When it's all said and done... Detroit - Renaissance or Continuing Decline?

[nain rouge]

Do you think Phil Cooley will be written about in history books as a social reformer because he opened a rib shop? Do you think Dan Gilbert will be remembered 50 years from now as the savior of Detroit because he opened up an office and moved his suburban employees there? Will the new Red Wings arena go down as the final piece of the puzzle in Detroit's renaissance?

Or is it all a load of baloney, bread and circuses as a great American city continues to crumble? It could just be that you suffer from normalcy bias. It could just be that your numb. You can't drive the length of Grand River or Woodward or Gratiot or Jefferson and tell me that Detroit is a city on the rise.

So you have more places to drink and eat that you feel comfortable patronizing in Detroit than ever before. Is there not also less houses and more decay than ever before? We can't wait for the driftwood in the city's great tide of human misery to wash upon another's shore, so we can fill the empty lots with new condos for the more fortunate.

Is that a grand accomplishment? How will posterity remember us? We let Detroit die, but we saved a couple buildings and erected some Royal Oak-style lofts. I'm not happy.

It's called downsizing, folks, and it's nothing to glamorize. We can only pray and hope for a different future.

[jimmyr]

We will all be replaced by a younger crop of wishful thinkers. Just as we replaced the older crop of wishful thinkers who were certain the Joe, the People Mover or more recently Compuware HQ and Ford Field were "game changers." Detroit will just continue chugging along, but it ain't gonna boom again.

[Dan Wesson]

I know one thing. Very few people give a rat's ass about what I think. What's really astounding is, when they do, it's not what they want me to think.

[animatedmartian]

Cities once paved over farms and small towns calling it "progress". The horse-and-carriage buggies got replaced by a few men and their cars. Praise is never given to those for change we didn't ask for.

[Oddz313]

Detroit has had many "comebacks", after the recession in the 80's there was a "comeback" until people seen a bunch of houses being torched every night before halloween and the crack epidemic and subsequent gang wars started. In the late 90's and early 2000's there was a "comeback" with new businesses,stadiums and events. A business friendly mayor and then a young mayor, the young mayor ended up being an arrogant crook and the city faced a housing collapse and the great recession. I don't see Detroit returning to it's glory days but if this is not just a short winded "comeback", I think the city could make big strides

[EastsideAl]

"When It's All Said And Done... Detroit - Renaissance Or Continuing Decline?"

Both.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Grand accomplishment of this latest comeback is that Chrysler, GM and Ford have not yet been wiped off the map. Even with Fiat, the company is only the ninth largest auto producer in the world. GM has been outpaced by Toyota and VW is looking to overtake them as well.

Detroit has not yet transitioned away from a manufacturing center that also does mechanical engineering. Any talk of ribs or mortgages is foolish.

[jackie5275]

We will all be replaced by a younger crop of wishful thinkers. Just as we replaced the older crop of wishful thinkers who were certain the Joe, the People Mover or more recently Compuware HQ and Ford Field were "game changers." Detroit will just continue chugging along, but it ain't gonna boom again.

Or the even older crop of wishful thinkers who thought the Renaissance Center, Millender Center, Trapper's Alley and calling Detroit the "Renaissance City" back in the late 70s-early 80s were "game changers". I've first heard the "Renaissance City" term back when I was a little kid. It was quite popular for a while too. Many times I'd watch the news where Mort Crim would be reporting on some new cockamamie development that would produce "shops, restaurants, lofts" that everyone should be excited about because it would "bring Detroit back". Some of these ideas were crazy & produced little to nothing like the Washington Blvd redevelopment idea that included the trolley car that went from Washington & Grand River to Jefferson & Randolph and back again and the red pipes that ran in the median between Grand River & Mich Ave. were supposed to attract all kinds of folks downtown. Then there was Coleman Young's idea to put a glass dome over the Woodward shopping area to make it more attractive. Of course this idea was in the 70s when there was still somewhat of a shopping area with Hudson's still open. Hart Plaza, the RenCen, the Millender Center, JLA, Trapper's Alley, the People Mover, the Fox Theater renovation, enterprise zones, the casinos, Comerica Park, Ford Field, the Book Cadillac renovation, the Riverwalk area, Campus Martius & all the new buildings around it, Eastern Mkt renovation, Whole Foods, Meijer, a new hockey arena, light rail, etc were/are all things that were supposed to spur concrete, definite, measurable development that would bring tons of jobs & folks into the city and bring it back. None of them really has brought the city back. Yes, they've had a short term improvement, but nothing long term. There have been pockets of positive areas, but nothing that the city needs on a large scale. The type of investment that Detroit needs to even somewhat come back isn't happening. I don't know if it ever will. I have my doubts. If anything the past 40 yrs have proven is that slogans & short term projects won't bring Detroit back.

