SMART Bus system’s fate in hands of voters.

[That Great Guy]

Extract from Detroit Newspaper

If $44 Million tax fails, Metro mass transit ends

End of Extract

In just a few weeks, it will be August 2014

Do you know what this means?
Do you know what the ballot wording means?

[Danny]

It means I will vote YES, YES, YES on the Smart bus millage. Mass regional transit means more jobs.

[That Great Guy]

Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART fully supports and backs the $2 Billion Freeway expansions of I-75 and I-94 and the resulting $40 Million per year cuts in operating subsidies from SMART since 1995 to help pay for these monsters.

It was these cuts from the Michigan Department of Transportation from fuel taxes which directly and uniquely caused all the public bus service reduction all over southeast Michigan and not just Livonia.

A peaceful protest at the State Capital in Lansing is planned after the SMART millage renewal is passes next August.

Funding is requested to pay for extensive advertising for this.

Search and Google save the fuel tax org

YES, YES, YES, Danny. Your support is much needed to protest the vast large freeway expansions which take from community transit and the City of Detroit and inner ring suburbs with no regard to putting safety first or decent paying jobs or money to pay for SMART and DDOT

I'm in favor of a 3.5 mil tax mil for SMART. So, tell me Danny? How will a single mother with 3 children working at the Livonia Wal-Mart with no bus service pay for this? You tell me?

A small tax for SMART without federal, state or industry or Wal-Mart money SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCK. And you know this Danny.

Thank you for your post, Danny

Why is Mr. Hertel not on television debating save the fuel tax dot org ?

[Danny]

Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART fully supports and backs the $2 Billion Freeway expansions of I-75 and I-94 and the resulting $40 Million per year cuts in operating subsidies from SMART since 1995 to help pay for these monsters.

It was these cuts from the Michigan Department of Transportation from fuel taxes which directly and uniquely caused all the public bus service reduction all over southeast Michigan and not just Livonia.

A peaceful protest at the State Capital in Lansing is planned after the SMART millage renewal is passes next August.

Funding is requested to pay for extensive advertising for this.

Search and Google save the fuel tax org

YES, YES, YES, Danny. Your support is much needed to protest the vast large freeway expansions which take from community transit and the City of Detroit and inner ring suburbs with no regard to putting safety first or decent paying jobs or money to pay for SMART and DDOT

I'm in favor of a 3.5 mil tax mil for SMART. So, tell me Danny? How will a single mother with 3 children working at the Livonia Wal-Mart with no bus service pay for this? You tell me?

A small tax for SMART without federal, state or industry or Wal-Mart money SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCK. And you know this Danny.

Thank you for your post, Danny

Why is Mr. Hertel not on television debating save the fuel tax dot org ?

Having the Smart bus millage vote for freeways expansions is a misnomer! The Smart bus millage vote is not for freeway expansions it for keep regional transit on the roads. Voting no will eliminate Smart buses on most main roads and destroy regional jobs. This is not a race or freeway expansion matter. It's the Transit Riders United way to Metro-Detroit Area suffer without regional transit. The U.S. Gov't is not going to give their money to keep regional transit going. They say, 'Leave to the American People.' and that's what we're going to be. The Smart bus millage will be strong yes and weak no vote. If you want regional transit out of your list go tell to those park and riders who depend on the Smart buses to get to Downtown Detroit to work and head back home. To me you are one of the folks who contribute to pollution by driving your car back and forth crosstown and wasted over 100 dollars a week on gas.

[Hypestyles]

It'll be interesting to see if it passes.

[That Great Guy]

Prior to 1995, the entire operation of SMART was paid for by the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT.

Today, MDOT has $400 Million to match $1.6 Billion in federal grants for New freeway expansions but no money to pay for the existing large buses they used to pay for prior to 1995. They will have to pay, if you protest for some of them.

The City of Livonia had SMART buses paid for prior to 1995 before the property tax. This makes it a tax shift and the service reductions makes it a tax increase. The reason your NO vote means your tax will not be reduced is because Federal laws prohibit tax shifts for handicapped accessible community transit without first securing permanent alternative funds.

Read the News clip, it does not say SMART will lose $44 Million. That is illegal and is presently being challenged by people like me who want to end the scare tactics and bullying. I also want to end federal and state cuts and fill up the buses. In 2003, I helped SMART program their radios and computers, resulting in full buses on the 285 route and filling up buses on 3 other routes including DDOT

I publicly challenge Mr. John Hertel to a television debate. But not to defeat his tax but to make it work for everyone.

