Pontiac the Next Royal Oak?

[Bham1982]

Michigan is not a high tax state. California is a high tax state; pretty much the entire Northeast Corridor is relatively high tax, yet those areas thrive, largely because they have good jobs.

[Bham1982]

what Texas has underpinning its growth and economy is massive federal spending in the form of 15 military installations, a booming energy sector and 5 of the top 10 busiest ports in the country.

And don't forget NAFTA, the massive Mexican border, and the strife in Mexico, which has pushed middle/upper classes from south of the border to relocate to Texas.

The Texas Medical Center is something like 30% foreign-nationals, who are generally upper class and come there because it's the closest world class health care to Mexico.

But yeah, the other biggies are obviously energy, the ports and the massive govt. and military installations.

[nain rouge]

Bham, this isn't about states. It's about cities and metropolitan areas. We're comparing Detroit and Houston, not Michigan and Texas.

[motz]

Bham, this isn't about states. It's about cities and metropolitan areas. We're comparing Detroit and Houston, not Michigan and Texas.

I have been trying to explain to them that part of the reason Houston exists and is as "prosperous" as it is, is because of its location. I'm pretty much done here because I just had two people tell me that the $500/yr difference for probably 20 million people isn't a big difference, so yeah.

[Detroitnerd]

I have been trying to explain to them that part of the reason Houston exists and is as "prosperous" as it is, is because of its location. I'm pretty much done here because I just had two people tell me that the $500/yr difference for probably 20 million people isn't a big difference, so yeah.

Well, I guess I could move out of Hamtramck to Hazel Park or something and save about $400 in taxes a year. I won't. Why? I don't want to live in Hazel Park. Am I a typical person? No. But my choice is evidence that cost isn't everything when you factor in individual taste and what communities provide.

I respect these points of view, but I think they presume that all people love money so much that they'll settle for low taxes at any cost.

[DetroitPlanner]

To talk about "growth" in Houston without qualifications misses the point. When a large area is developed outside Houston, Houston annexes the area, capturing the taxes and providing the services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=445Z1Dc5-Rw

It's not a great strategy for building a cohesive, dense core city, but it works financially.

So, unless Bham is proposing that Detroit proper annex the suburbs bit by bit, the example of Houston isn't really all that relevant.

Won't work in Detroit's case. Detroit will take over old infrastructure, poor industrial and commercial areas [[that generate are normally used to generate revenues with few services, in the case of Warren or Livonia there are a lot of empty strip malls and factories generating little revenue, but wasting resources). Ya got to build new or be generating a boatload of redevelopment in order to make it work fiscally.

[luckycar]

I encourage anyone looking for a fresh new-to-you ride to visit Mr. luckycar.

Good guy with good cars.

Thanks gnome!

[gnome]

Ha. No problem, it is true.

Am still looking for my whooptie ford f-100.

[Detroitnerd]

Won't work in Detroit's case. Detroit will take over old infrastructure, poor industrial and commercial areas [[that generate are normally used to generate revenues with few services, in the case of Warren or Livonia there are a lot of empty strip malls and factories generating little revenue, but wasting resources). Ya got to build new or be generating a boatload of redevelopment in order to make it work fiscally.

Hey, I wasn't proposing it as a solution for Detroit. I was saying that Houston does do it.

But, hey, don't let me get in the way of another episode of "It Won't Work Here."

Besides, we've been doing so well with our strategy of showering downtown with tax abatements, tax-increment financing deals, superblocks, stadia and other silver-bullet items, there's really no real problems left in Detroit, right?

[hybridy]

Fast-growing United Shore needs more space, and now

Pontiac-based mortgage firm projects addition of nearly 3,000 employees by 2025
Has 900,000-square-foot building at 750 South Blvd. under contract
New building would connect to existing headquarters by bridge/skyway

Here is an approximate breakdown of the costs for the new United Shore Financial Services LLC headquarters campus:

• Acquisition of 750 South Blvd.: Approximately $50 million, according to a source familiar with the matter
• Initial build-out of 750 South Blvd.: $25 million
• Bridge construction between 585 South Blvd. and 750 South Blvd. and future build-out: $80 million
• Acquisition of 585 South Blvd.: $40 million
• Build-out of 585 South Blvd.: $60 million

[Scottathew]

It's great to have another financial technology giant in the region, but spreading the love to Pontiac!

This is exactly why we need a real, grade-separated transit system on Woodward Avenue from the Detroit River to Pontiac.

Imagine tech workers relocating to the Woodward Corridor as real estate prices along light rail stations skyrocket. Having a boom Detroit and Pontiac anchoring the Woodward Avenue on either side with high paying tech jobs as all the bedroom communities in between benefit as well.

[NSortzi]

It would be cool to see United Shore open an office in downtown Pontiac someday as well. Can you imagine what 500-1000 new employees would do for downtown Pontiac?

[K-slice]

Keep dreaming...

The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.

First, the US HQ is a city unto itself. One could liken it to The Ren Cen but in reality it will have far less positive impact on Pontiac than the Ren Cen's had on Detroit. It's a drive-in-drive-out complex with all the amenities contained inside. I'm sure basically none of these US employees are going to get lunch, dinner, a haircut, or anything else in Poniac during/after work.

Second, while this is Technically in the city limits of Pontiac, does anyone think US employees will be swarming to live in Pontiac? Again, there's 0 walk-ability, so you may as well say in Troy, Bloomfield Hills, or Auburn Hills since you'll be taking your car regardless.

