Oakland County water group calls Detroit's regional proposal 'viable solution'

[corktownyuppie]

This deal is nowhere near dead yet.
http://www.freep.com/article/2014050...ater-mediation

A water group representing 11 Oakland County communities and another group of western Wayne County municipalities said in a court filing that a regional water authority is a “viable solution” to Detroit’s bankruptcy restructuring, potentially giving new life to the proposal and undercutting the county government’s bid to block a deal.The Southeastern Oakland County Water Authority — whose membership includes Royal Oak, Birmingham and Southfield — filed a motion in Bankruptcy Court requesting entry into confidential mediation talks between Detroit and Oakland, Macomb and Wayne counties.

[ABetterDetroit]

It would be great if a deal could get done. LBP should be home learning how to run that walker of his after his usual 4 cocktail lunch, not anywhere near this negotiation.

[Hypestyles]

I'll believe this when it happens. If it happens. There's still plenty of reelection credibility in sticking it to Detroit, throughout the suburbs; LBP and his ideological contemporaries are well aware of this.

[mwilbert]

I'll believe this when it happens. If it happens. There's still plenty of reelection credibility in sticking it to Detroit, throughout the suburbs; LBP and his ideological contemporaries are well aware of this.

You are not wrong, but in this case there is substantial risk of a large self-inflicted wound, and that may make fruitful negotiation possible.

[That Great Guy]

Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties should all merge to form one City called DETROIT.

One Water Authority
One Transit Authority
One Police Department
One School System
One fire department

Go Tigers, Lions, Red Wings, Pistons

Let's all party and all get along

[313WX]

Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties should all merge to form one City called DETROIT.

One Water Authority
One Transit Authority
One Police Department
One School System
One fire department

Go Tigers, Lions, Red Wings, Pistons

Let's all party and all get along

^^^You have my agreement...

[Hermod]

You are not wrong, but in this case there is substantial risk of a large self-inflicted wound, and that may make fruitful negotiation possible.

Good cop, bad cop. LBP is the bad cop and the other guys are the good cop. Just trying to get Detroit to roll on an agreement advantageous to Oakland and Macomb.

[ABetterDetroit]

You are not wrong, but in this case there is substantial risk of a large self-inflicted wound, and that may make fruitful negotiation possible.

Short window. If any dumbass thinks they can play politics as usual with the now multiple federal judges involved...seems like a stupid risky move considering what the burbs have always wanted is now on the table.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Wayne, Oakland and Macomb Counties should all merge to form one City called DETROIT. One Water Authority One Transit Authority One Police Department One School System One fire department Go Tigers, Lions, Red Wings, Pistons Let's all party and all get along

Not at all on the table in the next half century, but I will issue this warning anyway: a Detroit incorporating a large amount of the suburbs would exacerbate and not alleviate regional tension. The majority of voters [[suburbanites) would vote in a government that looks and acts more like the current suburban governments than the government of Detroit [[which is not largely a bad thing). But I can see Detroiters resenting the social service cuts, the elimination of much public housing, the eradication of the "living wage" line of thinking. You can't have the suburbs' money, land and amenities without the suburban voters, who outnumber Detroit voters several times over. That said, I think Detroit's residents would love the lower taxes, crime, and more jobs that would come, although many would never admit it. Of course, neither city nor suburb would vote this in, so it is all academic regardless.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I do think Detroit should annex [[with consent) Highland Park and Hamtramck, though. They are essentially just neighborhoods in Detroit anyway, and incorporating their small set of services into the larger city services seems just a step towards efficiency.

[313WX]

I do think Detroit should annex [[with consent) Highland Park and Hamtramck, though. They are essentially just neighborhoods in Detroit anyway, and incorporating their small set of services into the larger city services seems just a step towards efficiency.

With [[I think) all of them under EM, that may eventually happen. Something like that would be much harder to do with Hamtramck though.

