Detroit City Airport

[Meddle]

^^ From Gratiot and Conner to 6 & Van Dyke, I measure a little over 8,000'. From the blue painted areas at the current runway junctions to 6 & Van Dyke, I measure a little over 6,000'.

I guess it would depend on the exact layout, overrun safety areas and whether they wanted to move the hangars.

[Aerojoe]

I went to Davis Aerospace in the late 90's when Kwame was talking about developing the airport property but it never happened. The reason being City airport property was donated to the city for an airport by a family and there is a clause in the deed that if it is ever not an airport the property reverts to family that donated it and there are still descendants of the family that will not sign off on the clause. So it will stay an airport. Not sure how true it is. The other reason big airlines are not at city airport is they did not or maybe still don't have an active Fire dept on the airport property they trucks are there but it is not staffed 24hrs a day. That may have changed now that the Fire dept took over the old Davis aerospace school and turned it into the training academy.

[jiminnm]

I went to Davis Aerospace in the late 90's when Kwame was talking about developing the airport property but it never happened. The reason being City airport property was donated to the city for an airport by a family and there is a clause in the deed that if it is ever not an airport the property reverts to family that donated it and there are still descendants of the family that will not sign off on the clause. So it will stay an airport. Not sure how true it is. The other reason big airlines are not at city airport is they did not or maybe still don't have an active Fire dept on the airport property they trucks are there but it is not staffed 24hrs a day. That may have changed now that the Fire dept took over the old Davis aerospace school and turned it into the training academy.

I can't speak to whether or not that was a condition of city ownership of the land. But, if such a clause exists, then that bugaboo for law students, the rule against perpetuities, would apply. That would set a time limit on the application of such a reversion clause to 21 years after the death of the last person making the transfer.

[ABetterDetroit]

There are lots of ideas in this thread on how to renovate.

Anyone have any on where the money would come from? It would take a lot and a property tax millage sure wouldn't fly so then what?

[Wesley Mouch]

OPEN 6 MILE UP!

I honestly don't want to see heavy manufacturing.

I spent the first 19 years of my life on a street between Van Dyke & Eldon. People are not supposed to fucking live next door to factories and junk yards.

Seriously though whatever they do, open the east/west roads up.

OPEN SIX MILE UP! makes me think about Jane Jacob's comments on small city blocks being necessary for successful cities.

[boater4life]

They really need to figure this thing out. This could be a gem right in the heart of the city 10 mins from downtown?!? What are they waiting for. Buy up the needed land, get the runways bigger and get some passenger aircraft service there. Someone on the city council needs to figure it out.

[msamslex]

Passing along this info.

Free Airplane Rides for Youth.
Detroit City Airport.
EAA Young Eagles Program
Ages 8 - 17 only
2nd Sunday ea. Month
Except 3rd Sunday in May.
[[2nd Sunday is Mother's Day)
10 am - 2 pm
[[Weather Permitting)

This is an all volunteer program. I have a relative that helps out with this program and the Tuskegee Airmen every month.

YoungEagles.org

[msamslex]

Just want to add.
The program runs
from [[April - October.)

[bust]

Passing along this info.

Free Airplane Rides for Youth.
Detroit City Airport.
EAA Young Eagles Program
Ages 8 - 17 only
2nd Sunday ea. Month
Except 3rd Sunday in May.
[[2nd Sunday is Mother's Day)
10 am - 2 pm
[[Weather Permitting)

This is an all volunteer program. I have a relative that helps out with this program and the Tuskegee Airmen every month.

YoungEagles.org

That is AWESOME.

[Jimaz]

I just had to repost this video:

FIRST AEROBATIC FLIGHT LEA

[bust]

Where Detroit would get the money to make the necessary capital improvements would be a major issue.

It's absurd the city of Detroit should be wholly responsible when the entire region would benefit. There should be a regional airport authority like in most other metro areas. But yeah, I know: too many people and municipalities in the Detroit area are stuck in a self-defeating us-vs-them mentality and don't want to cooperate.