[jimmyr]

Coleman screwed the city over terminally. On his watch Chicago boomed and Detroit's dysfunctions became so pervasive that even bankruptcy and an emergency manager can't untangle them. Chicago's progress is so dominant, there is nothing we could ever do to reverse the Midwest brain drain trend. Chicago is a world class city, and is so close that it's effortless for college grads to move there. Best case for Detroit would be a Pittsburg revival, but I believe even that is wishful thinking. So what's the next tier of city we could hope to replicate? An American city as damaged as Detroit has never come back. Please don't compare Detroit to San Francisco or New York. The nearby competition of Chicago make it that much more difficult. We should probably be looking at Grand Rapids, I guess? But they don't have the generations of dysfunction to untangle like we do. Idk, sorry to sound so pessimistic, but it's hard not to be when you look at the big picture. Without bold action, you won't get bold impact. Bold action would be like Synder approving loan waivers to grads who stay in state.

[motz]

The Grand accomplishment of this latest comeback is that Chrysler, GM and Ford have not yet been wiped off the map. Even with Fiat, the company is only the ninth largest auto producer in the world. GM has been outpaced by Toyota and VW is looking to overtake them as well.

Detroit has not yet transitioned away from a manufacturing center that also does mechanical engineering. Any talk of ribs or mortgages is foolish.

Mortgages are something that is not going to go away due to the way our current financial system is structured. HOWEVER, responsible mortgage banking could be another industry that centralizes around the Detroit Metro area. Mortgage banking isn't necessarily the worst and most terrible of industries, just that many lenders [[looking at you Countrywide etc) colluded with Wall Street greedsters to promote very sketchy lending. The industry now is better, but not perfect. Its always going to be a necessity, so as long as the companies we have here are providing needed services in a way where they will not murder their company or the economy due to stupidity, why not?

Detroit is making strides, but to say renaissance is a huge overstatement. I haven't seen this much buzz about the actually city in my lifetime, but as previously stated, there are MANY parts of the city not receiving the attention they need, and this is an extremely huge issue that will prevent any true renaissance from taking place.

[313WX]

"When It's All Said And Done... Detroit - Renaissance Or Continuing Decline?"

Both.

^^^What he said.

[iheartthed]

Has this forum become Detroit's funeral? Maybe that's what it's always been.

[corktownyuppie]

Detroit will never boom again....if your definition of "boom" is 1 million people and growing, as sort of the beacon of the middle class. It will definitely be a respectable city of 500,000+, but the demographic will definitely change throughout that process.

We're essentially going to see Detroit divide up into 10-12 different neighborhoods that are all sustainable with a LOT of urban prairie in between. And Greater Downtown, Indian Village, and Palmer Woods will be the 3 wealthiest "cities within the city".

And there will be people left behind/displaced or shuffled around in the process.

[mwilbert]

Detroit will never boom again....if your definition of "boom" is 1 million people and growing, as sort of the beacon of the middle class. It will definitely be a respectable city of 500,000+, but the demographic will definitely change throughout that process.

We're essentially going to see Detroit divide up into 10-12 different neighborhoods that are all sustainable with a LOT of urban prairie in between. And Greater Downtown, Indian Village, and Palmer Woods will be the 3 wealthiest "cities within the city".

And there will be people left behind/displaced or shuffled around in the process.

I'm not sure about a boom, but I wouldn't be particularly surprised to see Detroit reach a million people again, if I expected I would live to 150. But before anything like that happens, what CTY describes is what I think is most likely, with the stronger areas staying populated/filling out/expanding slowly into neighboring areas and the weaker ones continuing to empty out.

At this point, the net effect is still population loss, but that should stabilize in the next decade or two. At what level I would not venture to guess, as I certainly underestimated the size of the population drop in the 2000-2010 decade.

[compn]

detroit will make a comeback, just like flint did.

[iheartthed]

Detroit will never boom again....if your definition of "boom" is 1 million people and growing, as sort of the beacon of the middle class. It will definitely be a respectable city of 500,000+, but the demographic will definitely change throughout that process.

We're essentially going to see Detroit divide up into 10-12 different neighborhoods that are all sustainable with a LOT of urban prairie in between. And Greater Downtown, Indian Village, and Palmer Woods will be the 3 wealthiest "cities within the city".

And there will be people left behind/displaced or shuffled around in the process.

I could easily imagine Detroit at 1,000,000 again within my lifetime [[I'm 31 now). The reason I feel that way is because I think that Detroit's population drop was in large part "artificial." Although the Detroit region stopped growing nearly a half century ago, and even has declined slightly from peak population, the region hasn't gone through a dramatic population decline like some other industrial ghost towns.

