Living in Birmingham vs. living in Grosse Pointe/eastside

**boater4life** · May-11-14, 11:20 PM

I'm looking to move to one of these two areas and wanted some information as to which would be better for me. I'm in my late 20's, I work downtown, and I absolutely love the water [[big lakes). However, in the winter and colder months, I also like to go shopping, eat at lots of different restaurants, and experience some night life. Also, St. Clair shores has some nice waterfront homes, and even harrison twp. which is close to hall road, has a lot of restaurants and bars on M-59. So, as you can see, I'm kind of in a predicament I was hoping you could help me out with.

**Hermod** · May-12-14, 04:30 AM

I would go Harrison Twp over SCS and even better over the Grosse Pointes if you want waterfront with your boat docked in the backyard.

**Bham1982** · May-12-14, 06:53 AM

There are no "big lakes" in Birmingham. There's only Quarton Lake, which is really a nothing pond.

Bloomfield Township, West Bloomfield Township, and Orchard Lake all have tons of lake living to the northwest of Birmingham, and around 20 minutes away.

Honestly, a single guy late 20's does not seem to be a common demographic in either Oakland County lakes area or Macomb St. Clair area. Neither are built for that demographic, and neither have much nightlife and the like [[though Oakland lakes area is close to Woodward Corridor which has all that stuff). SCS is a faster commute to downtown though and there is the "Nautical Mile" [[which seems prettty limited to me, but whatever).

They're also not really similar areas, at all. SCS, while it has a variety of home types, is mostly a working class South Macomb community of modest starter ranches. That Birmingham-Bloomfield area, while also a variety of homes, is the biggest wealth center in the state, and is not typically thought of a starter home area.

**GP For Life** · May-12-14, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

I'm looking to move to one of these two areas and wanted some information as to which would be better for me. I'm in my late 20's, I work downtown, and I absolutely love the water [[big lakes). However, in the winter and colder months, I also like to go shopping, eat at lots of different restaurants, and experience some night life. Also, St. Clair shores has some nice waterfront homes, and even harrison twp. which is close to hall road, has a lot of restaurants and bars on M-59. So, as you can see, I'm kind of in a predicament I was hoping you could help me out with.

It all depends on your breeding. Questionable? Then Macomb and Oakland are great choices. Pedigreed? Welcome to GP, son.

**the rock** · May-12-14, 07:45 AM

I grew up on Birmingham before the age of parking meters downtown. Wonderful area then and still pretty nice now. But if you are a boater for life, GP area is the place for you. I am a boater and have been here since 1965. Lake St. Clair at your doorstep, plenty of good restaurants and bars, and so much easier driving in to work and home again on E. Jefferson than the grief of I-75 and heading North. Watching an early morning sunrise over the lake is worth the price of admission.

**GP For Life** · May-12-14, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by the rock

Lake St. Clair at your doorstep, plenty of good restaurants and bars, and so much easier driving in to work and home again on E. Jefferson than the grief of I-75 and heading North. Watching an early morning sunrise over the lake is worth the price of admission.

I missed the part where you said you worked downtown. You definitely want to move to GP. That commute is easy. You don't want to do drive out to OC during a rush hour if you can help it.

**Honky Tonk** · May-12-14, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

I'm looking to move to one of these two areas and wanted some information as to which would be better for me. I'm in my late 20's, I work downtown, and I absolutely love the water [[big lakes). However, in the winter and colder months, I also like to go shopping, eat at lots of different restaurants, and experience some night life. Also, St. Clair shores has some nice waterfront homes, and even harrison twp. which is close to hall road, has a lot of restaurants and bars on M-59. So, as you can see, I'm kind of in a predicament I was hoping you could help me out with.

Serious question: What kind of boat?

**TKshreve** · May-12-14, 10:23 AM

GP is the right choice as stated above. Downtown has no shortage of nightlife, restaurants and entertainment. It is literally 10-15 minutes from your door. Kercheval has three districts along it for added close-to-home options. And if you're a laker, there's really no question about it. Don't rule out SCS either, although your route into Downtown is a bit longer.

The guys above me are spot on.

