Living in Birmingham vs. living in Grosse Pointe/eastside

[GP For Life]

I'd rent in West Village before I'd ever buy in Indian Village.[/COLOR]

100% with you on that.

GP is only slightly better than MC in terms of culture? Is that dude high?

[edoug85]

I’d say Grosse Pointe Park then. Lake St. Clair is a “big” lake and GP has three nice little neighborhood business districts not including Mack. Birmingham has a better downtown but you to far from other amenities.

[Mackinaw]

Grosse Pointe Park, City, or Farms. There are so many affordable blocks were you can walk to the water and walk to urban amenities. Then you are 15 minutes from downtown tops by surface street. Try at least double that for Birmingham. Whether you pay for gas, cab fare, bus, whatever to go downtown, GP will be cheaper and less time wasted. I recommend the first six streets in GP Park. Locate near Kercheval and you can walk to any of the food and drink establishments on that street, Charlevoix, or Mack Ave. in and around those same streets. There's a good 8-12 bars or restos with bars in that area, at least a few of which have at least a good scene on a given night. From there shoot straight down to Windmill Point park for your boating, fishing or other rec. 2 min drive, 5 min bike, 20 min walk. The Park has a second lakefront Park, at the foot of Three Mile Drive. This location is also easy striking distance to the quaint, if only marginally stylish, shopping/town center districts on Kercheval in the City and Farms. And there are plenty of other good spots...

[gnome]

Listen to The Rock. He knows.

[Mind field]

I'd pick any of the grosse pointes.

[Jason]

This entire post is from the "Detroit is about to boom and suburbs are about to collapse" school of thought. You know, the same one that's been parroted for 60 years now.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, but most reasonable people will not endorse any of the sentiments in this post. Yeah, move to Van Dyke and Mack if you want people with advanced degrees, but stay the hell out of affluent suburbs...

IV's census tract is 50% with bachelors and 30% with masters which is about double even the highest census tracts in MC, and about the same as the GP census tracts.

That fact, plus the decline of manufacturing, the decline in service industry wages, the poor school choices, the age of many of the residents, and a bunch of other factors make me think that MC doesn't have a bright future and that there is nowhere in MC where buying a house will be a good investment.

GP's longterm future depends on downtown Detroit's success. GP is a bedroom community that needs someplace to commute to. It doesn't have a Troy or Southfield like OC does. GP's Big Beaver is Detroit. In the future it won't be able to count on MC for high paying jobs or office space, and NIMBYs would prevent GP from developing office buildings itself.

I haven't been comparing OC because it's bad for boating and for commuting to downtown.

100% with you on that.

GP is only slightly better than MC in terms of culture? Is that dude high?

GP has a small subset of people who are patrons of the arts [[Hawkins Ferry being the best historical example), or have an interest in art and design either professionally or as a hobby, or have an interest in local history. The public library is a good example of this dynamic. The overwhelming majority of people in Grosse Pointe wanted it demolished because they thought that it was bad. Even the library board of all people! The commercial renovations and new construction and the new houses tell you what GPers think is good. But the library was saved because of external, international pressure, and [[I'll give credit where credit is due) patronage and support from a small number of locals.

People in GP are just as likely as the people in MC to say that modern art [[aka "all art from the last 100+ years") is garbage that a 5 year old could do, and to say that all the stuff at the local crafts fairs is "good art". And whatever actual art from centuries past that they actually do like they know nothing about.

I'm not going to say that IV is any kind of mecca, but I do think there's a stronger interest in local history there, and I think there's more awareness of art and design there. At the very least IV [[and West Village which I'm sort of bundling it with) has a few hipsters, and despite their flaws hipsters at least have some aesthetic sensibilities. The recent commercial interiors there are better than any recent ones I'm aware of in GP.

Or maybe I know MC and GP too well, and IV not well enough. So I might be overrating IV but I'm definitely not underrating GP.

[old guy]

As a percentage, GP has more 20-somethings into boating than most/all communities. My early-20s were my prime yachting years. Jetting off to exciting regattas. Blowing up owners' bar tabs. Waking up on hotel pool furniture.

Why did I get to have all these great experiences? Because yachting [[that's sailboat racing to you poors) is a valued skill among the enlightened and I grew up among the enlightened.

Jeepers GP, I wish I could be like you. Sounds great.
When I was a little kid I used to tell my ma that when I grew up I wanted to be rich enough to own a triple wide mobile home. She'd just slap me upside the back of my head and tell me us poors wouldn't ever have nothin' that nice.
I guess she was right cus we just weren't enlightened enough. Sure woulda been nice though. I really admire people of your stature though.
Darn, the thought of waking up on hotel pool furniture has always been something I've always dreamed about.

[poobert]

I've said this before, but is getting kind of ridiculous how we're sending every single person who starts a "Moving to Metro Detroit" thread to the Grosse Pointes. I agree they're probably the most desirable for a combination of reason, but this is getting ridiculous. Not everybody can/wants to live there.