But first, I think the plan is to get each of their finances under control.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

^^^You have my agreement...

The other argument against turning SE Michigan into one giant municipality is that different people like to live in places with different policies. Some people would rather live with more amenities and higher taxes, some just the opposite. Neither is intrinsically right or wrong, just a preference. One giant government would eliminate the variation that allows people to find the community that fits their needs and desires. Local government is the government most directly affected by the people [[higher rates of turnover in city councils & town boards than in the state legislature of Congress is one reason), and most responsive to local wishes. We don't need a semi-state government covering the governance of 3-4M people.

[Detroitnerd]

With [[I think) all of them under EM, that may eventually happen. Something like that would be much harder to do with Hamtramck though.

But first, I think the plan is to get each of their finances under control.

As a Hamtramck homeowner, I would do everything in my power to resist any merger or sharing of services with Detroit, such as things stand.

[Hermod]

As a Hamtramck homeowner, I would do everything in my power to resist any merger or sharing of services with Detroit, such as things stand.

Yes, but can you conceive of a tri-county consolidation with the Detroit having a 15% representation in the legislative body. The Detroit element would just be back benchers [[shut up, bitch, you have been gavelled down).

[EastsideAl]

Unbelievable to me [[or maybe all too believable) that the suburbs are finally on the verge of getting what they've been whining about for all these decades, snatching a big part of our water system away - at a low, low fire sale price too - and it still isn't good enough for LBP and the Oakland County mafia crowd. Good for the southern OC communities for realizing what's good for them and splitting with the county on this.

The LBP crowd, and most of the old-line suburbanites, have always seemingly felt that somehow our water system should be theirs by some sort of divine right. As if the renters should become the landlords because they've now paid enough rent. So, the governance of our system should have moved to the suburbs with the rest of those white folks, and it was some sort of insufferable outrage to now have to rent their water from all those colored people [[who were left running the city that built the damn system in the first place, only so you folks could run far far away and still be able to bathe regularly and not have to use outhouses).

[Hermod]

Unbelievable to me [[or maybe all too believable) that the suburbs are finally on the verge of getting what they've been whining about for all these decades, snatching a big part of our water system away - at a low, low fire sale price too - and it still isn't good enough for LBP and the Oakland County mafia crowd. Good for the southern OC communities for realizing what's good for them and splitting with the county on this.

The LBP crowd, and most of the old-line suburbanites, have always seemingly felt that somehow our water system should be theirs by some sort of divine right. As if the renters should become the landlords because they've now paid enough rent. So, the governance of our system should have moved to the suburbs with the rest of those white folks, and it was some sort of insufferable outrage to now have to rent their water from all those colored people [[who were left running the city that built the damn system in the first place, only so you folks could run far far away and still be able to bathe regularly and not have to use outhouses).

`

Oakland and Macomb could also have run an intake line out to Lake St Clair. Detroit would have been left with a water system with no money coming in because nobody wanted to pay their water bill.

[313WX]

As a Hamtramck homeowner, I would do everything in my power to resist any merger or sharing of services with Detroit, such as things stand.

Interesting, considering your general stance when it comes to these types of issues.

Do you mind elaborating?

[downtownguy]

Unbelievable to me [[or maybe all too believable) that the suburbs are finally on the verge of getting what they've been whining about for all these decades, snatching a big part of our water system away - at a low, low fire sale price too - and it still isn't good enough for LBP and the Oakland County mafia crowd. Good for the southern OC communities for realizing what's good for them and splitting with the county on this.

The LBP crowd, and most of the old-line suburbanites, have always seemingly felt that somehow our water system should be theirs by some sort of divine right. As if the renters should become the landlords because they've now paid enough rent. So, the governance of our system should have moved to the suburbs with the rest of those white folks, and it was some sort of insufferable outrage to now have to rent their water from all those colored people [[who were left running the city that built the damn system in the first place, only so you folks could run far far away and still be able to bathe regularly and not have to use outhouses).