[bust]

I just had to repost this video:

FIRST AEROBATIC FLIGHT LEA

Also awesome.

The EAA Young Eagles posts probably deserve their own thread to highlight the topic better.

[Király]

DET is in the middle of a residential area, I don't think the neighbors would be too happy to have their tiny, general aviation airport expanded to attract passenger jetliners. I have a feeling that if DET was located in Grosse Pointe, nobody would be talking about this.

[shoelessjoe]

There is the -- the WCAA which operates DTW and YIP. They were offered DET during the bankruptcy and declined. Considering PTK hasn't sustained passenger service--there is no reason to believe DET would fare any better. TOL and FNT have seen reduced passenger numbers in part due to bleed-off of passengers to DTW. As has been stated before DTW [[despite complaints about fares) is a top-tier facility with non-stop service to well over a hundred destinations on 600ish daily flights with relatively little congestion, few air traffic related or weather delays and plenty of room for growth. There is no compelling reason for traffic to avoid DTW in favor of any other local option.

It's absurd the city of Detroit should be wholly responsible when the entire region would benefit. There should be a regional airport authority like in most other metro areas. But yeah, I know: too many people and municipalities in the Detroit area are stuck in a self-defeating us-vs-them mentality and don't want to cooperate.

[Dumpling]

The I-75 Rouge Bridge is currently being renovated at an estimated
cost of 165 million dollars. It is two miles of elevated concrete.
Obviously, an airport runway is a different application and would need
to be designed differently, but an extra elevated mile of runway could
theoretically be added to DET for what I believe would be about that
cost. Since there are six runways at DTW and there is an average of
5,000,000 passengers per runway, if one can be assured that the new
DET runway would get its 5,000,000 passengers, the economics of the
new construction would probably work PLUS one could theoretically open up
Six Mile as well AND burial plots could remain where they are and
remain visitable though their ambiance would not be so calming and
pleasant [[based on what the underside of I-75 looks like).
Further, changing one DTW runway from a two mile long one into a three
mile long one could make DTW even more of a hub for ultra jets. Planner
Mulugetta Birru used to be greatly in favor of developing an economy
around a busier DTW.
[[I am outlining this vision with a total lack of enthusiasm for it.)

[masterblaster]

DET is in the middle of a residential area, I don't think the neighbors would be too happy to have their tiny, general aviation airport expanded to attract passenger jetliners. I have a feeling that if DET was located in Grosse Pointe, nobody would be talking about this.

But the City Airport, in the past, had passenger service. Southwest Airlines flew out of the airport. Also, my barber told me, that in the 1990's, City airport offered very cheap passenger flights to Chicago and New York that he took advantage of.

[Király]

True as that may be, those could not have been very large aircraft nor have flown very frequently. What's being talked about now is runway expansion that will accommodate much larger jetliners, the size of which have never been served by DET before.

I'll say it again: Absolutely nobody would be talking about this if DET were located in Grosse Pointe. But hey, this is Detroit, so who cares about the neighbors, right?

[bust]

True as that may be, those could not have been very large aircraft nor have flown very frequently. What's being talked about now is runway expansion that will accommodate much larger jetliners, the size of which have never been served by DET before.

I'll say it again: Absolutely nobody would be talking about this if DET were located in Grosse Pointe. But hey, this is Detroit, so who cares about the neighbors, right?

Your second paragraph has a Pointe. Then again DET served commercial airlines beginning from 1966 - 2000. I doubt many who live nearby were there before then.

Not everyone is talking about accommodating much bigger jetliners. It would be great just to see it back open for business for smaller aircraft like the ones American Eagle, Jet Blue, Southwest Airlines, Spirit, Frontier, and Virgin America usually fly.

Perhaps by some measures DTW is a good airport. By others it's not. It's a long drive to get there from half the metro area, it's not served by public transit, it's a long walk from ticket counter to gate, the security lines are horrendous, and most importantly the ticket prices are very high.

Competition is sorely needed. I'm not sure why Delta has been allowed such a stranglehold and why more Detroiters don't complain.

