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  1. #76
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    Michigan is not a high tax state. California is a high tax state; pretty much the entire Northeast Corridor is relatively high tax, yet those areas thrive, largely because they have good jobs.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailey View Post
    what Texas has underpinning its growth and economy is massive federal spending in the form of 15 military installations, a booming energy sector and 5 of the top 10 busiest ports in the country.
    And don't forget NAFTA, the massive Mexican border, and the strife in Mexico, which has pushed middle/upper classes from south of the border to relocate to Texas.

    The Texas Medical Center is something like 30% foreign-nationals, who are generally upper class and come there because it's the closest world class health care to Mexico.

    But yeah, the other biggies are obviously energy, the ports and the massive govt. and military installations.

  3. #78

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    Bham, this isn't about states. It's about cities and metropolitan areas. We're comparing Detroit and Houston, not Michigan and Texas.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by nain rouge View Post
    Bham, this isn't about states. It's about cities and metropolitan areas. We're comparing Detroit and Houston, not Michigan and Texas.
    I have been trying to explain to them that part of the reason Houston exists and is as "prosperous" as it is, is because of its location. I'm pretty much done here because I just had two people tell me that the $500/yr difference for probably 20 million people isn't a big difference, so yeah.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by motz View Post
    I have been trying to explain to them that part of the reason Houston exists and is as "prosperous" as it is, is because of its location. I'm pretty much done here because I just had two people tell me that the $500/yr difference for probably 20 million people isn't a big difference, so yeah.
    Well, I guess I could move out of Hamtramck to Hazel Park or something and save about $400 in taxes a year. I won't. Why? I don't want to live in Hazel Park. Am I a typical person? No. But my choice is evidence that cost isn't everything when you factor in individual taste and what communities provide.

    I respect these points of view, but I think they presume that all people love money so much that they'll settle for low taxes at any cost.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroitnerd View Post
    To talk about "growth" in Houston without qualifications misses the point. When a large area is developed outside Houston, Houston annexes the area, capturing the taxes and providing the services.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=445Z1Dc5-Rw

    It's not a great strategy for building a cohesive, dense core city, but it works financially.

    So, unless Bham is proposing that Detroit proper annex the suburbs bit by bit, the example of Houston isn't really all that relevant.
    Won't work in Detroit's case. Detroit will take over old infrastructure, poor industrial and commercial areas (that generate are normally used to generate revenues with few services, in the case of Warren or Livonia there are a lot of empty strip malls and factories generating little revenue, but wasting resources). Ya got to build new or be generating a boatload of redevelopment in order to make it work fiscally.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    I encourage anyone looking for a fresh new-to-you ride to visit Mr. luckycar.

    Good guy with good cars.
    Thanks gnome!

  8. #83

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    Ha. No problem, it is true.

    Am still looking for my whooptie ford f-100.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner View Post
    Won't work in Detroit's case. Detroit will take over old infrastructure, poor industrial and commercial areas (that generate are normally used to generate revenues with few services, in the case of Warren or Livonia there are a lot of empty strip malls and factories generating little revenue, but wasting resources). Ya got to build new or be generating a boatload of redevelopment in order to make it work fiscally.
    Hey, I wasn't proposing it as a solution for Detroit. I was saying that Houston does do it.

    But, hey, don't let me get in the way of another episode of "It Won't Work Here."

    Besides, we've been doing so well with our strategy of showering downtown with tax abatements, tax-increment financing deals, superblocks, stadia and other silver-bullet items, there's really no real problems left in Detroit, right?

  10. #85

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    Fast-growing United Shore needs more space, and now

    Pontiac-based mortgage firm projects addition of nearly 3,000 employees by 2025
    Has 900,000-square-foot building at 750 South Blvd. under contract
    New building would connect to existing headquarters by bridge/skyway
    Here is an approximate breakdown of the costs for the new United Shore Financial Services LLC headquarters campus:
    • Acquisition of 750 South Blvd.: Approximately $50 million, according to a source familiar with the matter
    • Initial build-out of 750 South Blvd.: $25 million
    • Bridge construction between 585 South Blvd. and 750 South Blvd. and future build-out: $80 million
    • Acquisition of 585 South Blvd.: $40 million
    • Build-out of 585 South Blvd.: $60 million

  11. #86

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    It's great to have another financial technology giant in the region, but spreading the love to Pontiac!

    This is exactly why we need a real, grade-separated transit system on Woodward Avenue from the Detroit River to Pontiac.

    Imagine tech workers relocating to the Woodward Corridor as real estate prices along light rail stations skyrocket. Having a boom Detroit and Pontiac anchoring the Woodward Avenue on either side with high paying tech jobs as all the bedroom communities in between benefit as well.

  12. #87

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    It would be cool to see United Shore open an office in downtown Pontiac someday as well. Can you imagine what 500-1000 new employees would do for downtown Pontiac?

  13. #88

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    Keep dreaming...

    The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.

    First, the US HQ is a city unto itself. One could liken it to The Ren Cen but in reality it will have far less positive impact on Pontiac than the Ren Cen's had on Detroit. It's a drive-in-drive-out complex with all the amenities contained inside. I'm sure basically none of these US employees are going to get lunch, dinner, a haircut, or anything else in Poniac during/after work.

    Second, while this is Technically in the city limits of Pontiac, does anyone think US employees will be swarming to live in Pontiac? Again, there's 0 walk-ability, so you may as well say in Troy, Bloomfield Hills, or Auburn Hills since you'll be taking your car regardless.

    Third, I mean c'mon, it's Pontiac we're talking about...

  14. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSortzi View Post
    It would be cool to see United Shore open an office in downtown Pontiac someday as well. Can you imagine what 500-1000 new employees would do for downtown Pontiac?
    Before UWM settled on its current location 2 miles from downtown Pontiac it very seriously considered taking over the Ottawa Towers. Not sure what issues detracted from that decision, but it definitely would have made a huge impact on Pontiac's downtown.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post
    Keep dreaming...

    The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.

    First, the US HQ is a city unto itself. One could liken it to The Ren Cen but in reality it will have far less positive impact on Pontiac than the Ren Cen's had on Detroit. It's a drive-in-drive-out complex with all the amenities contained inside. I'm sure basically none of these US employees are going to get lunch, dinner, a haircut, or anything else in Poniac during/after work.

    Second, while this is Technically in the city limits of Pontiac, does anyone think US employees will be swarming to live in Pontiac? Again, there's 0 walk-ability, so you may as well say in Troy, Bloomfield Hills, or Auburn Hills since you'll be taking your car regardless.

    Third, I mean c'mon, it's Pontiac we're talking about...
    Some of their employees have been relocating into the Seminole Hills neighborhood of Pontiac, and the prices for that neighborhood have shot up significantly in the last 12 months

  16. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post
    Keep dreaming...

    The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.
    Yeah the entire mindset of the companies are completely different. QL renovated a bunch of buildings downtown and really ingrained itself in the urban environment. UShore built a completely closed campus surrounded by a sea of parking where you never have to leave, ever. Even the expansion includes a 1,000 foot closed pedestrian bridge!

  17. #92

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    Pontiac will never by the next Royal Oak. I didn't pass Downtown Ferndale's beauty. Pontiac will remain a sleepy depressing town where you find that next liquor stores and storefront churches in every corner. It's Pseudo-Flint that leads to Flint, MI.

    If Pontiac wants to be like Royal Oak, gentrify it!!!

  18. #93

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    Percentage wise Pontiac probably lost more jobs than Flint due to the decline of General Motors. It will be a long climb back.
    Last edited by Pat001; August-09-19 at 09:26 AM.

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