Proposal to allow assessment of homeowners' fees

**mwilbert** · May-06-14, 07:49 AM

In the Freep today:

http://www.freep.com/article/2014050...sment-district

In my opinion, a rule of this kind has tremendous potential to allow neighborhoods that are still mostly intact to do things that could not be financed before. Of course, the city will have to improve its property tax collection, but it needs to do that anyway.

**ndavies** · May-06-14, 08:05 AM

Yay, another way to tax citizens on top of all the other city taxes. How about fixing the city government to provide all the needed services for the outrageous tax rates that are already being paid.

**Honky Tonk** · May-06-14, 08:55 AM

Didn't they just make a big production about how they're going to be lowering Detroiters Property Tax? So they lower the property tax by a few bucks, then assess property owners for City services. Mind you, you're still paying property tax. Wonderful.

**illwill** · May-06-14, 09:00 AM

Doesn't this make you question the purpose of Bankruptcy and life in the city AFTER Bankruptcy?

Scary...

**mwilbert** · May-06-14, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by illwill

Doesn't this make you question the purpose of Bankruptcy and life in the city AFTER Bankruptcy?

Scary...

No. I don't see any relationship at all.

**mwilbert** · May-06-14, 09:11 AM

Yay, another way to tax citizens on top of all the other city taxes. How about fixing the city government to provide all the needed services for the outrageous tax rates that are already being paid.

Because although the rates are high, the revenue isn't. Because, as you know, the prices aren't very high.

Although I certainly agree that the city government needs to be fixed.

**corktownyuppie** · May-06-14, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

So they lower the property tax by a few bucks, then assess property owners for City services. Mind you, you're still paying property tax. Wonderful.

To be clear, "they" is not the "they" [[the city). It's "we". The city will not impose it on anyone. It will be up to each neighborhood.

Just like a HOA, each neighborhood can choose how much or whether to make an assessment. It's done by local election. The city has nothing to do with it.

I pay city taxes. I also pay HOA dues. There are plenty of neighborhoods that would happily [[or begrudgingly) pay more if they knew that the funds would stay locally.

I applaud this move.

**motz** · May-06-14, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

To be clear, "they" is not the "they" [[the city). It's "we". The city will not impose it on anyone. It will be up to each neighborhood.

Just like a HOA, each neighborhood can choose how much or whether to make an assessment. It's done by local election. The city has nothing to do with it.

I pay city taxes. I also pay HOA dues. There are plenty of neighborhoods that would happily [[or begrudgingly) pay more if they knew that the funds would stay locally.

I applaud this move.

Corktownyuppie, spot on! These are optional and must be agreed upon by residents. Giving residents options is very critical. I am very happy with this move, as I think it will give a fair chunk of the remaining healthy neighborhoods new options to attack the issues they face.

**Honky Tonk** · May-06-14, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by motz

Corktownyuppie, spot on! These are optional and must be agreed upon by residents. Giving residents options is very critical. I am very happy with this move, as I think it will give a fair chunk of the remaining healthy neighborhoods new options to attack the issues they face.

It could also discourage potential buyers if they realize, let's say to move into EEV, you'll be paying Detroit taxes and whatever other association fees other residents decide upon, just to have comparable services. They'll be looking @ "X" amount of extra dollars they'll have to be shelling out, and weigh the value of the potential purchase. If you have or are thinking of family, extra dollars count.

**corktownyuppie** · May-06-14, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It could also discourage potential buyers if they realize, let's say to move into EEV, you'll be paying Detroit taxes and whatever other association fees other residents decide upon, just to have comparable services. They'll be looking @ "X" amount of extra dollars they'll have to be shelling out, and weigh the value of the potential purchase. If you have or are thinking of family, extra dollars count.

It very well could. That's an argument that can and should hold a lot of weight as each neighborhood debates whether or not to make an assessment [[and in what manner that assessment might get spent.) It could also encourage potential buyers if EEV had it's own effective private security force in the same way that Midtown and Palmer Woods have their own private security forces. [[Though, Midtown benefits from WSUPD, which is not exactly "private", but that's an altogether different point.)

I think that there are two points to consider here. Of course, any time you are in the midst of change, there is an uncertainty that kicks in which will probably discourage buyers. You are right that I may be unwilling to purchase a property while also knowing that an extra unknown monthly fee might be charged.

On the other hand, once that fee has been determined, local neighborhoods can better gauge what kinds of services they need and what the priorities are without having to be just another "line item" on the Mayor/City Council's gigantic agenda.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not neighborhoods decide to utilize this system and on what services they choose to spend the money.

**mwilbert** · May-06-14, 12:58 PM

I can't speak to other neighborhoods, but in the University District, generally only 10-15% of the people pay for the security patrol, so it only operates during certain hours. If you assessed all the houses in the area 300 dollars/year, [[there are somewhere around 1200 houses) you would be able to pay for a full-time, 24-hour multi-person security staff and still have money left over for other stuff. That might be overkill, it is just an example.

Now, instead of paying maybe $4000/year in taxes, you would be paying $4300. I suspect most people would be attracted by the full time security and wouldn't particularly sweat the relatively small change in taxes. But I could be wrong, and neighborhoods will have to try and see what works.

**gnome** · May-06-14, 01:21 PM

The only way this should work is have the homeowner deduct the HOA fees from COD property taxes.

**mwilbert** · May-06-14, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

The only way this should work is have the homeowner deduct the HOA fees from COD property taxes.

Why? Why shouldn't a neighborhood raise extra money if it wants extra service. Seems to me that is a separate question from what services we should get for our taxes.

**motz** · May-06-14, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Why? Why shouldn't a neighborhood raise extra money if it wants extra service. Seems to me that is a separate question from what services we should get for our taxes.

Because taxes. Duh. Taxes, even when completely optional, are evil. Even if it means a higher level of service that residents desire and are most likely willing to sacrifice for, taxes are evil.

**gnome** · May-06-14, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Why? Why shouldn't a neighborhood raise extra money if it wants extra service. Seems to me that is a separate question from what services we should get for our taxes.

Why? The HOAs in Detroit don't use their funds for extra fluffy stuff. They use the money for security, for snow removal and lawn care for common areas. These are services that are usually supplied by a functional city. Detroit is not good at supplying essential services, if it was it wouldn't be bankrupt.

Despite the notion that people hate paying taxes; I believe most folk hate paying for stuff they don't receive. For decades Detroit has not given value to its citizens. It's taxes are high and services low.

if you want people to move back to Detroit, you have to give people value for their tax dollar; if you allow them to directly control their own money and services they will be empowered to take control of their blocks and neighborhood.

But, if taxing people twice to get half-assed services is the current plan, I imagine most folks in a HOA won't pay and force everyone else to carry their load.