I rely on SMART to get to my job

[DetroitPlanner]

Prior to 1995, the entire operation of SMART was paid for by the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT.

So there were no farebox revenues and everyone rode for free?? MDOT still contributes the same portion of the revenue it always has to transit. The big issue here is that the source is declining due to it being a share of gas tax revenues. Gas is taxed per gallon [[19 cents). Since vehicles get better fuel economy, and people are opting to either take the bus, walk, or share rides due to the much higher cost of gasoline, the revenues are decreasing.

New revenue sources are needed to replace the old or you get worse service over time.

[That Great Guy]

So there were no farebox revenues and everyone rode for free?? MDOT still contributes the same portion of the revenue it always has to transit. The big issue here is that the source is declining due to it being a share of gas tax revenues. Gas is taxed per gallon [[19 cents). Since vehicles get better fuel economy, and people are opting to either take the bus, walk, or share rides due to the much higher cost of gasoline, the revenues are decreasing.

New revenue sources are needed to replace the old or you get worse service over time.

Thank for posting this. You are right MDOT still contributes the same money. Only instead of paying for the 285 SMART bus, they now pay for the HOV lanes on I-75 and the Amtrak line from Detroit to Kazoo. The HOV lanes are to move people faster by getting park and ride buses into downtown Detroit, reduce traffic congestion and along with the I-94 expansion improve safety by replacing old bridges and old pavement.

Yes, we need to raise more money in my opinion also, but the August tax vote coming up is far from being enough, unless you like no evening or weekend public bus service.

I think we should have many revenue sources, preferably from user fees such as electronic toll collections. If someone in northern Oakland county wants me to pay for the HOV lanes to Detroit then that is fine, pay for my SMART bus and I will pay for the HOV.

There is another way though, if that guy in Oakland County won't pay for Detroit or Wayne County people. It works like this, NO gas, No cash, NO ride.

So, NO I do not want the HOV lanes, until people like Brooks Patterson comes to the table. It is just that simple. As clear and obvious as Black and White. Hell NO on the HOV lanes, until Detroit gets the buses back. It should be Bus or Bust but it is not. It is instead money talks and bullshit walks and Detroit has lost too much money from people moving out or not making enough from low wage part time jobs.

It will take a lot more then your YES vote next August, if y'all wanna not pay for downtown Detroit or airport parking. That is a promise that even the most crooked leaders can keep. So, keep up yer YE$$$$$$$$$$ votes.

I'm not joking about y'all paying a 3.5 mil tax for SMART. It's coming soon and if not from property taxes, then from Sales or car registration fees. The federal laws are there to protect SMART and DDOT, if we want to protest. If not then that guy in northern Oakland county will get his HOV lanes and y'all can walk and see SMART and DDOT go broke. Yes, there are people who want that but not That Great Guy who supports SMART.

Thank you for your posts, so far

[mtburb]

And here's to hoping everyone in Wyandotte also votes in favor of service and therefore continuing to provide transportation for the car-free folks. Anyways, this is a brief overview of SMART service in Wyandotte throughout the past 20 years:

In 1994, you had route #110 to serve residents along the Biddle Avenue corridor, routes #125 and #130 to serve those closer to Fort Street and route #185 for those along Eureka Road and Biddle north of Eureka [[and I think there was a route along Ford Avenue/Northline Road back then as well, but don't remember what the number was). That year, DDOT briefly took control of routes #125 and #130 in a short lived route-swapping deal.

Fast forward a decade to 2004. By then, route #130 was no longer running and there was a new route along Eureka, Biddle and Ford-route #160. You also still had routes #110, #125 and #185, although #185 now stopped at Biddle and Eureka, although it still continued westward on Eureka on Saturdays, back when #160 was weekdays-only.

Now fast forward another decade and we land in 2014. Only three routes serve Wyandotte today: #125, #160 [[which now runs on Saturdays, terminating at Eureka and Biddle) and a new route, #140, which has replaced route #185. There is no longer a route #110 and on Sundays, the only bus service in the entire city is provided by #125 and even there, only the northbound lanes of Fort Street are actually in Wyandotte.