[Honky Tonk]

As a percentage, GP has more 20-somethings into boating than most/all communities. My early-20s were my prime yachting years. Jetting off to exciting regattas. Blowing up owners' bar tabs. Waking up on hotel pool furniture.

Why did I get to have all these great experiences? Because yachting [[that's sailboat racing to you poors) is a valued skill among the enlightened and I grew up among the enlightened.

Wow, I'm having flashbacks..... I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth, but somehow finagled my way to become involved in sailing. Great times for sure. Requires a lot more skill then hitting the throttle. GP would probably be a good choice for a place to settle for boater4life. Don't residents also get free slips @ Windmill Point Park?

[Pickford-Bentler]

My brother has been involved with yacht clubs in the Delmarva for about four decades. He started out with a sailing boat and now has a big cruiser with twin Cummins diesels. Anyhow, there is more than a germ of truth to the sailors seeing themselves as more "enlightened" than the "power boaters". It causes divisions and fighting within yacht clubs.

All I know is that you better be paying attention when you hear "jibe ho" on a sailing boat.

A fine weather day on the bay will bring out a mix of craft not unlike this scene from Caddyshack. I remember we were tacking up a channel and, although the rules do say that a craft under sail has right of way, I looked back and saw the bow of a huge cruiser heading straight for us. Put it this way, I just kept on cranking that jib tight and saying some prayers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp7QoR8vMW8

[Hermod]

My brother has been involved with yacht clubs in the Delmarva for about four decades. He started out with a sailing boat and now has a big cruiser with twin Cummins diesels. Anyhow, there is more than a germ of truth to the sailors seeing themselves as more "enlightened" than the "power boaters". It causes divisions and fighting within yacht clubs.

All I know is that you better be paying attention when you hear "jibe ho" on a sailing boat.

A fine weather day on the bay will bring out a mix of craft not unlike this scene from Caddyshack. I remember we were tacking up a channel and, although the rules do say that a craft under sail has right of way, I looked back and saw the bow of a huge cruiser heading straight for us. Put it this way, I just kept on cranking that jib tight and saying some prayers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp7QoR8vMW8

The sailboat has the right-of-way while maintaining its course. If you are tacking up a channel, you lose your right-of-way if you come about to tack which is a change of course. Powerboats cannot be obliged to dodge around all of your maneuvers.

Attachment 23495

[Honky Tonk]

The sailboat has the right-of-way while maintaining its course. If you are tacking up a channel, you lose your right-of-way if you come about to tack which is a change of course. Powerboats cannot be obliged to dodge around all of your maneuvers.

Attachment 23495

Right, It's too difficult to set your beer down and ease back on the throttle.

[bailey]

The public library is a good example of this dynamic. The overwhelming majority of people in Grosse Pointe wanted it demolished because they thought that it was bad. Even the library board of all people! The commercial renovations and new construction and the new houses tell you what GPers think is good. But the library was saved because of external, international pressure, and [[I'll give credit where credit is due) patronage and support from a small number of locals.

People in GP are just as likely as the people in MC to say that modern art [[aka "all art from the last 100+ years") is garbage that a 5 year old could do, and to say that all the stuff at the local crafts fairs is "good art". And whatever actual art from centuries past that they actually do like they know nothing about.

...let me just thread jack for a minute on the GP library issue. the townsfolk weren't out with pitchforks to demolish an "ugly" building because they are bunch of slack jawed philistines that can't comprehend modernist architecture.... the building like many of them built in that style and time had become obsolete as it was not designed to function as a 21st century library. Renovation options are severely limited and cost prohibitive. But you're right, outsiders swooped in stopped the demo. So now GP is saddled with a very "important" building, that does its only job badly. GP will now spend money tinkering at the margins to make it at least function for something approximating its intended purpose. Even those modest modifications are being met with howls of protests from far flung purists.

Personally, I say vacate the property and let someone else re- purpose it. GP has enough libraries and better things to spend money on, if the need is that strong, just build new over behind the village. But of course, that won't happen because the purists have no use for a obsolete library building in fly over country...so we're stuck with it.

[Honky Tonk]

I say vacate the property and let someone else re- purpose it. GP has enough libraries and better things to spend money on, if the need is that strong, just build new over behind the village. But of course, that won't happen because the purists have no use for a obsolete library building in fly over country...so we're stuck with it.

Do what we do. Spray paint it, scrap it, then set it on fire. Eventually a demolition will take place because someone will deem it "an eyesore".

[Pickford-Bentler]

Right, It's too difficult to set your beer down and ease back on the throttle.

My brother graduated from the United States Naval Academy. I think he know the rules pretty well. We were on starboard tack and not under power As a result, this rule applied above and beyond being on a starboard tack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...lisions_at_Sea




13. OvertakingAn overtaking vessel must keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. "Overtaking" means approaching another vessel at more than 22.5 degrees abaft^[10] her beam, i.e., so that at night, the overtaking vessel would see only the stern light and neither of the sidelights of the vessel being overtaken.^[6]






For example, when we had the sail boat under power we were obliged to cut throttle and steer abaft of any craft not under power - be that craft a sloop, sunfish, canoe or kayak.

