operation render it inferior to walking in most instances.

Gee, what an embarrassment. I'm so ashamed that a bar/stadium/commuter lot trolley for billionaire property owners isn't being funded by broke taxpayers. Where are our priorities, people? Taxpayers need to fund the stadia, and they need to fund the parking shuttles.

Your "broke taxpayers" have spent billions on upgrading an airport, have thrown billions at stadiums and building demolitions, and are planning to throw billions at more unnecessary freeways. That men like Dan Gilbert and Roger Penske actually think it *wise* to invest in Detroit--and are spending a comparative pittance in money to upgrade PUBLIC infrastructure--perhaps these gentlemen know something that you don't.

Or they could spend half that to improve the existing Woodward bus service, which is quite frequent and very heavily used [[much moreso than this trolley).

So you think vague, unspecified "improvements" to diesel buses on bone-jarring pothole-riddled pavement are superior to fixed-route electric-powered transit on steel rails? Are we supposed to believe that M-1 Rail will be a boondoggle, even though the existing bus service is "heavily used"?

I know I'm preaching to the choir, here. The naysayers are the same people who have been saying the same crap for the past seven decades in Detroit. And we see how well their lazy, do-nothing "vision" for Detroit has worked.

**bailey** · May-20-14, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

How is this embarrassing? Every major city in North America has some sort of rail transit--except Detroit.....

...and when M1 is done, Detroit STILL won't have rail transit. it'll have a downtown parking shuttle/trolley.

believe14 · May-20-14, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

1) How is this embarrassing? Every major city in North America has some sort of rail transit--except Detroit.

2) Yes, they should just take the $140 million and build a new freeway down Woodward. And more demolitions and parking lots.

1) "every major city" ... I think you mean every major FUNCTIONING city. Detroit is in a league of its own.

2) Straw man tactics are so unbecoming. I'd use the $140M for something bold, like maybe pay off student loans of anyone with a bachelors degree who agrees to live in city proper for 24 months. There are honestly a 1,000 things in Detroit that $140M could go to that will make a more meaningful impact than the M-1.

**stasu1213** · May-20-14, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

And Woodward rebuilt from Adams to W. Grand Blvd. That's a big job.

Hell, I'm excited about the new concrete.

And, of course, the new arena should break ground, I'd think, before fall.

Lot of excitement coming.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...eaking-Detroit

The design of the streetcar hasn't been selected. Waiting on philantropics to donate money for the cause. Groundbreaking had been delayed until summer, then fall, then next Spring; and some of you call me dillusional for saying for years that it's not going to happen. Go figure

believe14 · May-20-14, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I feel there's been a lot of sunk cost in planning and you almost have to move forward with something, even if it's a lousy concession.

Tiny fraction of what this thing will cost to build. No to mention what -dollar amount do you put on Detroit being in the national press for this embarrassment in a few years?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-20-14, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

...and when M1 is done, Detroit STILL won't have rail transit. it'll have a downtown parking shuttle/trolley.

I'd hate to be the one to tell you this, but if you keep waiting for a region-wide streetcar/light rail system to instantaneously materialize all at once, you might be a little bit bonkers.

Even the greatest transit systems on earth have to start somewhere. Don't let the Good be the enemy of the Perfect.