[rex]

will it get better if it passes or continue the same

[Hermod]

Never fear, the magic choo choo will come and fill all of your transit needs.


Attachment 23224

[Hermod]

Freeways, we don't need no stinking freeways. Commuter rail will bring the folks from the burbs to downtown.
Attachment 23225

[That Great Guy]

will it get better if it passes or continue the same

It is most unfortunate that without a well funded campaign to defeat the August SMART property tax with a majority vote of NO, things will get worse.

Contact Mr. John Hertel, General Manager of SMART and ask him about the WebSite of save the fuel tax dot org

The future of public bus service in Detroit and inner suburbs is very grim without a protest in Lansing after the SMART tax is over. There is no excuse for the massive MDOT cuts for no reason but to please the trucking industry.

Scare Tactics and Bullying are used to get your YES vote.

Things will get worse if you vote YES but don't tell Danny

The vote is not a freedom of choice but Communism, where jobs are next to last place to putting safety first. The freeway projects are dangerous and do not include bus service but instead encourage overweight trucks and higher speeds.

[Hermod]

The vote is not a freedom of choice but Communism, where jobs are next to last place to putting safety first. The freeway projects are dangerous and do not include bus service but instead encourage overweight trucks and higher speeds.

And our wells will go dry, locusts will ravage the crops, dogs will be born with three legs, and Cthulu will rise from the deeps.

[That Great Guy]

And our wells will go dry, locusts will ravage the crops, dogs will be born with three legs, and Cthulu will rise from the deeps.

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

[DetroitPlanner]

Your constant blame of MDOT is stale. You might as well blame the City of Dearborn or Detroit for this as the impact to all transportation providers has been the same. There has been NO change in how funding has been distributed since the gas tax was increased from 15 cents to 19 cents almost 20 years ago. What has changed is inflation, the State's overall MPG [[up), amount of miles driven [[down), the amount of sprawl happening [[down). It was the poor MPG combined with hyper expansion of development and lack of options that kept the funding of transit fat and happy. It has been on a diet as of late, and like an anorexic something needs to change or it will die. Unlike an anorexic this change has been forced on the transit agencies, and for that matter Dearborn, Detroit, Livonia, and yes MDOT.

If you want funding to change, either vote for more of it locally or tell you State and Federal legislators to get more.

[rex]

Wait Great Guy. What are you talking about? Public transportation will get worse if people vote yes on a tax increase to fund SMART? I dont follow.
I thought if the tax doesn't pass the bus goes bust.

[cramerro]

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you rely on SMART to get to/from work, yet are spending dozens of posts on this site trying to get people to vote no. The stand does NOT need to be taken on the backs of people who have no other means of transport. You approach, presented as a visionary battle of good versus evil, is incredibly short-sighted and misinformed, and will be carried on the backs of those who cannot afford a car, meaning they will lose their jobs as a result of the service stopping. This leads me to question your true motives and if you RELY on SMART or just chose to refer to your occasional use as a position of sympathy when gathering/coercing support for your "NO" vote on this site [[and I'm sure other forums). As I have done on other threads to counter your ramblings, I'll infuse some factual information. Your claim that SMART's service is Federally protected/required is incredibly misleading. Protections apply to a very small portion of those who ride smart, being those under the ADA. If you vote NO, some small amount of money from the State will likely keep flowing to SMART service area communities to aid in the provision of this very specific service. Federal law does not require anyone, be it the State, Feds, communities, counties, or McDonalds franchisees, to provide public transportation. It is NOT a right. 30,000-40,000 people ride SMART daily, and most of those will have no public transportation option if the "NO" votes prevail.

[That Great Guy]

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you rely on SMART to get to/from work, yet are spending dozens of posts on this site trying to get people to vote no. The stand does NOT need to be taken on the backs of people who have no other means of transport. You approach, presented as a visionary battle of good versus evil, is incredibly short-sighted and misinformed, and will be carried on the backs of those who cannot afford a car, meaning they will lose their jobs as a result of the service stopping. This leads me to question your true motives and if you RELY on SMART or just chose to refer to your occasional use as a position of sympathy when gathering/coercing support for your "NO" vote on this site [[and I'm sure other forums). As I have done on other threads to counter your ramblings, I'll infuse some factual information. Your claim that SMART's service is Federally protected/required is incredibly misleading. Protections apply to a very small portion of those who ride smart, being those under the ADA. If you vote NO, some small amount of money from the State will likely keep flowing to SMART service area communities to aid in the provision of this very specific service. Federal law does not require anyone, be it the State, Feds, communities, counties, or McDonalds franchisees, to provide public transportation. It is NOT a right. 30,000-40,000 people ride SMART daily, and most of those will have no public transportation option if the "NO" votes prevail.