You could improve things by bringing more competition to DTW, but that wouldn't address all the problems.

[EastsideAl]

I used to take those Pro Air cheap flights back and forth to NYC all the time. The airlines itself sucked [[never was an airline more misleadingly named), but there was nothing like rolling out of my bed here on the east side and being airborne and on my way to NYC a little more than an hour later.

[boater4life]

True as that may be, those could not have been very large aircraft nor have flown very frequently. What's being talked about now is runway expansion that will accommodate much larger jetliners, the size of which have never been served by DET before.

I'll say it again: Absolutely nobody would be talking about this if DET were located in Grosse Pointe. But hey, this is Detroit, so who cares about the neighbors, right?

You are correct about nobody talking about it if this airport were in Grosse Pointe. However, you make it sound like nobody cares about the neighbors in detroit around the airport, but there is an airport like 20 times the size [[DTW), where I constantly fly over houses and neighborhoods while landing. An airport has to be located somewhere, I don't understand why your making it a big deal that someone has to deal with air traffic flying over there house.

[fastcarsandfreedom]

Competition is sorely needed. I'm not sure why Delta has been allowed such a stranglehold and why more Detroiters don't complain.

...I am guessing it's the 10,000+ jobs that Delta's hub [[and NW's before it) brings to the Region. It's also the ease with which a metropolitan area attracts new business when such a hub is present. It's really a call on whether or not you want to end up like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Memphis -- cities that now have "competition" in lieu of the lost jobs and revenue that came with network airline hubs that disappeared. There is no panacea--there are only a handful of major airlines left and their market share allows them a great deal of power when it comes to fares, fees, etc. For all the talk of "competition" in this market I have no idea where exactly people expect that competition to come from. The #2 carrier at DTW is a ULCC [[Spirit). Southwest flies nonstop to several cities [[...9 if I'm counting correctly), Frontier [[another ULCC) is in the mix, JetBlue, Alaska -- plus the U.S. 3. DTW is not lacking for competition on the majority of routes with high local demand. High fares on hub exclusive routes to places like Tulsa and Elmira, NY are a fact of life -- routes like that don't exist without the hub...so they're either expensive or non-existent--that's the way the industry works.

[hybridy]

Detroit to invest $4 million in city airport runway replacement

The capital improvement project could start as early as next month, weather permitting, and will close the airport for around three days, said Tyrone Clifton, director of the Detroit Building Authority. Dates have not been set."The runway is reaching the end of its useful life," Clifton said. "It needs to be looked at, evaluated and maintained per FAA [[Federal Aviation Administration) standards."

The city's investment in the airport signals a commitment to the 264-acre property as an airport, rather than an industrial or mobility park, as have been suggested by Mayor Mike Duggan's administration as potential redevelopments. The city seeks to stem losses at the airport, which hasn't had commercial passenger airline service since 2000 and has been operating in the red for many years.

[O3H]

potholes on the runway, bumpy landings

[Pat001]

My wife used Detroit City Airport a few times when they had scheduled airline service. It would be nice to have an alternative to Detroit Metro's traffic and parking headaches - without having to drive all the way to Flint.

[birwood]

City airport could be a real boost to the city and economy of the surrounding areas BUT the main thing is the runways. They need to be replaced, rebuilt and lengthened in order to accommodate any amount of air traffic, private, commercial, business or other wise. Remember you just can't plop and new runway in where ever. Prevailing winds play a big factor in the direct it has to be pointed, plus now, add into the play all the high rise buildings that are now in the landing approach and take off patterns which could cause the pilot to have to climb or veer off as the aircraft tries to maintain sufficient air speed for a safe landing or takeoff. Believe me..I have been on the flight deck of an aircraft [[USAF) during both a cross wind landing and short strip takeoff and it has a severe pucker factor, worse and any Metro Detroit Freeway interchange during a rush hour in an ice storm. Does Detroit City need improvements...Hell Yes!!. Will it ever get them..Hell No!!! Too much politics and greed at all levels of the governmental agencies involved with it!