Warren is probably about to be sued over some weird religious stuff at city hall.

**brizee** · April-17-14, 11:55 AM

Folks chirping about their religion are only slightly less annoying than people chirping about how atheist they are.

Still Warren is about to get smacked upside the head for dumb behavior.

The national news is probably gonna pick this up and laugh at Detroit once again.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140416/METRO03/304160106/Warren-turns-down-request-anti-religion-display-city-hall

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-14, 12:00 PM

Says the mayor: “We can’t put up every display that everybody wants because the atrium would be filled with displays,”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2zADQ7K8C

But there is always room for those pushing organized religion.

I would add that the folks chirping about their religion are more annoying then the atheists.The latter would not be there if not for the former. And its not surprising that even in this day and age and outside of the bible belt, those pushing religion are afforded more rights than others.

**Meddle** · April-17-14, 12:12 PM

I haven't read the article, but unless there are pro-religious displays, there should not be anti-religious displays.

Simple fact is, NEITHER should be in any publicly funded building.

**313WX** · April-17-14, 12:27 PM

Considering the town we're discussing, I'm probably asking a dumb question.

But why is a "Prayer Station" allowed at city hall, but not Anti-Religion stuff?

**Wesley Mouch** · April-17-14, 01:15 PM

One needs to consider that Christianity has been close to a state-religion for much of our history. So I am in favor of grandfathering in some religious references in our civic life -- but not adding. We can respect existing traditions while not bringing new ones along with us as we modernize our civic institutions. I just don't see the need for a fight here. No new religious activities from government. Existing traditions can continue to live for now out of respect for our elders. We seem to have forgotten how to get along. It requires some compromise -- not a quoting of a high court decision.

**animatedmartian** · April-17-14, 01:17 PM

It does seem like a violation of the separation of church and state to have a "prayer station" in the city hall. Though setting up an atheist table right across from it is probably the worst way to address the issue. So much for "reason".

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-14, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

One needs to consider that Christianity has been close to a state-religion for much of our history. So I am in favor of grandfathering in some religious references in our civic life -- but not adding. We can respect existing traditions while not bringing new ones along with us as we modernize our civic institutions. I just don't see the need for a fight here. No new religious activities from government. Existing traditions can continue to live for now out of respect for our elders. We seem to have forgotten how to get along. It requires some compromise -- not a quoting of a high court decision.

So basically you're in favor of grandfathering in beliefs that conform to your own.

**cman710** · April-17-14, 01:51 PM

If anyone is interested, you can read the Sixth Circuit's case involving Marshall and the City of Warren here. Undoubtedly, Marshall and his group did this to set the stage for another lawsuit.

**poobert** · April-17-14, 02:22 PM

Who the hell would approve this? Warren is such a fucking armpit. If I walked into city hall and saw a "prayer station" my first reaction would be: what the shit?

So you can pull a permit and get a prayer? What a bunch of hillbillies. Of course a group is going rightfully challenge this. Guess how this could have all been avoided? By not agreeing to do something so stupid in the first place.

As I've said before, I'm a Christian and my faith is important to me. As such, I respect the beliefs or non-beliefs of others and have no desire to force my faith on anyone.

As any person of faith, why would you want your religion tainted with something like city hall in the first place?

There are nearly 250 million Christians in the United States - over 3/4 of our population. There are nearly half a million churches in this country. I guess I don't see the need to throw a prayer station in Warren City Hall. Thankfully I'll never have to go to that godforsaken place.

**motz** · April-17-14, 02:43 PM

Jim Fouts, Southeast Michigan's worst mayor however many years and running.

**rb336** · April-17-14, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by motz

Jim Fouts, Southeast Michigan's worst mayor however many years and running.

he was eclipsed for a while by Kwami

**Detroitnerd** · April-17-14, 03:37 PM

cman: Thanks for that link.

Without a doubt, it is the obstinacy of Fouts that is at the bottom of that brouhaha.

There are many idiotic statements in Fouts' letter [[among them, the beauty, "Your statement that there are 'no gods' and 'no angels' is also not provable"), but this could have been avoided by simply keeping a sectarian symbol out of the display.

If there's any justice, the Freedom From Religion people will get a hefty nest egg for their future efforts courtesy of Warren's taxpayers.

**Zacha341** · April-17-14, 04:42 PM

I feel an Excedrin headache coming on...

**Jimaz** · April-17-14, 05:09 PM

Maybe they could evenly timeshare the "station" among all applicants?

I think it would be hilarious to see a Pastafarian or SubGenius Station there.

**313WX** · April-17-14, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by motz

Jim Fouts, Southeast Michigan's worst mayor however many years and running.

But hey, the people there apparently love them. They've been reelecting him for the past 30 years.