Thank for your post

I'm very willing to go on television and state my full name and say that even able bodied people such as myself will not lose SMART bus service should the millage fail. I have physical proof and evidence of this.

Not one single person including SMART employees will lose their job, if a well funded campaign is waged against the Transportation Riders United and SMART.

I publicly and openly challenge Mr. John Hertel and Megan Owens to a debate.

I'm not interested in getting a majority vote of NO, but instead to get the honest leadership most essential to build safe, clean and efficient public bus systems Greater Detroit's taxpayers deserve to have and keep.

There are cases where a transit tax defeat does indeed work to get more funding and better service. That is the case today for next August, unless Mr. Hertel takes my letter and findings very seriously. I'm out to help him out and know and understand exactly what needs to be done and how to do it.

If SMART comes up with a realistic plan to protect all funds in writing with all the facts, not tolerate scare tactics, stop the work of fiction then it is entirely possible we can get a man safely into downtown Detroit at 3 am in 2014. NASA got a man on the moon in 1969 and now we have much more computer power and advanced technology.

I know exactly how to get 24/7 bus service with all full buses and remove 40,000 more cars a day from the monster freeway expansions. I will and can do this and have proven documented abilities to get this done, if Mr. Hertel lets me help him out. I work as a transportation computer technician, thus know how to coordinate all the buses together to maximize our limited tax dollars and put safety first.

[Hermod]

I know exactly how to get 24/7 bus service with all full buses and remove 40,000 more cars a day from the monster freeway expansions. I will and can do this and have proven documented abilities to get this done, if Mr. Hertel lets me help him out. I work as a transportation computer technician, thus know how to coordinate all the buses together to maximize our limited tax dollars and put safety first.

Il Duce: I will make the buses run on time.

[cramerro]

Thank for your post

I'm very willing to go on television and state my full name and say that even able bodied people such as myself will not lose SMART bus service should the millage fail. I have physical proof and evidence of this.

Not one single person including SMART employees will lose their job, if a well funded campaign is waged against the Transportation Riders United and SMART.

I publicly and openly challenge Mr. John Hertel and Megan Owens to a debate.

I'm not interested in getting a majority vote of NO, but instead to get the honest leadership most essential to build safe, clean and efficient public bus systems Greater Detroit's taxpayers deserve to have and keep.

There are cases where a transit tax defeat does indeed work to get more funding and better service. That is the case today for next August, unless Mr. Hertel takes my letter and findings very seriously. I'm out to help him out and know and understand exactly what needs to be done and how to do it.

If SMART comes up with a realistic plan to protect all funds in writing with all the facts, not tolerate scare tactics, stop the work of fiction then it is entirely possible we can get a man safely into downtown Detroit at 3 am in 2014. NASA got a man on the moon in 1969 and now we have much more computer power and advanced technology.

I know exactly how to get 24/7 bus service with all full buses and remove 40,000 more cars a day from the monster freeway expansions. I will and can do this and have proven documented abilities to get this done, if Mr. Hertel lets me help him out. I work as a transportation computer technician, thus know how to coordinate all the buses together to maximize our limited tax dollars and put safety first.

You got me. I visited your website. I appreciate vigor of your angle on this problem. However, your whole case is built around [[multiple references) the idea that the Federal anti-discrimination law somehow requires a minimum level of service for public transit. This is simply not true. In fact, the "Feds" explicitly discourage any comparison of even simple service level standards between systems. Furthermore, the entire Federal Transit Administration "Formula" for distributing the lion's share of capital grants ties your share of national funding to your population, ridership, and miles of service... meaning the less you run, the less share of money you get - counter to your claims of Federal requirements for maintaining service hours/frequency. Lastly, and I have said this before, your own materials state: Section 601 -- This section states the general principle that no person in the United States shall be excluded from participation in or otherwise discriminated against on the ground of race, color, or national origin under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance. This means that WHERE service IS provided, it must be equally accessible. You can meet the intent of this statement by saying, "we run no service and it is accessible to NObody." The idea that you would encourage people to vote NO so you can test out your unproven, unsound, and un-objective interpretation of a few lines of Federal law is irresponsible and reckless.

