So OC is now paying $3M for a study to determine water options

**jt1** · April-03-14, 12:27 PM

I'm starting to find this entire water thing comical.

If I understand it properly, the positions from OC are:

1. We want to pay our fair share and that's it..........except costs to maintain infrastructure, we shouldn't have to pay that.

2. We want a voice on a board to manage DWSD.........unless we need to put a penny into it.

3. We just want DWSD run properly............unless it is run by a third party or sold, we don't want that.

4. We don't want to waste any money.......unless it is yet another multimillion dollar study about a new water system.

So, from what I infer, they want a cheap, maintained system but don't want to pay for ongoing maintenance, don't want to have a third party run or own the system but don't want to have any skin in the game beyond having 'free' seats at the table.

And sadly, their constituents are behind them and think that they are the ones being rational. I hope the entire system gets sold and rates go up [[a 20% rate hike will only cost me about $10 a month) as a big F you to the idiots in this region.

Apparently they don't believe in being careful what they wish for.

**mwilbert** · April-03-14, 12:34 PM

You would need to make some heroic assumptions to come up with an analysis that said that building an alternative water and sewer system would be cheaper than using an existing one, even with a steep markup. Oakland County may be well-run, but any money they spend on this is destined for the business end of that very same sewer system.

**jt1** · April-03-14, 12:56 PM

That's the crazy thing. It is clear that they are well run but anything to do with DWSD just turns them into idiots on the scale of Monica Conyers or Martha Reeves.

**iheartthed** · April-03-14, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

That's the crazy thing. It is clear that they are well run but anything to do with DWSD just turns them into idiots on the scale of Monica Conyers or Martha Reeves.

Because it's one of the few resources [[only?) of consequence to the OC where they actually have to cooperate with others.

**Hermod** · April-03-14, 01:00 PM

When discussing my DWSD bonds today, I picked up the rumor that some other political entity in Michigan is seeking to float bonds for a $200 million water project. No indication as to exactly which entity or whether or not it is in the DWSD area. Oh, and most of the DWSD bonds are insured against loss by bond insurers.

**313WX** · April-03-14, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

When discussing my DWSD bonds today, I picked up the rumor that some other political entity in Michigan is seeking to float bonds for a $200 million water project. No indication as to exactly which entity or whether or not it is in the DWSD area. Oh, and most of the DWSD bonds are insured against loss by bond insurers.

It's Flint/Genessee County. They want to build their own water pipe/system to Lake Huron and cut ties with DWSD.

The reason it hasn't been discussed all that much is because it was overshadowed by Detroit's bankruptcy filing in July.

**iheartthed** · April-03-14, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

It's Flint/Genessee County.

The reason it hasn't been discussed all that much is because it was overshadowed by Detroit's bankruptcy filing in July.

Perfect timing.

**Bham1982** · April-03-14, 01:13 PM

One thing about the DWSWD- it's too damn hard for bathing and it sucks. Why do we have such hard water? Is it from the Detroit River?

I have a friend in Franklin on well water [[in Franklin, which is 100% well) and with properly calibrated softener has great water.

**jt1** · April-03-14, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

One thing about the DWSWD- it's too damn hard and it sucks. Why do we have such hard water? Is it from the Detroit River?

Perhaps it's just happy to see you.

**Bham1982** · April-03-14, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Perhaps it's just happy to see you.

LOL! It needs to be softer and more gentle in my morning shower.

**Gistok** · April-03-14, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

One thing about the DWSWD- it's too damn hard for bathing and it sucks. Why do we have such hard water? Is it from the Detroit River?

I'm curious to know how you came to that conclusion?? Are you using well water??

**Bham1982** · April-03-14, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I'm curious to know how you came to that conclusion?? Are you using well water??

Maybe it's super soft, then? I thought if its sudsy and calcicum-deposity than its hard.

In any case, it feels different bathing in Detroit water, compared to other places I have lived/visited. It always seems to be harsher on skin and more soap residue-y. It tastes fine, but is not ideal for bathing, IMO.

**Hermod** · April-03-14, 03:31 PM

We had well water in Rochester. It was super hard and lots of iron. It took two monster tanks in the well room under the back porch to treat it. One was an iron filter which kept our toilet bowls from turning bright orange. The second was the water softener. When my father would first fill it up with salt, the water was so soft it was almost impossible to rinse after a shower. By the time it needed to be retreated it was almost as hard as the well water.

**corktownyuppie** · April-03-14, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

I'm starting to find this entire water thing comical.

If I understand it properly, the positions from OC are:

1. We want to pay our fair share and that's it..........except costs to maintain infrastructure, we shouldn't have to pay that.

2. We want a voice on a board to manage DWSD.........unless we need to put a penny into it.

3. We just want DWSD run properly............unless it is run by a third party or sold, we don't want that.

4. We don't want to waste any money.......unless it is yet another multimillion dollar study about a new water system.

So, from what I infer, they want a cheap, maintained system but don't want to pay for ongoing maintenance, don't want to have a third party run or own the system but don't want to have any skin in the game beyond having 'free' seats at the table.