So who are we to judge?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-14, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by cman710

If anyone is interested, you can read the Sixth Circuit's case involving Marshall and the City of Warren here. Undoubtedly, Marshall and his group did this to set the stage for another lawsuit.

They would have no reason to sue if the Christianist mayor didn't deny them equal access.

**Cliffy** · April-17-14, 05:57 PM

I'd be curious to find out how often its used. Personally, I don't care. Anyone can go in there and pray. Muslim, Jews, Christians, people who worship the devil...

**Jimaz** · April-17-14, 06:51 PM

Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion… perhaps around their necks? And maybe — dare I dream it? — maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively.

—Jon Stewart

**nain rouge** · April-17-14, 07:00 PM

If there's any justice, the Freedom From Religion people will get a hefty nest egg for their future efforts courtesy of Warren's taxpayers.

This comment right here is a perfect example of a great wrong in this country. Why should Freedom From Religion get a dime from this, aside from maybe compensation for legal fees? Why punish the taxpayers of Warren for incident largely out of their control? It just doesn't make sense.

Sure, Freedom From Religion should be able to seek a ruling outlawing such open displays of religion in a government institution. But free money?! FREE MONEY?! I see no reason why Freedom From Religion deserves free taxpayer money. But that's America, isn't it? Money for nothing.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-17-14, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

So basically you're in favor of grandfathering in beliefs that conform to your own.

No. They are not my beliefs. I'm in favor of respect for traditions. I think they should be celebrated, not torn down by small thinking do-good ears in search of a cause that mostly upsets good people with mostly theoretical benefit to some grand social cause.

**Scottathew** · April-17-14, 08:21 PM

I used to live in Warren. This move by Mayor Fouts is a calculated publicity stunt with two objectives.

#1 - Pander to religious folks, especially the older folks that tend to vote and by more religious
#2 - Free press

He doesn't care about the lawsuits that will follow, those are paid for by taxpayers, not his campaign funds.

Fouts is an idiot that only cares about himself, his power, and his money and pensions.

**Ben** · April-17-14, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Who the hell would approve this? Warren is such a fucking armpit. If I walked into city hall and saw a "prayer station" my first reaction would be: what the shit?

So you can pull a permit and get a prayer? What a bunch of hillbillies. Of course a group is going rightfully challenge this. Guess how this could have all been avoided? By not agreeing to do something so stupid in the first place.

As I've said before, I'm a Christian and my faith is important to me. As such, I respect the beliefs or non-beliefs of others and have no desire to force my faith on anyone.

As any person of faith, why would you want your religion tainted with something like city hall in the first place?

There are nearly 250 million Christians in the United States - over 3/4 of our population. There are nearly half a million churches in this country. I guess I don't see the need to throw a prayer station in Warren City Hall. Thankfully I'll never have to go to that godforsaken place.

Amen! [[in the sarcastic way) I agree totally. I don't understand why people need a "prayer station". What next, a "prayer station" in the food court at the mall? I'm a Christian, but I think that any person can pray to God, where ever they might be. I think that city hall is a place of government business, not displays of one's religious beliefs.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-14, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I'd be curious to find out how often its used. Personally, I don't care. Anyone can go in there and pray. Muslim, Jews, Christians, people who worship the devil...

But people who don't believe in prayer cannot make their case? Because....???

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-17-14, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

No. They are not my beliefs. I'm in favor of respect for traditions. I think they should be celebrated, not torn down by small thinking do-good ears in search of a cause that mostly upsets good people with mostly theoretical benefit to some grand social cause.

No, you favor respect for certain traditions. And as for those to whom the traditions don't apply, too bad.

**finster** · April-18-14, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

One needs to consider that Christianity has been close to a state-religion for much of our history. So I am in favor of grandfathering in some religious references in our civic life -- but not adding. We can respect existing traditions while not bringing new ones along with us as we modernize our civic institutions. I just don't see the need for a fight here. No new religious activities from government. Existing traditions can continue to live for now out of respect for our elders. We seem to have forgotten how to get along. It requires some compromise -- not a quoting of a high court decision.

Wesley, thanks for being a sane voice of moderation around here. I don't know much about it but the article states that the prayer station has been at city hall a long time and just leaving it be sounds OK to me. People who spend all there time ranting and raving fighting against stuff like this and those "oh so evil" city hall Christmas displays need to find a new hobby. From what I can tell a lot of good and decent people have lived and worked in the city of Warren over the years and if someone can find a little comfort from something like this than what is so terrible. This is what really bothers some people for some reason. If the city of Dearborn wanted to erect a small homage to Islam somewhere I'm sure many would freak out but it wouldn't bother me in the least. With all the greater problems we seem to be having around here aren't there bigger fish to fry?