^^^^^^^^+1

[Wesley Mouch]

Unbelievable to me [[or maybe all too believable) that the suburbs are finally on the verge of getting what they've been whining about for all these decades, snatching a big part of our water system away - at a low, low fire sale price too - and it still isn't good enough for LBP and the Oakland County mafia crowd. Good for the southern OC communities for realizing what's good for them and splitting with the county on this.

The LBP crowd, and most of the old-line suburbanites, have always seemingly felt that somehow our water system should be theirs by some sort of divine right. As if the renters should become the landlords because they've now paid enough rent. So, the governance of our system should have moved to the suburbs with the rest of those white folks, and it was some sort of insufferable outrage to now have to rent their water from all those colored people [[who were left running the city that built the damn system in the first place, only so you folks could run far far away and still be able to bathe regularly and not have to use outhouses).

I really dislike the idea that you've positioned this issue as an us-vs-them discussion.

The water system is owned by Detroit -- but also by the banks and bondholders. And the suburban customers are part of the community and should be engaged in its operation too. We're all in this together.

No, the suburbs should not enjoy whatever benefits of ownership financially -- but neither should they be treated like aliens or invaders. They are our neighbors.

Owning a water system isn't much of a privilege. There's some return on the capital Detroit has tied up. And that's fair. But beyond that its just pipes to do a job. Why is this some sort of prize to be fought over.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Why is this some sort of prize to be fought over.

Because some people have comically misplaced pride.

[corktownyuppie]

Owning a water system isn't much of a privilege. There's some return on the capital Detroit has tied up. Owning a water system isn't much of a privilege. There's some return on the capital Detroit has tied up.

And the return on capital is pretty meaningless, because it can't be used to fund other city services. All of that money has to go back into the DWSD.

The real "prize" on this is jobs. And, you have to admit, in a town where 40% of the people are unemployed, that's an important prize. But that said, with the elimination of residency requirements, many [[maybe even most?) of the DWSD employees live in the suburbs. And even more of the retirees do.

So is the political treasure of job powers [[and the cost of the mismanagement that's happened historically) worth $47MM per year spread across all the users and diverted toward a bankruptcy settlement?

That's yet to be determined.

But what's important is remembering that the private contractor just might cost even more.

[maverick1]

I do think Detroit should annex [[with consent) Highland Park and Hamtramck, though. They are essentially just neighborhoods in Detroit anyway, and incorporating their small set of services into the larger city services seems just a step towards efficiency.

I think Detroit should annex Highland Park, Hamtramck, River Rouge, and Ecorse.

[EastsideAl]

I really dislike the idea that you've positioned this issue as an us-vs-them discussion.

I positioned it that way?!? It's been positioned that way for most of my life, and certainly not by me. And the "us" and "them" delineations have usually been positioned opposite of the way it looks like you have them.

We're all in this together.

Tell that to L. Brooks and his fellow travelers in Oakland, Macomb, and western Wayne counties. They sure as hell have never ever shown that they feel that way. And they are showing it again as part of this fight, which shouldn't even be a fight at this point.

[Wesley Mouch]

I positioned it that way?!? It's been positioned that way for most of my life, and certainly not by me. And the "us" and "them" delineations have usually been positioned opposite of the way it looks like you have them.

You can break the mold. Don't live by the rules of previous failures.

Tell that to L. Brooks and his fellow travelers in Oakland, Macomb, and western Wayne counties. They sure as hell have never ever shown that they feel that way. And they are showing it again as part of this fight, which shouldn't even be a fight at this point.

So because LBP is a fool, we should all be fools. Race to the bottom. Don't let them set the rules.

[313WX]

So because LBP is a fool, we should all be fools.

What do you mean by "we?" I didn't vote L. Brooks Patterson into office, as a Detroit resident and voter. So why should his actions reflect myself?

Should "we" all be fools as well because Coleman Young [[according to some) was a fool?