**Bham1982** · May-12-14, 10:39 AM

I could think of few less appealing places for a single 20-something than the Pointes, but most single 20-somethings probably aren't huge into boating, so if that's your main criteria, it may work [[as long as you realize you aren't boating from your residence).

**nain rouge** · May-12-14, 10:55 AM

Meh. Grosse Pointe Park is kinda cool and the westernmost part of town is urban by Metro Detroit standards. It's really an oasis on the east side for people that appreciate some degree of urbanity. Mack Ave has its pluses, too. And besides your proximity to Detroit, you're also near the intriguing and up-and-coming West Village and Indian Village area.

Birmingham area is the safest way to get urban amenities in Metro Detroit. The trio of Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Ferndale is fun, and Woodward is a cool road. Plus, if you want to tour classic Metro Detroit decay, 8 Mile and Pontiac are short drives!

**Dan Wesson** · May-12-14, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Serious question: What kind of boat?

The kind that makes a hole in the water which you pour money into.

**GP For Life** · May-12-14, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

most single 20-somethings probably aren't huge into boating, so if that's your main criteria

As a percentage, GP has more 20-somethings into boating than most/all communities. My early-20s were my prime yachting years. Jetting off to exciting regattas. Blowing up owners' bar tabs. Waking up on hotel pool furniture.

Why did I get to have all these great experiences? Because yachting [[that's sailboat racing to you poors) is a valued skill among the enlightened and I grew up among the enlightened.

**Honky Tonk** · May-12-14, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

The kind that makes a hole in the water which you pour money into.

I sail, and it can make a difference whether you want big water, or bob around in the river. Whether the boat's powered, or you rely on sails, etc. That's why I asked. Having said that, yeah, you're right......

**the rock** · May-12-14, 11:41 AM

My thought regarding the commute was that it was easier and less stressful to drive from Downtown to the GP area during rush hour than it was taking an expressway to the North. Yet I had two law partners who lived out near Walnut Lake Road in OC and they were quite used to the drive. They were not boaters. They were golfers. I guess it's whatever floats your boat. [[Pardon the pun).

**masterblaster** · May-12-14, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I could think of few less appealing places for a single 20-something than the Pointes, but most single 20-somethings probably aren't huge into boating, so if that's your main criteria, it may work [[as long as you realize you aren't boating from your residence).

There is a community of homes on the far east side of Detroit proper that have canals in the backyards that lead to the Detroit River where Lake St. Clair empties into the River. In this little neighborhood, you could boat from your residen. Also it is close to the Grosse Pointe shopping districts, and Downtown/Midtown.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3595...CzFm43rWFQ!2e0

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/14...88160649_zpid/

**Honky Tonk** · May-12-14, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by the rock

My thought regarding the commute was that it was easier and less stressful to drive from Downtown to the GP area during rush hour than it was taking an expressway to the North. Yet I had two law partners who lived out near Walnut Lake Road in OC and they were quite used to the drive. They were not boaters. They were golfers. I guess it's whatever floats your boat. [[Pardon the pun).

I worked with a guy once that lived out that way, and threw an office party, "right after work". One trip that way in rush hour traffic was enough for me.

**poobert** · May-12-14, 12:33 PM

I heard that some city called Detroit was near water and hip young folks seem keen on it, too.

**bailey** · May-12-14, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

I heard that some city called Detroit was near water and hip young folks seem keen on it, too.

...and it even has well run public and private harbors.

**Honky Tonk** · May-12-14, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

...and it even has well run public and private harbors.

Last time I went to the launch on Lycaste to ask about launch water depth, the guy pulled a gun on me. People seem a bit antsy around that area.

**Hermod** · May-12-14, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

The kind that makes a hole in the water which you pour money into.

B.O.A.T. Break Out Another Thousand

**Hermod** · May-12-14, 01:32 PM

New Baltimore is nice. If you wish to visit a watering hole, San Souci on the South Channel, Earl Browns on the Middle Channel. or several places along the North Channel provide slips to dock your boar whilst you dine and imbibe.

