Groups plan Belle Isle rally to protest 'aggressive treatment of citizens'

**Bluenote132003** · May-09-14, 11:01 AM

From today's Freep:

They're protesting getting pulled over while breaking the law? Folks are mad because people with warrants are getting taken to jail? Another article:
http://www.freep.com/article/2014042...a-jones-police

Are the cops just supposed to ignore illegal behavior? What is Brenda Jones after? That a council person should protest enforcing the law anywhere in Detroit is just mindblowing...

**jt1** · May-09-14, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bluenote132003

From today's Freep:

They're protesting getting pulled over while breaking the law? Folks are mad because people with warrants are getting taken to jail? Another article:
http://www.freep.com/article/2014042...a-jones-police

Are the cops just supposed to ignore illegal behavior? What is Brenda Jones after? That a council person should protest enforcing the law anywhere in Detroit is just mindblowing...

Perhaps they could adopt another park instead of this worthless protest. Too much protesting, not enough doing.

**drjeff** · May-09-14, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bluenote132003

From today's Freep:

They're protesting getting pulled over while breaking the law? Folks are mad because people with warrants are getting taken to jail? Another article:
http://www.freep.com/article/2014042...a-jones-police

Are the cops just supposed to ignore illegal behavior? What is Brenda Jones after? That a council person should protest enforcing the law anywhere in Detroit is just mindblowing...

It's good old fashioned playing of the race card.

**motz** · May-09-14, 11:33 AM

I mean, I guess it is really weird when they are enforcing laws in Detroit, but isn't this what Brenda Jones et all have been asking for? Increased public safety? I just absolutely do not understand why some people think Belle Isle should be their personal unrestricted playground.

**Dan Wesson** · May-09-14, 12:20 PM

Hey hey hey! Wait a darn minute. They maybe criminals but they're our criminals!

**Wesley Mouch** · May-09-14, 05:02 PM

What is it that is being 'aggressive'? Is the the type of infractions being policed, or is it the way they are being policed? Wait, I'm listening to fools who are complaining about someone making Detroit better? What was I thinking?

**unclefrank** · May-09-14, 05:30 PM

As we all know, the cops can be needlessly agressive at times. As long as they are keeping the peace they have my support.

**Scottathew** · May-09-14, 05:37 PM

This is just sad. Detroit needs MORE law enforcement, not less.

They're trying to attach a word like "aggressive" to conjure up thoughts of racially motivated police brutality. However, the reality is that none of that has happened.

Don't want to go to jail? Take care of your warrants and stop breaking the law.

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-14, 05:42 PM

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread. --Anatole France

**EastsideAl** · May-09-14, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bluenote132003

http://www.freep.com/article/2014042...a-jones-police

This is actually a pretty good article, and one that sums up the viewpoints of both sides relatively well.

This has been coming for months. Not to support someone like Brenda Jones, because I don't, but this protest is an inevitable result of the sensitivity arising from Lansing's takeover of Belle Isle, and the fact that those feelings been recently highly exacerbated by the heavy-handed enforcement tactics of the State Police and the DNR.

If you don't understand why this is a racially sensitive issue then you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on here for the past couple of years [[to say nothing of the rest of Detroit, Michigan, and U.S. history). There is already great resentment around here over being charged by people from elsewhere to use a park that we have been paying for ourselves [[without even any little help from Lansing) and using freely for over 140 years. As for the "race card" [[what a stupid term that is), well, from where I stand Snyder & Co. have already played that pretty heavily.

We will be lucky if the fallout only results in this piddly little protest by a professional noisemaker that will likely amount to almost nothing. I think most people in the city, including most politicians, are taking a "wait and see" attitude right now, as they are with all else that's going on between Detroit and Lansing. But the talk and spirit behind this protest do represent some widely-held emotions and apprehensions that are all too real.

All it will take is one slightly Rodney King-like moment with the state's enforcers and the whole thing could get really ugly really quickly. I hope with all my heart that we can avoid that, but from their actions it seems that the State Police and the folks in Lansing are oblivious to the feelings and potential problems involved here.

**RapBrown** · May-09-14, 06:12 PM

Nice post Al, how dare you not fall in line with the other Nazi's. Democracy be damned!

**aj3647** · May-09-14, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread. --Anatole France

Poor black men like Mike Duggan can't get a fair shake from police on Belle Isle!