Third, I mean c'mon, it's Pontiac we're talking about...

[middetres]

It would be cool to see United Shore open an office in downtown Pontiac someday as well. Can you imagine what 500-1000 new employees would do for downtown Pontiac?

Before UWM settled on its current location 2 miles from downtown Pontiac it very seriously considered taking over the Ottawa Towers. Not sure what issues detracted from that decision, but it definitely would have made a huge impact on Pontiac's downtown.

[Luke09]

Keep dreaming...

The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.

First, the US HQ is a city unto itself. One could liken it to The Ren Cen but in reality it will have far less positive impact on Pontiac than the Ren Cen's had on Detroit. It's a drive-in-drive-out complex with all the amenities contained inside. I'm sure basically none of these US employees are going to get lunch, dinner, a haircut, or anything else in Poniac during/after work.

Second, while this is Technically in the city limits of Pontiac, does anyone think US employees will be swarming to live in Pontiac? Again, there's 0 walk-ability, so you may as well say in Troy, Bloomfield Hills, or Auburn Hills since you'll be taking your car regardless.

Third, I mean c'mon, it's Pontiac we're talking about...

Some of their employees have been relocating into the Seminole Hills neighborhood of Pontiac, and the prices for that neighborhood have shot up significantly in the last 12 months

[EGrant]

Keep dreaming...

The United Shore HQ is NOTHING like the Quicken FOC buildings in downtown, they're not even in the same ball park.

Yeah the entire mindset of the companies are completely different. QL renovated a bunch of buildings downtown and really ingrained itself in the urban environment. UShore built a completely closed campus surrounded by a sea of parking where you never have to leave, ever. Even the expansion includes a 1,000 foot closed pedestrian bridge!

[Danny]

Pontiac will never by the next Royal Oak. I didn't pass Downtown Ferndale's beauty. Pontiac will remain a sleepy depressing town where you find that next liquor stores and storefront churches in every corner. It's Pseudo-Flint that leads to Flint, MI.

If Pontiac wants to be like Royal Oak, gentrify it!!!

[Pat001]

Percentage wise Pontiac probably lost more jobs than Flint due to the decline of General Motors. It will be a long climb back.

[hybridy]

Is Pontiac on the cusp of a development boom?

A new vision for a large waterfront site in Pontiac includes 1,300 to 1,500 multifamily units which, if built as currently planned, would make it one of the biggest complexes in the region.

The vision for the peninsula that juts out southward into the lake features more than a dozen new market-rate residential buildings, including a pair of 14-story mid-rises, plus 11 three- to five-story buildings with apartments and townhouses.

There would also be 50,000 square feet of commercial space under the current plan, which project backers say would cost $300 million to $400 million.

[K-slice]

Hmmm, what's the history of this area? Somehow in all the reading I've done I don't know what was built here originally.

[hybridy]

Hmmm, what's the history of this area? Somehow in all the reading I've done I don't know what was built here originally.

Lakeside Housing projects



older story on site
https://oaklandcounty115.com/2016/10...ke-in-pontiac/

[Henry Whalley]

People probably like the fact that Royal Oak feels like American cities felt when mom and pop ran small enterprises, before Wall Street corporations gobbled-up every iota of economic activity, and before the rise of McMansions, when there was a large middle class living securely but modestly. Ferndale, Berkley, Wyandotte, and Hamtramck have that feel. Young people are drawn to it. But that feel can't be authentically reproduced by developers.

[K-slice]

People probably like the fact that Royal Oak feels like American cities felt when mom and pop ran small enterprises, before Wall Street corporations gobbled-up every iota of economic activity, and before the rise of McMansions, when there was a large middle class living securely but modestly. Ferndale, Berkley, Wyandotte, and Hamtramck have that feel. Young people are drawn to it. But that feel can't be authentically reproduced by developers.

It's not that developers CAN'T build dense economic developments. I still point to Orleans Landing as a great example of modern development done right in almost every way [[too much surface parking but it's well hidden). But cities often disincentivize these developments, or outright ban them through zoning.

It will take decades to return older Midwest cities to the way they were before they were molested with car-centric infrastructure.

[Richard]

People probably like the fact that Royal Oak feels like American cities felt when mom and pop ran small enterprises, before Wall Street corporations gobbled-up every iota of economic activity, and before the rise of McMansions, when there was a large middle class living securely but modestly. Ferndale, Berkley, Wyandotte, and Hamtramck have that feel. Young people are drawn to it. But that feel can't be authentically reproduced by developers.

Actually they are a little slow on that concept or it’s a concept that is picking up steam,Disney started building projects like that 20 years ago.

Look up Celebration.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida

https://www.insider.com/what-it-is-l...ney%20anymore.

https://www.newhomesource.com/community/fl/celebration/celebration-island-village-by-mattamy-homes/131434?refer=msm205&msclkid=41ba8a49325d1cb0f2b8e8 e1aa55b783&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_camp aign=paid

Lots of similar projects like that New Jersey etc. it’s like taking a small town and plopping it down,you can live work and play and ride a bike and never really have to leave.

But you really have to like HOAs because they tell you what flowers you can have on your doorstep,you can exist within your home but everything else outside of it is regulated.

[southen]

Really it is what happens when you give developers too much land. They lose creativity and then they lose authenticity. My only hope with Orleans Landing is that it was done so cheaply that someone down the line can tear it down and build something with proper density for that area. It always looks dead within the complex and none of the retails spaces have been activated.