**TKshreve** · May-12-14, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

There is a community of homes on the far east side of Detroit proper that have canals in the backyards that lead to the Detroit River where Lake St. Clair empties into the River. In this little neighborhood, you could boat from your residen. Also it is close to the Grosse Pointe shopping districts, and Downtown/Midtown.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3595...CzFm43rWFQ!2e0

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/14...88160649_zpid/

Masterblaster has stumbled upon something definitely worth the look. If you can find a place on Harbor Island in you price range - go for it. It is a very community oriented block, and the price will confirm that. Besides that Klenk Street, Scripps and the end of Ashland are all well worth a look too. Those houses can sell as cheap as $12,000 if you feel like rolling the dice. The communities are very quiet along the canals due to the natural barrier. I can't speak for the canal that runs up Ashland, but will attest to the calmness of the aforementioned streets. Just about all of them have canal frontage.

If that's a bit too Detroit for you, I will reiterate SCS. Almost every street east of Jefferson has canal frontage for the resident. Good option as well being that you can shoot out into the dead middle of Lake St. Clair.

**Jason** · May-12-14, 02:54 PM

If you're a downtown kind of guy, then pick Indian Village. If you're a Hall Road kind of guy, then choose Macomb County. If you're undecided, like both, or like Hall Road better but still want to be close to downtown, then pick Grosse Pointe.

If you identify with people who went to college then choose IV or GP, which have similar levels of educational attainment. In MC 10-15% of your neighbors will be high school dropouts.

If you strongly value culture [[history, architecture, art, music, etc.) then pick IV. MC is a cultural wasteland. GP is only a little better. They'd disagree, but as the saying goes, money doesn't buy taste.

If you want to be somewhere with young people pick IV. MC and GP are mostly the elderly parents of kids who have since moved away. Some areas will have young families mixed in.

If you want a short commute, and you want to be able to integrate your downtown/work social life with your at-home social life, then pick IV, or possibly GP.

If you want a canal house or very abundant marinas pick MC. GP and IV both have very good access to Marinas though.

MC has cheaper houses. GP has more expensive, but nicer houses. IV has nicer houses, which are cheaper to buy. IV has higher taxes, and some of the problems associated with being in Detroit.

If you're thinking longer term, GP has great schools, and MC has mediocre schools. IV has a private waldorf school [[http://www.detroitwaldorf.org/) which covers up to 8th grade and seems successful but is not conventional. IV is within a short car drive to a good selection of high schools.

As far as the real estate investment, I think everything in MC is going to lose a lot of value. If the status quo remains, I think GP will lose value, because the value is already high, and IV will either stay the same or lose value. If downtown continues improving, IV will gain a lot of value, and GP will maintain or gain.

**Bham1982** · May-12-14, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

If you identify with people who went to college then choose IV or GP, which have similar levels of educational attainment. In MC 10-15% of your neighbors will be high school dropouts.

If you strongly value culture [[history, architecture, art, music, etc.) then pick IV. MC is a cultural wasteland. GP is only a little better. They'd disagree, but as the saying goes, money doesn't buy taste.

If you want to be somewhere with young people pick IV. MC and GP are mostly the elderly parents of kids who have since moved away. Some areas will have young families mixed in.

This entire post is from the "Detroit is about to boom and suburbs are about to collapse" school of thought. You know, the same one that's been parroted for 60 years now.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, but most reasonable people will not endorse any of the sentiments in this post. Yeah, move to Van Dyke and Mack if you want people with advanced degrees, but stay the hell out of affluent suburbs...

**nain rouge** · May-12-14, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

If you strongly value culture [[history, architecture, art, music, etc.) then pick IV.

Indian Village wins out on architecture, but the historic areas of the Grosse Pointes aren't shabby. But the rest of your criteria don't really make sense. How does Indian Village have better art and music than the Grosse Pointes? Because it's a little closer to the heart of Detroit? As far as history: the Edsel and Eleanor Ford House, open for tours, is in Grosse Pointe Woods, and the Fisher Mansion [[also open for tours on select days) is closer to Grosse Pointe Park than Indian Village.

In Indian Village, you're getting a historic house, but not much else. I'd rent in West Village before I'd ever buy in Indian Village. You're gonna spend tons of money on upkeep when abandoned streets are just a block or two away.