**Danny** · May-09-14, 06:49 PM

Protesting about the problems at Belle Isle by state takeover will not solve anything. It's a 'Mich 'ississippi' State Park with very strict policies and policing. It's to keep the riff-raff down and the DEAD [[C) KRAK HEADS out. It least Belle Isle is back to its glorious splendor.

**sumas** · May-09-14, 07:30 PM

A friend and I were driving East on Jefferson when two Motorcycle police passed. passing from all different directions came 2 state police cars, then two border patrol then two DPD cars. No clue the problem. That was Thursday.

Personally, I am happy to see the transfer but trust me I would be booed at our street Association. Like 20 to 35 people that attend think the state stole it from the city. Heavy handed police work isn't politic or smart. Certainly, enforce ordinances but with kid gloves.

**sumas** · May-09-14, 07:40 PM

Very articulate post eastside al.

**downtownguy** · May-09-14, 07:59 PM

Nice post EastsideAl. At least your comments were well thought out.

**Gannon** · May-09-14, 08:08 PM

I stepped away from this discussion for a while, mostly due to the yahoos who seek to make it into a false diametric "either/or" type of a situation.

Just because I called out the bullshit behavior of the MOSTLY white-faced law heavies on the island doesn't put me on the side of those who want to dump dead bodies on the island.

Since I've admitted to having business meetings on the island with individuals who dare to drink from 40-ounce bottles, doesn't make me open to the fools who have to prove their manhood by the amount of rubber they can burn.

Nice try, though.

I'm happiest that Snydely has been caught in yet another lie, this one about how "all" state parks are patrolled similarly...which was immediately contradicted by the head of the DNR, who obviously missed the memo with the talking points.

I'll be happier when the whole deal is reversed, with the DNR and the rest of Snydley's minions backing down from their attempted coup. I'll give it a year.

Duggan's team should be able to prove themselves by then...no way this park should continue to remain the center of this quandary. Bring back home rule!

Democracy...

Cheers,
John

**Eastburn** · May-09-14, 08:33 PM

If the enforcement is stricter than it is at other State Parks, I think there's a problem. If not, why should people be treated with kid gloves just because it's Detroit?

**poobert** · May-09-14, 09:22 PM

Consider the source. Ron Scott? Has their ever been a bigger piece of shit, ever, anywhere?

The silent majority of law-abiding Detroiters are sick of lawlessness and welcome the enforcement of the law. Stealing a loaf of bread is one thing - speeding with 34 outstanding warrants is another. Tell me how that is a fucking Robin Hood story. Fucking tell me. C'mon D'nerd. Let's have that guy move next door to you.

Like I've said, I'm left of center but I grew out of this banner-waving bullshit when I grew facial hair. I can't be bothered with you aging hippie poseurs and neither can most Detroiters. We want peace and quiet in our parks and neighborhoods, not some rehashed bullshit about the war in Indochina or whatever you idiots are screaming about these days. It's 2014. We have a black president and a white mayor. Find another clique, man. This isn't Selma, Alabama.

**corktownyuppie** · May-09-14, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Consider the source. Ron Scott? Has their ever been a bigger piece of shit, ever, anywhere?

The silent majority of law-abiding Detroiters are sick of lawlessness and welcome the enforcement of the law. Stealing a loaf of bread is one thing - speeding with 34 outstanding warrants is another. Tell me how that is a fucking Robin Hood story. Fucking tell me. C'mon D'nerd. Let's have that guy move next door to you.

Like I've said, I'm left of center but I grew out of this banner-waving bullshit when I grew facial hair. I can't be bothered with you aging hippie poseurs and neither can most Detroiters. We want peace and quiet in our parks and neighborhoods, not some rehashed bullshit about the war in Indochina or whatever you idiots are screaming about these days. It's 2014. We have a black president and a white mayor. Find another clique, man. This isn't Selma, Alabama.

I'm left of center, too. And after all the hullaballooh all over DYes and the media about this protest, I was expecting a real protest.

20 people showed up.

Hell, on any given Saturday you could probably find 20 black people on Belle Isle who like the extra law enforcement.

200-300,000 people left the city over the last 10 years, many of whom are black. And if you asked them why they left, crime would surely show up in the top 3 reasons.