[Danny]

YES, our wells could actually go dry, if we don't vote to protect our rights.

The service SMART provides is a right protected by federal laws.

A vote of YES at this time is a forced tax increase by means of scare tactics and false propaganda to provide pay increases to those who are afraid of competition or filling up buses with fare box paying customers. Without formal well funded opposition to change this, nothing will happen except the property tax bills in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties will be just a little bit higher.

And you will have water, but will your grandchildren have water? Too bad Grandpa and Grandma were communists? because they voted YES to support taking away people's rights?

A vote of NO means NO cuts in essential service or funding and that is FACT.
I dare anyone including Mr. Hertel to prove this as not being TRUe.

Where is your proof that a no vote means no cuts? SMART bus system depends on local millage dollars, not just federal dollars. I'm voting yes to keep SMART busses on the road. TRU is not going to convince over 3 million Metro-Detroiters that regional transit millages means more freeways expansions. After several SMART millages passes, there was no evidence that propose freeway expansions on any local and highways in the Great State of Michigan. So cut out the anti-regional transit mess. Contradicting regional transit to freeway expansion without any proof is false.

[Danny]

Wait Great Guy. What are you talking about? Public transportation will get worse if people vote yes on a tax increase to fund SMART? I dont follow.
I thought if the tax doesn't pass the bus goes bust.

That is totally true! Without extra millage dollars, SMART buses will run no more in our Tri-County Area. Thousands of jobs will be lost and thousands of disabled people who rely on SMART to get to the destination will be stuck in their areas. SMART bus system depends on small amount of federal dollars and lots of millage dollars from the Tri-County area. Great Guy [[ A.K.A.) Trainman from TRU wants no millage dollars to regional transit. It provided no concrete proof that Michigan's freeways or highways had been expanded after the last SMART bus millage pass. Therefore its evidence is false and I don't anyone of fall for Great Guy's tricks. Please vote yes for SMART bus millage on August 2014. If you don't you and everyone will be waiting a long time for a SMART bus to pick us up.

[scooter]

yes i sagree with you Danny, I been riding SMART fir 24 yrs now to work, I cant drive do to poor health if SMART buses stop, more people will be unemployed trying to get welfare etc.. cost all of us taxpayers more money to support them

[That Great Guy]

You got me. I visited your website. I appreciate vigor of your angle on this problem. However, your whole case is built around [[multiple references) the idea that the Federal anti-discrimination law somehow requires a minimum level of service for public transit. This is simply not true. In fact, the "Feds" explicitly discourage any comparison of even simple service level standards between systems. Furthermore, the entire Federal Transit Administration "Formula" for distributing the lion's share of capital grants ties your share of national funding to your population, ridership, and miles of service... meaning the less you run, the less share of money you get - counter to your claims of Federal requirements for maintaining service hours/frequency. Lastly, and I have said this before, your own materials state: Section 601 -- This section states the general principle that no person in the United States shall be excluded from participation in or otherwise discriminated against on the ground of race, color, or national origin under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance. This means that WHERE service IS provided, it must be equally accessible. You can meet the intent of this statement by saying, "we run no service and it is accessible to NObody." The idea that you would encourage people to vote NO so you can test out your unproven, unsound, and un-objective interpretation of a few lines of Federal law is irresponsible and reckless.

Thank you very much for your post

The tax was never meant to cover the entire operating budget.

Federal Law supersedes County and Local Tax proposals including the August vote. Alternative funds must be secured first not only for the handicapped but for all existing community transit including the large line buses and for the able bodied.

Write and ask Mr. Hertel, if you have any doubt about anything is my extensive website which does prove $400 Million was slashed from public bus service since 1995 to build HOV lanes and expand I-94 in midtown Detroit. MDOT got away with this because no one really cares or has the money to fight the road lobbyists.

I'm sure if my website gets well known in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties that the taxpayers would protest the massive freeway expansion by voting NO next August. This would mean much more funding. YES means NO and NO means YES next August, if you really do want to improve public bus service. So, write to Mr. Hertel and get him to debate me on television.

John C. Hertel, General Manager,
Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation - SMART
Buhl Building
535 Griswold Street Suite 600,
Detroit, MI 48226