And sadly, their constituents are behind them and think that they are the ones being rational. I hope the entire system gets sold and rates go up [[a 20% rate hike will only cost me about $10 a month) as a big F you to the idiots in this region.

Apparently they don't believe in being careful what they wish for.

Just to start, I generally side with Orr on this. I think the OC is making a dumb move financially by not taking a deal. But it's also might be the smarter move politically.

[[Meaning, walking away might result in higher water rates for their constituents compared to taking the deal. But taking the deal might still result in higher water rates than today -- though not as much as walking away -- meaning that they would have to fall on the sword and take the blame for it.

tl;dr? Take the deal, rates go up 20%, you get blamed. Walk away, rates go up 60%, you can blame Detroit)

For what it's worth, the OC has gone on record saying that they're fine with all of the responsibility and even up front capital investment. They're not fine with the efficiency gains from their involvement to translate into $47MM in annual payments to the Detroit General fund without anything to show for it to their residents.

**ABetterDetroit** · April-03-14, 08:51 PM

Nothing short of amazing how something that should be one of the very best assets of the entire Detroit metro area like a shit load of high quality water for all can get FUBAR by all parties involved for so long.
This time OC gets the idiot award for fighting yesterday's arguments and not coming to the table and negotiate the best deal for all the citizens in the region. Just make a deal, get the pain over with ASAP, and make the damn water & sewers work like they should, we're not sending men to mars here L. Brooks

**Johnnny5** · April-03-14, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Maybe it's super soft, then? I thought if its sudsy and calcicum-deposity than its hard.

In any case, it feels different bathing in Detroit water, compared to other places I have lived/visited. It always seems to be harsher on skin and more soap residue-y. It tastes fine, but is not ideal for bathing, IMO.

Hardwater won't be sudsy, it's the antitheses of sudsy

. I spent years with hard well water in the Milford area and most soaps would not lather well and took forever to rinse off your skin or hair. Detroit city water is much harsher on skin than the well water I was accustomed to. When I moved from Milford to a home with city water it took me a while to get acclimated to it. The skin on my face was red and irritated for several hours after showering for weeks with city water. I'm not sure what was causing it, but I assume the small amount of chlorine in the water was the culprit.

**Don K** · April-04-14, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Maybe it's super soft, then? I thought if its sudsy and calcicum-deposity than its hard.

In any case, it feels different bathing in Detroit water, compared to other places I have lived/visited. It always seems to be harsher on skin and more soap residue-y. It tastes fine, but is not ideal for bathing, IMO.

The first time my sister who lives in the Pittsburgh area visited, she raved about how soft the water is compared to what she's used to. My understanding is houses in the outer burbs that rely on well water pretty much have to have water softeners to make it possible to get lather while showering.

**Aerojoe** · April-04-14, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

It's Flint/Genessee County. They want to build their own water pipe/system to Lake Huron and cut ties with DWSD.

The reason it hasn't been discussed all that much is because it was overshadowed by Detroit's bankruptcy filing in July.

They don't want to build a water system they ARE building. The land is bought and construction is starting soon they bought alot of the old Detroit Edision property along M25 just past Port Huron

**Hermod** · April-04-14, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

The skin on my face was red and irritated for several hours after showering for weeks with city water. I'm not sure what was causing it, but I assume the small amount of chlorine in the water was the culprit.

The amount of chlorine depends on how "dirty" the water is when it gets done with the filtration process. Some days, the intake is clean enough and the processed water can go out with very little chlorine. Other days, the intake water is problematic and they have to shoot it so much chlorine that filling up the bathtub makes the bathroom smell like a very crowded indoor swimming pool.

**rb336** · April-04-14, 06:59 AM

At least they aren't paying $3 Reese's Pieces

**DetroitPlanner** · April-04-14, 07:36 AM

We don't know the results of the study. The study could easily end up supporting DWSD as that is the current alternative.

**Hypestyles** · April-04-14, 08:07 AM

"I don't want a penny of tax money from Detroit going to pay for Mr. Brooks' new water reservoir/sewer system. Build a fence and keep the Pilgrims in!"

**1953** · April-04-14, 08:32 AM

I say Detroit send its scrappers to Oakland County to pull up the pipes we've laid there, and let them figure this out for themselves at their own pace.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · April-04-14, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Because it's one of the few resources [[only?) of consequence to the OC where they actually have to cooperate with others.

Right.... And when was the last time LBP cooperated with anyone?

**Wesley Mouch** · April-04-14, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Right.... And when was the last time LBP cooperated with anyone?

Not much of an LBP fan, but I don't see evidence of his lack of cooperation. Cooperation does not mean capitulation. Cooperation does not mean accepting working with someone on their terms.

We all know there's a long-standing disagreement by LBP on how Detroit has run its affairs. I think he's right not to have gotten along with CAY [[equally stubborn and incendiary) or Kwame Kilpatrick [[corrupt and power-mad).

Do you think he was uncooperative with Archer is now with Duggan?