Hermod, any person piloting a water craft knows that a tack is not a course. Depending on currents and drift of the craft, the course of a sail boat tacking upwind will be about 45 degrees to either starboard or port. Hell, even a large ship under power's true course does not follow the bow angle. That's what did in the morons piloting the Costa Concordia. They failed to take into account how the drift due to winds hitting that high superstructure had an effect on true course.

And if one I going to pilot a craft they should know the traits of all other craft they may encounter.

And that is a problem with power boaters. Many act like a power boat moves like a car. They also fail to throttle down and yield right of way according to rules that are just common sense.

My father plied the Detroit River on the Jay Burton Ayers.

He had a few stories about the power boater who got to close abeam and got sucked and crunched in the prop wash. The Bernoulli effect does not forgive.

The Olympic, a sister to the Titanic, sucked the Hawke into its side because she passed too close while overtaking. And the little Hawke opened up the Olympic like a can opener. That does not speak to well about the quality of steel that went into ships called unsinkable.

[xrayvision]

As a lifelong boater, both power and sail GP is the place to be. That being said, as an alternitive, you could get a small condo in OC then purchase a boat big enough to weekend on. If its a power boat, Keep it at one of the marina's in SCS and use it as your summer place, if its a sail boat Bayview is your answer.

Good Luck,

[nain rouge]

the building like many of them built in that style and time had become obsolete as it was not designed to function as a 21st century library...

Oh, puh-leeze. It's a library for Christ's sake. What functions does it need, besides to house books and provide an internet connection?

[boater4life]

I guess I should've given some more information about myself. I own a viking 42, so even if I were to live in OC I would still commute to the eastside to get to lake st. clair. The only thing I wouldn't like about the eastside, is the winters I guess. I feel as if there is way more to do when it is cold out in, say royal oak, or downtown birmingham than in GP. I do know that the commute to downtown from the OC is bad however, and GP is closer to where I work but I also have this notion in my head that GP is just where the older crowd lives. In Royal oak, which is just a short drive from Birmingham, I feel everyone is younger and the nightlife is better as well. Also, I know the two areas pretty well and as bham1982 said, I'm not looking for a starter home either.

[Hermod]

Right, It's too difficult to set your beer down and ease back on the throttle.

While I agree with you that there are a lot of obnoxious boaters out there, those are the rules. Sailboats have the right-of-way as long as they steer a steady course. It does get tricky trying to tack up the North Channel against the current with a north-east wind blowing.

[Bham1982]

I guess I should've given some more information about myself. I own a viking 42, so even if I were to live in OC I would still commute to the eastside to get to lake st. clair. The only thing I wouldn't like about the eastside, is the winters I guess. I feel as if there is way more to do when it is cold out in, say royal oak, or downtown birmingham than in GP. I do know that the commute to downtown from the OC is bad however, and GP is closer to where I work but I also have this notion in my head that GP is just where the older crowd lives. In Royal oak, which is just a short drive from Birmingham, I feel everyone is younger and the nightlife is better as well. Also, I know the two areas pretty well and as bham1982 said, I'm not looking for a starter home either.

Well you're right, there's definitely more "stuff" [[restaurants, shops, culture, etc.) in that part of OC compared to Eastside. But, Eastside is much closer to the lake. So you need to decide which of these two things [[next-door "stuff" or next-door boating) is more important.

Whatever your choice, it isn't a huge deal. If you lived in one you would be 30 minutes max from the other [[Metro Parkway and 696 are quick trips).

[Bham1982]

IV's census tract is 50% with bachelors and 30% with masters which is about double even the highest census tracts in MC, and about the same as the GP census tracts.

A census tract consists of a few hundred households. You are trying to compare % between like three streets with a county of a million people. Obviously you can't compare a tract to a county or even a city.

And what census tract are you even referring to? I see lower levels of educational attainment in Indian Village than in affluent suburbs.

[Mackinaw]

Well I guess it depends on what stuff you like to do. You should spend a whole Saturday evening on Kercheval in the Park [[and p.s. there is a Saturday farmer's mkt), and another evening on Kercheval in the City, and another one at the bars on Charlevoix and on Mack-- see what you think. It's hardly ever trendy, but there are good people, cheap prices, and at least some street vibe. To the extent you need an alternative, there's the whole City next door. For many/most, the City is the focal point for fun and the local stuff is for when you are taking it easy. And this is not Harbor Springs-- the places are open in the winter.

If restaurants matter, GP is suddenly getting better, and it has the Restaurant of the Year, Marais, right downtown.

[DetroitPlanner]

You can have the best of all and live in River Rouge or Ecorse!

[Honky Tonk]

You can have the best of all and live in River Rouge or Ecorse!

Bellanger Park DOES have a boat launch, and it's FREE for River Rouge residents! Just like GPP.

[DetroitPlanner]

Bellanger Park DOES have a boat launch, and it's FREE for River Rouge residents! Just like GPP.

Bellanger Park allows riff-raff such as myself to come into the park and freeload.