This isn't 1950s in the South. There is no governor standing at the staircase with the National Guard preventing integration. Are the police being a little bit heavy-handed? Possibly. But if so, they are being equally heavy-handed toward everyone. And there are tons of people...including many Blacks from Detroit, who are kind of glad to see it.

And so if the goal here is to make the police presence a little less imposing, then the worst way to go about it is to turn it into a conversation about outsiders stealing our gems, or gentrification, or police brutality against blacks...all that does is just undermine your credibility, especially when a white middle-aged mayor is just as much a "victim" as anyone else.

Oh, and it would help if all the guys with outstanding warrants just laid a little low. When the posterchild for your cause is some guy with 10 outstanding warrants, it's a lot harder to get on board with your vision for what the island should look like.

**townonenorth** · May-09-14, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread. --Anatole France

Not really true. The Supreme Court has upheld the right of people to beg in the streets.

**Honky Tonk** · May-09-14, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I stepped away from this discussion for a while, mostly due to the yahoos who seek to make it into a false diametric "either/or" type of a situation.

Just because I called out the bullshit behavior of the MOSTLY white-faced law heavies on the island doesn't put me on the side of those who want to dump dead bodies on the island.

Since I've admitted to having business meetings on the island with individuals who dare to drink from 40-ounce bottles, doesn't make me open to the fools who have to prove their manhood by the amount of rubber they can burn.

Nice try, though.

I'm happiest that Snydely has been caught in yet another lie, this one about how "all" state parks are patrolled similarly...which was immediately contradicted by the head of the DNR, who obviously missed the memo with the talking points.

I'll be happier when the whole deal is reversed, with the DNR and the rest of Snydley's minions backing down from their attempted coup. I'll give it a year.

Duggan's team should be able to prove themselves by then...no way this park should continue to remain the center of this quandary. Bring back home rule!

Democracy...

Cheers,
John

Ah, the story's changed to "mostly" white. I'm sure as time goes on, it'll change again to "kinda" white. I was pulled over and issued a ticket on I-94 by a black trooper for speeding. I guess I should've shrieked "racism" like a little girl. How's the pregnancy coming along? Hope the baby's born black. Have a great night.

**sumas** · May-09-14, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Eastburn

If the enforcement is stricter than it is at other State Parks, I think there's a problem. If not, why should people be treated with kid gloves just because it's Detroit?

Re Read Eastside Al's post carefully. He explained it well. Kind of wonder if Detroit is being treated like other parks. Don't they have park rangers? Belle Isle has 3 separate police forces at work no doubt trying to out do each other battling the "forces of evil". Frankly what appears to be going on is little overkill.

**Honky Tonk** · May-09-14, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Re Read Eastside Al's post carefully. He explained it well. Kind of wonder if Detroit is being treated like other parks. Don't they have park rangers? Belle Isle has 3 separate police forces at work no doubt trying to out do each other battling the "forces of evil". Frankly what appears to be going on is little overkill.

Sorry, sumas. Only the State is patrolling Belle Isle.

**erikd** · May-09-14, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

This is actually a pretty good article, and one that sums up the viewpoints of both sides relatively well.

This has been coming for months. Not to support someone like Brenda Jones, because I don't, but this protest is an inevitable result of the sensitivity arising from Lansing's takeover of Belle Isle, and the fact that those feelings been recently highly exacerbated by the heavy-handed enforcement tactics of the State Police and the DNR.

What heavy-handed enforcement tactics?

The state police and DNR officers are mostly issuing warnings, not engaging in heavy-handed enforcement tactics.

Most people, including myself, Mayor Duggan, City Clerk Winfrey, and tens of thousands of other regular visitors, drive way too fast on Belle Isle. The wide open stretches of road on Belle Isle make it very easy to go 35-40 mph without realizing how fast you are driving. However, there are walking and biking paths right along side of the traffic lanes, and we should not be driving that fast in the park.

If the state officers were handing out speeding tickets left and right, then there might be some validity to this complaint. However, that doesn't seem to be what is happening. The park officers are mostly pulling people over and reminding them that they should not be driving so fast, or informing them about other park rules that they may not be aware of.

There was a poster on a recent thread about this very subject who said that a DNR officer stopped them about feeding the geese, which is a valid concern, but not something that I realized was an issue until it was explained.

Are these examples of heavy handed law enforcement techniques? If the officers are mostly pulling people over and simply explaining the laws, then letting people off with a warning, I certainly don't think so...