The Buffalo region has declined 15% from its peak population in 1970, whereas Metro Detroit is just over 4% off of its peak population, also reached in 1970. However, when you look at just the central cities the city of Buffalo declined by 55% from its peak population and Detroit declined by 62%. So why did a city in a region suffering from a more pronounced population decline [[Buffalo) contract less than Detroit? There have to be some things at play besides just economics. I have my opinions on what those issues are but it's beside the point right now. The point is that whatever has caused Detroit to decline so severely is less about economics and more about other issues. If you work to fix those issues then it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect the city to rebound naturally.

[Vic01]

Hasn't this already been covered in the "what will Detroit look like in 20 years?" thread?

[rex]

depends on which part of detroit

[douglasm]

I think what bothers me a little bit about threads like this is the general "tone" of people's expectations. No, Detroit won't "boom" again, never the Automotive Capital Of The World. But then, it won't be the Stove Capital of the World again either.

What I hope would happen is that Detroit and the surrounding area [[it's going to be a joint process, after all) retool itself, figure out a good solid direction to go, then go there, maybe becoming Kansas City with a better baseball team. Not spectacular or fancy, just a good, solid place to work and live. That would be fine by me.

[Danny]

The population in Detroit is still declining. This time it is black flight. But Hispanics, Arabs East Indians and young professional white folks are filling in the void in most inner cities where poor black folks and DEAD [[c) KRAK HEADS used to live. Look at the sudden building boom from Downtown Detroit [[Gilbert town) to Midtown. That will the future of our city.

[ABetterDetroit]

Coleman screwed the city over terminally. On his watch Chicago boomed and Detroit's dysfunctions became so pervasive that even bankruptcy and an emergency manager can't untangle them. Chicago's progress is so dominant, there is nothing we could ever do to reverse the Midwest brain drain trend. Chicago is a world class city, and is so close that it's effortless for college grads to move there. Best case for Detroit would be a Pittsburg revival, but I believe even that is wishful thinking. So what's the next tier of city we could hope to replicate? An American city as damaged as Detroit has never come back. Please don't compare Detroit to San Francisco or New York. The nearby competition of Chicago make it that much more difficult. We should probably be looking at Grand Rapids, I guess? But they don't have the generations of dysfunction to untangle like we do. Idk, sorry to sound so pessimistic, but it's hard not to be when you look at the big picture. Without bold action, you won't get bold impact. Bold action would be like Synder approving loan waivers to grads who stay in state.

You don't want us bringing up Sanfran or NYC but you have us in competition with Chicago? Guess you should give Boston the heads up on their "brain drain" problem because they are 4 hours down the road from one of the greatest international city's in the United States and the world, for that matter. With that logic Boston's toast.

[wolverine]

This thread is exactly the problem with Detroit. Overthink things in a bad way. Have doubts about your future, and then minimize your accomplishments. Even the younger generation that's moved in still has this stoicism about this city whenever I try to offer a compliment

The huge challenges Detroit faces are understandable, but all cities face different challenges. It's the spirit of the population...be it a powerful businessman, mayor, local shopkeeper or proud home owner/ block club leader to make change.

[illwill]

[QUOTE=jimmyr;432681]Coleman screwed the city over terminally. On his watch Chicago boomed and Detroit's dysfunctions became so pervasive that even bankruptcy and an emergency manager can't untangle them. Chicago's progress is so dominant, there is nothing we could ever do to reverse the Midwest brain drain trend. Chicago is a world class city, and is so close that it's effortless for college grads to move there. Best case for Detroit would be a Pittsburg revival, but I believe even that is wishful thinking. So what's the next tier of city we could hope to replicate? An American city as damaged as Detroit has never come back. Please don't compare Detroit to San Francisco or New York. The nearby competition of Chicago make it that much more difficult. We should probably be looking at Grand Rapids, I guess? But they don't have the generations of dysfunction to untangle like we do. Idk, sorry to sound so pessimistic, but it's hard not to be when you look at the big picture. Without bold action, you won't get bold impact. Bold action would be like Synder approving loan waivers to grads who stay in state.[/QUOTE



Pittsburgh is super under-rated. I personally think it's the most progressive rust belt city aside of Chicago of course. Beautiful and vibrant city!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/pitts...ning-many.html

[sumas]

Has this forum become Detroit's funeral? Maybe that's what it's always been.

Thanks, this is supposed to be Detroit Yes. I have faith it will see a revival. It will just morph into something different.

[Hermod]

"When It's All Said And Done... Detroit - Renaissance Or Continuing Decline?"

Both.

When It's All Said and Done, more is said than done.